The Root Cause of All Failure

[Landon Caeli]

I notice that in my relationships and in my observations of life, and in my own journey, that most of my failings occur when I fail to sacrifice my time for the sake of the greater good of those around me.

Lately, I've refrained from doing things I like, and have have instead, begun doing things that are "right", even if I don't want to. I started small, with little things, and have conditioned myself to accept the pain of self-sacrifice, and am using that energy that would otherwise have been anger or depression. And have shifted that energy into forced patience and forced selflessness.

I was wondering if others here have ever considered that the chaos we see in politics, and society could all be rooted in *selfishness*, and I wonder what it would be like if more people would take up their crosses and adopt patience and selflessness as a grassroots movement or 'cause'.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Does anyone think there is a lack of sacrifice in the modern world? Is it a growing trend that will ultimately lead to our own destruction?

 

[Tigger45]

Absolutely, selfishness is inward looking and love is outward looking. Perspective and attitude pave the path to the destination.

 

[childeye 2]

I notice that in my relationships and in my observations of life, and in my own journey, that most of my failings occur when I fail to sacrifice my time for the sake of the greater good of those around me.

Lately, I've refrained from doing things I like, and have have instead, begun doing things that are "right", even if I don't want to. I started small, with little things, and have conditioned myself to accept the pain of self-sacrifice, and am using that energy that would otherwise have been anger or depression. And have shifted that energy into forced patience and forced selflessness.

I was wondering if others here have ever considered that the chaos we see in politics, and society could all be rooted in *selfishness*, and I wonder what it would be like if more people would take up their crosses and adopt patience and selflessness as a grassroots movement or 'cause'.

In politics, the top concern should be for the weak and poor. As for being selfless, even this can become vanity when not attributed to God's Spirit.

 

[Petros2015]

selflessness, led by the Spirit = victory
selfishness, led by the Self = destruction
selflessness, led by the Self = annoying people, being taken advantage of and exhausting yourself

"if I give all that I have and have not Love..."

choose wisely

 

[mama2one]

follow

 

[durangodawood]

oh man, wait until @The happy Objectivist gets hold of this thread!

 

[durangodawood]

...Lately, I've refrained from doing things I like, and have have instead, begun doing things that are "right", even if I don't want to....

This could border on self destructive, depending on what you mean.

 

[Belinda Cooper]

The greatest commandment is to love God and then love people. Loving people means serving others. Yet, we are not God and do not have unlimited resources. We must take care of ourselves too. There has to be a balance. The problem with society is people, the problem with people is the desires of the flesh. We are evil and try to live life our ways, many believe their way is right but we know only God has the perfect way. Surrender to Jesus and make Him your Lord and then we will see change starting with one person at a time.

So yes, the problem with the world is self. We don't need self help, self-esteem, or self reliance No we need Jesus.

 

[Mink61]

I notice that in my relationships and in my observations of life, and in my own journey, that most of my failings occur when I fail to sacrifice my time for the sake of the greater good of those around me.

Lately, I've refrained from doing things I like, and have have instead, begun doing things that are "right", even if I don't want to. I started small, with little things, and have conditioned myself to accept the pain of self-sacrifice, and am using that energy that would otherwise have been anger or depression. And have shifted that energy into forced patience and forced selflessness.

I was wondering if others here have ever considered that the chaos we see in politics, and society could all be rooted in *selfishness*, and I wonder what it would be like if more people would take up their crosses and adopt patience and selflessness as a grassroots movement or 'cause'.

I see selfishness as a 'byproduct' of PRIDE, and PRIDE as the "root" of all sin.

It's good that you're taking steps to resolve whatever selfishness that you have. But as another poster wrote, be careful. There's a big difference between being selfish and having self-CARE. There's a balance.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

that most of my failings occur when I fail to sacrifice my time for the sake of the greater good of those around me.

this reminds me of some of my musings on the subject, most people are selfish, so some self sacrificing people need to function in this system as cogs to keep the wheels going .. even if they're faking it.

Anyone assigned this role is not allowed to give it up, changing the shape of gear they are takes decades, so expect failure if you need other people's help.

that's the basic idea, it doesn't apply to everyone, just those singled out as victims to be the selfless ones. It's a societal construct.

 

[By_the_Book]

I notice that in my relationships and in my observations of life, and in my own journey, that most of my failings occur when I fail to sacrifice my time for the sake of the greater good of those around me.

Lately, I've refrained from doing things I like, and have have instead, begun doing things that are "right", even if I don't want to. I started small, with little things, and have conditioned myself to accept the pain of self-sacrifice, and am using that energy that would otherwise have been anger or depression. And have shifted that energy into forced patience and forced selflessness.

I was wondering if others here have ever considered that the chaos we see in politics, and society could all be rooted in *selfishness*, and I wonder what it would be like if more people would take up their crosses and adopt patience and selflessness as a grassroots movement or 'cause'.

I really like the depth of what you are saying couple with the simplisity of the way you are stating your views.

I agree with what you have had to say, very much so.

When I was young my Dad each time a problem would arise, would take out his little notepad from his shirt pocket, open it, write down a word, then he would show us the word and tap the pad just under the word with his pen.
The word "humble" - he believed all things could be settled with humility, which brings me to my point.

I do believe that "selfishness" and pride (a clear display of a lack of humility) are at the root of almost all of our problems as individuals, as a society, and in each sector you mentioned. We definitely need to practice doing what is right regardless of how painful it might be.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

I notice that in my relationships and in my observations of life, and in my own journey, that most of my failings occur when I fail to sacrifice my time for the sake of the greater good of those around me.

Lately, I've refrained from doing things I like, and have have instead, begun doing things that are "right", even if I don't want to. I started small, with little things, and have conditioned myself to accept the pain of self-sacrifice, and am using that energy that would otherwise have been anger or depression. And have shifted that energy into forced patience and forced selflessness.

I was wondering if others here have ever considered that the chaos we see in politics, and society could all be rooted in *selfishness*, and I wonder what it would be like if more people would take up their crosses and adopt patience and selflessness as a grassroots movement or 'cause'.

No, the selfish and the irrational, which our politics certainly is, are opposites. What's needed is a proper definition of selfishness. Selfishness is self-interest. It can never be in anyone's self-interest to act irrationally. That is not self-interested, it's self-destructive. Now you can devote time and resources to help others if you choose and that's not irrational at all and it is not in conflict with self interest, properly defined. But the common usage of the word selfish is a package deal, combining self-interest with self-destructive behavior. Under the package deal a person who works hard to educate himself and get the kind of job he wants and a bank robber are both selfish. Doing whatever you want, whenever you want is not rational either. Jumping off of a cliff because you want to is self-destructive. Wanting to help someone who is in trouble through no fault of their own is self-interested.

Self-sacrifice is always self-destructive. Relations among men should always be self-interested.

 

[Landon Caeli]

No, the selfish and the irrational, which our politics certainly is, are opposites. What's needed is a proper definition of selfishness. Selfishness is self-interest. It can never be in anyone's self-interest to act irrationally. That is not self-interested, it's self-destructive. Now you can devote time and resources to help others if you choose and that's not irrational at all and it is not in conflict with self interest, properly defined. But the common usage of the word selfish is a package deal, combining self-interest with self-destructive behavior. Under the package deal a person who works hard to educate himself and get the kind of job he wants and a bank robber are both selfish. Doing whatever you want, whenever you want is not rational either. Jumping off of a cliff because you want to is self-destructive. Wanting to help someone who is in trouble through no fault of their own is self-interested.

Self-sacrifice is always self-destructive. Relations among men should always be self-interested.

What do you call it when you don't consider the well-being of those who you come in contact with, but rather, seek out your own pleasures, and your own interests instead, almost always?

...What if everyone was that way?

 

[The happy Objectivist]

What do you call it when you don't consider the well-being of those who you come in contact with, but rather, seek out your own pleasures, and your own interests instead, almost always?

...What if everyone was that way?

Do you mean by "don't consider the well-being" of others that I harm them in some way to obtain pleasure? I would call that self-destructive. I hold that there can be no clashes of interest among rationally self-interested people. But the term rationally self-interested is a redundant term, though necessary in this context. There is no such thing as irrational self-interest. Hence the need to unpack the package deal made by the advocates of self-sacrifice.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Do you mean by "don't consider the well-being" of others that I harm them in some way to obtain pleasure? I would call that self-destructive. I hold that there can be no clashes of interest among rationally self-interested people. But the term rationally self-interested is a redundant term, though necessary in this context. There is no such thing as irrational self-interest. Hence the need to unpack the package deal made by the advocates of self-sacrifice.

No, not harming anyone, but rather not caring about other people's needs who we come into contact with. For instance, what if I were to walk into a gas station with a long line, and while walking in, I don't bother to look behind me to see if there's someone I should hold the door for... And then once inside, I just cut in front of everybody in line, and say "forty on pump ten", and walk out.

...What if everyone considered their own self interests before others in that way? Would the world be a better place?

Or should I hold the door for others, and take my place in line, even if I'm in a hurry, and it will become burdensome because I have a lot going on?

 

[The happy Objectivist]

No, not harming anyone, but rather not caring about other people's needs who we come into contact with. For instance, what if I were to walk into a gas station with a long line, and while walking in, I don't bother to look behind me to see if there's someone I should hold the door for... And then once inside, I just cut in front of everybody in line, and say "forty on pump ten", and walk out.

...What if everyone considered their own self interests before others in that way? Would the world be a better place?

Or should we hold the door for others, and take our place in line, even if we're in a hurry, and it will become burdensome?

Again, I'd call that self-destructive behavior. It's not in my self-interest to act that way. That would be to harm others, i.e., take what is not rightfully mine from them, i.e., their place in line. Again, I hold there's no clash of interests among men and women who do not seek the unearned.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Again, I'd call that self-destructive behavior. It's not in my self-interest to act that way. That would be to harm others, i.e., take what is not rightfully mine from them, i.e., their place in line. Again, I hold there's no clash of interests among men and women who do not seek the unearned.

Of course it would be in your self-interest. You're in a hurry, remember? And there's no law against cutting in line. It would be totally rational in your life, to not wait.

...Clearly it wouldn't be self-destructive either, but rather beneficial to do that.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

Of course it would be in your self-interest. You're in a hurry, remember? And there's no law against cutting in line. It would be totally rational in your life, to not wait.

...Clearly, it wouldn't be self-destructive either, but rather beneficial to do that.

No, it wouldn't. I wonder what your definition of rational is? It would be rude and obnoxious and even if it would not be illegal it would alienate me from others. Living amongst other people is vastly more beneficial to me than living alone and isolated. That is not self-interested. If you think it is go do it. Act like a jerk to everyone around you. Act on the range of the whim of the moment and see what happens. Self-interest does not mean plowing through everything and everyone to get what you want. That kind of behavior harms you. And by the way, I would never be able to do what you say because it clashes with my values. I value politeness, fairness, cooperation, and mutual trade for mutual benefit. I respect others' rights and I expect them to respect mine. If they don't then I don't deal with them. I write them off. Is this really so hard to understand?

 

[Landon Caeli]

No, it wouldn't. I wonder what your definition of rational is? It would be rude and obnoxious and even if it would not be illegal it would alienate me from others. Living amongst other people is vastly more beneficial to me than living alone and isolated. That is not self-interested. If you think it is go do it. Act like a jerk to everyone around you. Act on the range of the whim of the moment and see what happens. Self-interest does not mean plowing through everything and everyone to get what you want. That kind of behavior harms you. And by the way, I would never be able to do what you say because it clashes with my values. I value politeness, fairness, cooperation, and mutual trade for mutual benefit. I respect others' rights and I expect them to respect mine. If they don't then I don't deal with them. I write them off. Is this really so hard to understand?

Not hard to understand. I just don't know that I agree with the selfish/irrational dichotomy that's being presented.... I just feel like we're redefining the term "selfish" to mean something it traditionally hasn't, and I don’t understand why.

...But as far as your values and perceptions on what can be perceived as "obnoxious" or "rude", I tend to agree. I'm also not sure we agree on how to properly define "rational" though - I tend to view what's rational as something much more subjective to various circumstances, which can change in different situations, but then, these are just semantical differences, whereas our actual understanding of things is probably very similar.