The Quick and the Dead

[Dale]

The Apostles' Creed, Traditional English Version


I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.



As a child, or even a teen, I had no idea what “the quick and the dead” meant. It sounded like a phrase out of a war movie. It sounds like the Bible is saying that anyone who doesn't move fast enough will be dead.


If “the quick and the dead” sounds like it would be a good title for a James Bond movie, there are at least four movies using that title. There are also several novels with that title, including westerns and detective stories.


The Modern English Version of the Apostles' Creed changes “the quick and the dead” to “the living and the dead.” This is far less distracting and more understandable.


The only other significant change between the Traditional and Modern versions of The Apostles' Creed has to do with the Descent into Hell. The Traditional version says that Christ “descended into hell”. The Modern version says that Christ “descended to the dead.”




The Apostles' Creed, Modern English Version




I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.






*



*

 

[ebedmelech]

The Apostles' Creed, Traditional English Version

The "quick" are all who have been made alive in Christ. Remember all died in Adam as a result of his sin, he died spiritually. Those whom come to Christ are "quickened" or made alive in Christ.

 

[Dale]

The "quick" are all who have been made alive in Christ. Remember all died in Adam as a result of his sin, he died spiritually. Those whom come to Christ are "quickened" or made alive in Christ.

I would have thought that the "quick" were simply those who are still in this world, who have not yet died. You are saying that it refers to spiritual life and not bodily life. I'm not sure that helps us to get the meaning. The key point seems to be that all will be judged, both those who are still living at the time of the Second Coming and those who are not.


*

*

 

[Dale]

The phrase “the quick and the dead” did not originate with the English version of the Apostles' Creed. It is found in the King James Bible.



[Peter says,] And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Acts 10: 42 KJV


He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.
Acts 10: 42 NIV; RSV seems to be identical to the NIV.


This is an excellent example of how the Elizabethan English of the King James Bible is barely understandable at best.


*


*

 

[ebedmelech]

The phrase “the quick and the dead” did not originate with the English version of the Apostles' Creed. It is found in the King James Bible.



[Peter says,] And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Acts 10: 42 KJV


He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.
Acts 10: 42 NIV; RSV seems to be identical to the NIV.


This is an excellent example of how the Elizabethan English of the King James Bible is barely understandable at best.


*


*

To "quicken" is to "make alive"...the term is used in referring to coming to life in Christ.

A classic verse is Ephesians 2:5 in the KJV:
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
Now...take it step further in the Greek...the word "quickened" is the Greek word "syzōopoieō"

You'll find that here:
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon :: G4806

 

[disciple1938]

ebedmelech I am sorry but you are wrong . In the old english quick means living. All are saying the same thing the quick and dead and the living and dead are the same. When He comes He will judge both those still living in the flesh and those who have died, ergo the dead. I don't see any problem here at all and I for one prefer the King James version for a number of reasons. I don't say it's superior, just that I prefer it. If you can read Shakespear and enjoy it you would have no problem at all reading KJV and other old texts. But Quick or (living) means those who are still alive in their PHYSICAL BODIES. "The Lord shall descend from heaven and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive (quick)and remain will be changed in the twinkling of an eye". Love and peace everyone in christ's name. selah.

 

[Knee V]

"Quick" is just an archaic word for "living" or "alive".

Today we use the word "hell" differently than it was historically used. Historically, "hell" was the equivalent of "sheol" and "hades", and basically meant "where the dead are". It is etymologically related to the words "hole", "hill", and "hall". The idea comes from rhe ancient Germanic people burying their dead in "hole" in the ground, or in a "hill", or in a cave whose insides look like "halls". All those words come from the same ancient Proto-Indo-European word *kel*. "Hell" is just the historic English word for "the abode of the dead". Thus, saying "and he descended to the dead" is conceptually the exact same thing and captures the meaning better than the word "hell", since "hell" now carries a lot of theological baggage that it did not carry in the past.

 

[ebedmelech]

ebedmelech I am sorry but you are wrong . In the old english quick means living. All are saying the same thing the quick and dead and the living and dead are the same. When He comes He will judge both those still living in the flesh and those who have died, ergo the dead. I don't see any problem here at all and I for one prefer the King James version for a number of reasons. I don't say it's superior, just that I prefer it. If you can read Shakespear and enjoy it you would have no problem at all reading KJV and other old texts. But Quick or (living) means those who are still alive in their PHYSICAL BODIES. "The Lord shall descend from heaven and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive (quick)and remain will be changed in the twinkling of an eye". Love and peace everyone in christ's name. selah.

I provided the proof with the Greek word used for "quicken" and the definition of the word.

Here it is once more:
To "quicken" is to "make alive"...the term is used in referring to coming to life in Christ.

A classic verse is Ephesians 2:5 in the KJV:
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
Now...take it step further in the Greek...the word "quickened" is the Greek word "syzōopoieō"

You'll find that here:
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon :: G4806

What you must understand is "the quick" in the Apostles Creed is used spiritually it does mean "live" but the context should tell you it means 'Spiritually alive" and "spiritually dead"

Remember Jesus came to "GIVE US LIFE"...that life is by His Spirit.

"If any man have not THE SPIRIT OF GOD, he is NONE OF HIS"...that's the difference in the "quick and the dead."

May God help you to see it!

 

[Dale]

I provided the proof with the Greek word used for "quicken" and the definition of the word.

Here it is once more:
To "quicken" is to "make alive"...the term is used in referring to coming to life in Christ.

A classic verse is Ephesians 2:5 in the KJV:
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
Now...take it step further in the Greek...the word "quickened" is the Greek word "syzōopoieō"

You'll find that here:
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon :: G4806

What you must understand is "the quick" in the Apostles Creed is used spiritually it does mean "live" but the context should tell you it means 'Spiritually alive" and "spiritually dead"

Remember Jesus came to "GIVE US LIFE"...that life is by His Spirit.

"If any man have not THE SPIRIT OF GOD, he is NONE OF HIS"...that's the difference in the "quick and the dead."

May God help you to see it!

Ebedmelech,

You seem to be confusing "quick" and "quickened.
Quick = Alive
Quickened = To Revive or Make Alive

Both of these terms occur in the KJV New Testament. Both of these can be confusing to modern readers.

In the Apostles' Creed, when Christ returns for the Final Judgment He will not be offering "quickening" or making alive by saving grace. At the Final Judgment He will be pronouncing judgment on the Saved and the Unsaved.

Either way, Christ will judge the living and the dead, or the Saved and the Unsaved. All will answer to Christ at the Final Judgment.

*

*

 

[Dale]

The phrase “the quick and the dead” is also found in the Epistle of First Peter, in the King James Bible.


4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
--1 Peter 4: 4-5 KJV


4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you. 5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
--1 Peter 4: 4-5 NIV


4 They are surprised that you do not now join them in the same wild profligacy, and they abuse you; 5 but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
--1 Peter 4:4-5 RSV



The modern translations are much clearer, carrying much less baggage than the KJV.



*
*

 

[ebedmelech]

Ebedmelech,

You seem to be confusing "quick" and "quickened.
Quick = Alive
Quickened = To Revive or Make Alive

Both of these terms occur in the KJV New Testament. Both of these can be confusing to modern readers.

In the Apostles' Creed, when Christ returns for the Final Judgment He will not be offering "quickening" or making alive by saving grace. At the Final Judgment He will be pronouncing judgment on the Saved and the Unsaved.

Either way, Christ will judge the living and the dead, or the Saved and the Unsaved. All will answer to Christ at the Final Judgment.

*

*

How am I confusing them...

I think the issue here is you understanding the use of the two:

"Quickened" is basically speaking of being made alive by the Spirit of God.

"Quick" is the state of every believer...they are alive in Christ.

I use the NASB...so to make my point I will compare NASB and KJV verses using "quick" and "quickened"

Romans 4:17 KJV:
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

NASB:
17 (as it is written, “A father of many nations have I made you&#8221 in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

Romans 8:11 KJV:
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

NASB:
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 15:36 KJV:
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

NASB:
36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV:
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

NASB:
45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Ephesians 2:5 KJV:
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

NASB:
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

"Quick" and quicken(ed)..are both words that apply to coming to life in Christ Spiritually.

 

[Dale]

The “quick and the dead” phrase also appears in Second Timothy.




4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
--2 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV




4:1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage —with great patience and careful instruction.
--2 Timothy 4: 1-2 NIV



The second verse in the same Chapter is almost equally confusing in the KJV.


“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.” --2 Timothy 4:2 KJV


What does “be instant in season, out of season” mean? The connection between suffering and doctrine is also confusing, especially at first glance. Here, in one verse, the Christian is told to “be instant ...with all long suffering”. Small wonder that people who read their Bibles every day still didn't always understand what they were reading.


“Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage —with great patience and careful instruction.” --2 Timothy 4:2 NIV


The NIV is much more clear, and achieves this mainly by changing two of the KJV's words. “Instant” becomes “be prepared,” and “doctrine” becomes “careful instruction.”



*



*

 

[ebedmelech]

The “quick and the dead” phrase also appears in Second Timothy.




4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
--2 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV




4:1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage —with great patience and careful instruction.
--2 Timothy 4: 1-2 NIV



The second verse in the same Chapter is almost equally confusing in the KJV.


“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.” --2 Timothy 4:2 KJV


What does “be instant in season, out of season” mean? The connection between suffering and doctrine is also confusing, especially at first glance. Here, in one verse, the Christian is told to “be instant ...with all long suffering”. Small wonder that people who read their Bibles every day still didn't always understand what they were reading.


“Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage —with great patience and careful instruction.” --2 Timothy 4:2 NIV


The NIV is much more clear, and achieves this mainly by changing two of the KJV's words. “Instant” becomes “be prepared,” and “doctrine” becomes “careful instruction.”



*



*

These are reasons for modern translations, the change of words over time.

Take the word "quick"...today when a person says "quick" the primary meaning is fast.

Or...for instance take when the KJV says of Abraham "the man waxed great". Today "waxed" doesn't mean the growth of one economically.

 

[Knee V]

I would have never taken "quick" to be such a controversial word...

 

[Dale]

I would have never taken "quick" to be such a controversial word...

It's only controversial to me because it can be so easily misunderstood, or simply not understood.


*

*

 

[Priest4Him]

The Apostles' Creed, Traditional English Version


I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.



As a child, or even a teen, I had no idea what “the quick and the dead” meant. It sounded like a phrase out of a war movie. It sounds like the Bible is saying that anyone who doesn't move fast enough will be dead.


If “the quick and the dead” sounds like it would be a good title for a James Bond movie, there are at least four movies using that title. There are also several novels with that title, including westerns and detective stories.


The Modern English Version of the Apostles' Creed changes “the quick and the dead” to “the living and the dead.” This is far less distracting and more understandable.


The only other significant change between the Traditional and Modern versions of The Apostles' Creed has to do with the Descent into Hell. The Traditional version says that Christ “descended into hell”. The Modern version says that Christ “descended to the dead.”




The Apostles' Creed, Modern English Version




I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.






*



*

first of all of course, the apostles’ creed is not Scripture.
The apostles’ creed was sort of a summary of faith. Now the word “hell” does not always mean a place of suffering and torment.

If you understand that the word “hell” means the grave and it says Jesus descended into “hell”, according to the prophecy of David, well Jesus did go to the grave.

Some people believe that when Jesus died on the cross He didn’t really die, but Christ entered a new dimension and He went and preached to spirits that were being tortured by the devil in Hades to give them another chance. That cannot be supported from the Bible. The Bible is very clear that this life is our only probation. ‘It is appointed unto man [Hebrews tells us] once to die, after this, the Judgment.’ The idea that once you die you get a second chance to accept salvation is totally un-biblical.

Now, there is a verse in the Bible that some people take it wrong; Is in 1 Pet. 3:19 where it says " .... he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" but if you should keep reading the next verse; That’s talking about the Lord preaching to those who are in spiritual prison back in the days of Noah. It’s not talking about going to people who are dead.

He did go to the grave. Remember the word “hell” in most cases in the Bible the word “hell”, in the Old Testament especially, is “Shehole” and it means “the grave”. That’s all it means.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

These are reasons for modern translations, the change of words over time.

Take the word "quick"...today when a person says "quick" the primary meaning is fast.

Or...for instance take when the KJV says of Abraham "the man waxed great". Today "waxed" doesn't mean the growth of one economically.

I would have never taken "quick" to be such a controversial word...

The moon waxes, it visually becomes full and large; it wains, becomes less full, becomes visually smaller.

Quicksand is round particles, when wet, becomes unstable and moves. Dead sand is sharp particles, is stable and does not move when wet.

These words are still in use, in their original context today.

The Quick and the Dead...
This is My Town (The Quick and The Dead movie).wmv - YouTube

 

[Dale]

first of all of course, the apostles’ creed is not Scripture.
The apostles’ creed was sort of a summary of faith. Now the word “hell” does not always mean a place of suffering and torment.

If you understand that the word “hell” means the grave and it says Jesus descended into “hell”, according to the prophecy of David, well Jesus did go to the grave.

Some people believe that when Jesus died on the cross He didn’t really die, but Christ entered a new dimension and He went and preached to spirits that were being tortured by the devil in Hades to give them another chance. That cannot be supported from the Bible. The Bible is very clear that this life is our only probation. ‘It is appointed unto man [Hebrews tells us] once to die, after this, the Judgment.’ The idea that once you die you get a second chance to accept salvation is totally un-biblical.

Now, there is a verse in the Bible that some people take it wrong; Is in 1 Pet. 3:19 where it says " .... he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" but if you should keep reading the next verse; That’s talking about the Lord preaching to those who are in spiritual prison back in the days of Noah. It’s not talking about going to people who are dead.

He did go to the grave. Remember the word “hell” in most cases in the Bible the word “hell”, in the Old Testament especially, is “Shehole” and it means “the grave”. That’s all it means.

I have never believed that Jesus descended into hell and preached to those imprisoned there between the Cruxifixion and the Resurrection. However, traditionally, many did hold to this belief. Some hold that Old Testament saints were imprisoned there waiting the coming of Christ.

More recently, there is something called the Word-Faith movement, which includes many televangelists. This belief is quite bizarre and is an excellent reason not to listen to televangelists. They do take the notion of a Descent into Hell with great seriousness. For instance, people in the family that owns the Trinity Broadcasting Network have said things like "Jesus went to hell for your sins."

I'm glad to see that the Modern English version of the Apostles' Creed corrects this error, removing the notion of a Descent into Hell as a basic tenet of Christianity.

*

*

 

[Knee V]

I have never believed that Jesus descended into hell and preached to those imprisoned there between the Cruxifixion and the Resurrection. However, traditionally, many did hold to this belief. Some hold that Old Testament saints were imprisoned there waiting the coming of Christ.

More recently, there is something called the Word-Faith movement, which includes many televangelists. This belief is quite bizarre and is an excellent reason not to listen to televangelists. They do take the notion of a Descent into Hell with great seriousness. For instance, people in the family that owns the Trinity Broadcasting Network have said things like "Jesus went to hell for your sins."

I'm glad to see that the Modern English version of the Apostles' Creed corrects this error, removing the notion of a Descent into Hell as a basic tenet of Christianity.

*

*

Those WoF folk are also defining "hell" incorrectly, according to the "new" definition of a place of fiery torment, instead of its true definition of the equivalent of sheol/hades, "the abode of the dead".

 

[Dale]

The moon waxes, it visually becomes full and large; it wains, becomes less full, becomes visually smaller.

Quicksand is round particles, when wet, becomes unstable and moves. Dead sand is sharp particles, is stable and does not move when wet.

These words are still in use, in their original context today.]


I don't know anyone who would associate the Elizabethan use of "quick" with quicksand.

You call ordinary sand "dead sand," but this "dead sand" is quite safe. In contrast, quicksand is deadly.

I don't think your explanation adds any clarity at all.

*

*