The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7

[BobRyan]

Daniel 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

The Ancient of Days --- sinless
Those attending Him -- sinless

"Investigate" facts recorded in books
The court sat ... the books were opened
-- the action of the sinless beings described there.
Myriads standing before Him - are standing for service - His angels.

PreAdvent "Judgment"
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Saints are subjects in the future judgment
and a judgment was made in favor of the saints

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Everyone in that courtroom - sinless beings.


But if you hold scripture at a "sufficient" distance you could simply ignore all that and imagine that Daniel 7 was written by "Seventh-day Adventists" so the "details" it presents can be ignored.

First, there is NO such thing as "Investigative Judgment," it is an exclusive teaching of Seventh-Day Adventists which is not found in the Bible.

Its the Great White throne one from Revelation 20, and NO Christian will be found there!

Daniel 7 is not the GWT in Rev 20 and your own statement disproves your argument because in Daniel 7 the text says the saints are subjects of that judgment (so it is 2 Cor 5:10 not Rev 20) and as even you admit - the saints are not subjects of the Rev 20 judgment after the 1000 years.

The judgment there is for all of the lost sinners, none of the saved ones!

True of Rev 20 ... not true of Daniel 7 where "judgment is passed in favor of the saints"

============================

So what's this "investigative judgement" thing?

Dan 7:1-8 provides a time frame for it - by progressing through 4 world empires - to let the reader know that the judgment takes place some time after the fall of the pagan Roman empire. Daniel is writing chapter 7 in the middle of the 6th century B.C. Pagan Rome does not fall entirely until sometime in the 5th century A.D.

23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’ (i.e. the second coming of Christ)

The Judgment completes before the second coming. Once it does complete - we have the second coming.

Thus in Rev 14:6-7 "having an everlasting Gospel to preach to every nation saying... the hour of His judgment HAS come..."

And so it is "pre advent" and in vs 9-10 it is a matter of looking into the "details" of what is written in the books "The court sat and the books were opened"

And the subject of that judgment includes the saints "Judgment was passed in favor of the saints" Dan 7:22

It proceeds along the lines that Paul defines for us in Romans 2-- so everything is open and above board..."no partiality with God" Rom 2:11

 

[BobRyan]

Heb 8:1 tells us that the "main point" is the work of Christ in that heavenly sanctuary.

Daniel 7 tells us that the judgment is - pre-advent. and that it is based on the content of what is in "the books" of heaven. (Call it "investigative").

Daniel 7 - says that the result of the pre-advent investigative judgment is that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints"

Romans 2 - details the process followed in judgment that differentiates between the saved and the lost.

None of that is arguing that God does not already know the future.

Daniel 7 says that in the courtroom are the "myriads and myriads" of sinless beings. And that "the court sat and the books were opened"..

It is not a matter of "God trying to figure something out" - rather like the case of the book of Job - it is God demonstrating something "to the group".

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. (Isaiah 44:22)

Notice how in Isaiah 44 it is "past tense"? (hint: that is before the cross)

And in Ezek 28 -- Satan has already been consumed - reduced to ashes
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.

And when God speaks to Abraham "I have made you" a father of many nations when in fact at the time - Abraham had none.

Moses and Elijah stand "with Christ" in glorified form in Matthew 17 - on the mount of transfiguration BEFORE the cross. Fully forgiven before the blood of Christ had been shed. For Christ is the "Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" - the benefits of that sacrifice applied all the way back to Adam under the "ONE" Gospel of Gal 1:6-9, preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 and the basis of the new birth, forgiveness and justification in all ages.

============================

Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

That was the Bible.

This next bit is mere creative writing

The Bible teaches that Christians shall be examined for their good works, in order to see if eternal rewards are kept/lost, but NEVER as to if keeping eternal life or not! !

Hello Bob.

You said.

=======================
Bob:
Daniel 7 - (which apparently you are not reading) says that the result of the pre-advent investigative judgment is that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints"
======================

I read that text (Daniel 7:10), where does that verse say 'sinless beings'. May I ask what translation your reading from?

Daniel 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

The Ancient of Days --- sinless
Those attending Him -- sinless

"Investigate" facts recorded in books
The court sat ... the books were opened
-- the action of the sinless beings described there.
Myriads standing before Him - are standing for service - His angels.

PreAdvent "Judgment"
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Saints are subjects in the future judgment
and a judgment was made in favor of the saints

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Everyone in that courtroom - sinless beings.

 

[Major1]

Heb 8:1 tells us that the "main point" is the work of Christ in that heavenly sanctuary.

Daniel 7 tells us that the judgment is - pre-advent. and that it is based on the content of what is in "the books" of heaven. (Call it "investigative").

Daniel 7 - says that the result of the pre-advent investigative judgment is that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints"

Romans 2 - details the process followed in judgment that differentiates between the saved and the lost.

None of that is arguing that God does not already know the future.

Daniel 7 says that in the courtroom are the "myriads and myriads" of sinless beings. And that "the court sat and the books were opened"..

It is not a matter of "God trying to figure something out" - rather like the case of the book of Job - it is God demonstrating something "to the group".

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. (Isaiah 44:22)

Notice how in Isaiah 44 it is "past tense"? (hint: that is before the cross)

And in Ezek 28 -- Satan has already been consumed - reduced to ashes
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.

And when God speaks to Abraham "I have made you" a father of many nations when in fact at the time - Abraham had none.

Moses and Elijah stand "with Christ" in glorified form in Matthew 17 - on the mount of transfiguration BEFORE the cross. Fully forgiven before the blood of Christ had been shed. For Christ is the "Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" - the benefits of that sacrifice applied all the way back to Adam under the "ONE" Gospel of Gal 1:6-9, preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 and the basis of the new birth, forgiveness and justification in all ages.

============================

Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

That was the Bible.

This next bit is mere creative writing





Daniel 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

The Ancient of Days --- sinless
Those attending Him -- sinless

"Investigate" facts recorded in books
The court sat ... the books were opened
-- the action of the sinless beings described there.
Myriads standing before Him - are standing for service - His angels.

PreAdvent "Judgment"
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Saints are subjects in the future judgment
and a judgment was made in favor of the saints

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Everyone in that courtroom - sinless beings.

This it totally a Seventh Day Advantist false teaching.

Do not allow yourself to be fooled by flowing words and the enthusiasm of those who are committed to spreading this false teaching.

There is NO such thing in the Bible as "Investigative Judgment," it is an exclusive false teaching of Seventh-Day Adventists. This is the unbiblical teaching that Jesus entered into the Holy of Holies in 1843 to begin his work of Investigative Judgment, i.e., the process of deciding who is "worthy" to enter heaven or not.

That, no matter what else is said is the bottom line on this.

In sharp contrast, the Word of God teaches that NO ONE is worthy of Heaven (Romans 3:23). "ALL are sinners and NO ONE is worthy to be saved".

Christ's work of redemption was FINISHED long ago, and is not continuing today as Adventists foolishly teach.

It is complete falsehood for anyone to claim that Christ's work of redemption wasn't completed at the mercy seat. There is NOTHING in the Scriptures teaching otherwise. There is nothing even remotely indicative of an "investigative judgment" (as they term it), where Christ completes His work of redemption.

SDAs cannot KNOW they are saved, because of their faulty understanding of Christ's work of redemption. SDAs believe that Jesus is still in the process of redeeming them.

On the contrary, Hebrews 9:26 teaches,
"...but now ONCE in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

Jesus didn't need to go into the Holy of Holies repeatedly as did the Old Testament high priests; BUT, only once (Hebrews 9:25)!

The very concept of an "Investigative Judgment" would require Jesus to enter into the Holy of Holies AT LEAST TWICE, the second time being in 1844. Clearly this is extremely unbiblical. The heresy of "Investigative Judgment" denies Christ's COMPLETED work of redemption.

According to www.adventist.org...

"In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He [Christ] entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry."

THAT would be according to SDA theology the SECOND TIME!

SOURCE: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

Blasphemy! There is nothing taught in the Scriptures about a "second phase" of Christ's atoning work. If this be true (which it is not), then salvation can ONLY be found through Seventh-Day Adventism.

The notion of a "second phase" of redemption is exclusive to SDA. The Investigative Judgment is a bizarre teaching, not based upon any Scriptural teachings.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Daniel 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

The Ancient of Days --- sinless
Those attending Him -- sinless

"Investigate" facts recorded in books
The court sat ... the books were opened
-- the action of the sinless beings described there.
Myriads standing before Him - are standing for service - His angels.

PreAdvent "Judgment"
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Saints are subjects in the future judgment
and a judgment was made in favor of the saints

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Everyone in that courtroom - sinless beings.


But if you hold scripture at a "sufficient" distance you could simply ignore all that and imagine that Daniel 7 was written by "Seventh-day Adventists" so the "details" it presents can be ignored.

There are but 2 Judgments in Scripture, Bhema Seat of Christ for saved, Great White throne for the lost, and Daniel seems to be the GWT one!

 

[Major1]

Heb 8:1 tells us that the "main point" is the work of Christ in that heavenly sanctuary.

Daniel 7 tells us that the judgment is - pre-advent. and that it is based on the content of what is in "the books" of heaven. (Call it "investigative").

Daniel 7 - says that the result of the pre-advent investigative judgment is that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints"

Romans 2 - details the process followed in judgment that differentiates between the saved and the lost.

None of that is arguing that God does not already know the future.

Daniel 7 says that in the courtroom are the "myriads and myriads" of sinless beings. And that "the court sat and the books were opened"..

It is not a matter of "God trying to figure something out" - rather like the case of the book of Job - it is God demonstrating something "to the group".

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. (Isaiah 44:22)

Notice how in Isaiah 44 it is "past tense"? (hint: that is before the cross)

And in Ezek 28 -- Satan has already been consumed - reduced to ashes
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.

And when God speaks to Abraham "I have made you" a father of many nations when in fact at the time - Abraham had none.

Moses and Elijah stand "with Christ" in glorified form in Matthew 17 - on the mount of transfiguration BEFORE the cross. Fully forgiven before the blood of Christ had been shed. For Christ is the "Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" - the benefits of that sacrifice applied all the way back to Adam under the "ONE" Gospel of Gal 1:6-9, preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 and the basis of the new birth, forgiveness and justification in all ages.

============================

Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

That was the Bible.

This next bit is mere creative writing





Daniel 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

The Ancient of Days --- sinless
Those attending Him -- sinless

"Investigate" facts recorded in books
The court sat ... the books were opened
-- the action of the sinless beings described there.
Myriads standing before Him - are standing for service - His angels.

PreAdvent "Judgment"
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Saints are subjects in the future judgment
and a judgment was made in favor of the saints

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Everyone in that courtroom - sinless beings.

I notice that you quote from the SDA translation of the Bible. I wonder why that is other that you are a SDA. Shall we consider YOUR SDA translation of the Scriptures to see if we can determine its worthiness??????

Deuteronomy 5:3 in the King James Bible reads...

"The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."

Clearly, CONTEXT in the King James Bible teaches that the Sabbath Day was given by God to a specific people, the Jews, during in specific time period, the Old Testament, in a specific region, Palestine... …..
"The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."

Now notice the same verse from the "SDA Bible," or better said, the Clear Word Bible...

"It wasn't only with our ancestors that He made a covenant, but with us and with all who are alive today."

Read those two verses again and notice the 180 degree difference.
The SDA translation completely changes the words of Scripture!!!!!!!!!

The REAL Bible says that the Lord did not make this covenant with their ancestors.

The SDA bible clearly states the opposite. This naturally leads to some disturbing and indicting questions:

1). Why did the Adventist's change the meaning of Deuteronomy 5:3 to read the complete opposite of what ALL other Bibles read in Deuteronomy 5:3? (look for yourself).

2). If they changed this Scripture, How many other verses in their "Bible" did they change?

The SDA's NEVER quote the Ten Commandments from Deuteronomy because of Deuteronomy 5:3, which clearly exposes Seventh-Day Adventist as a false religion. Adventists teach that the Ten Commandments were not first given at Sinai, but were given to Adam and Eve before the fall of man, before sin began.

As evidenced, SDA's were willing to corrupt God's Word in a malicious attempt to justify a false doctrine. This is true of many religions, such as Roman Catholicism, which corrupts the Ten Commandments. If you read the official Catholic Catechism, you'll find that they've eliminated the 2nd Commandment which forbids BOWING to idols. To compensate for the missing 2nd Commandment, they've split the 10th Commandment into two. This is woeful deception!

 

[Major1]

There are but 2 Judgments in Scripture, Bhema Seat of Christ for saved, Great White throne for the lost, and Daniel seems to be the GWT one!

BINGO! We have a WINNER!

I have been waiting to see if anyone would correctly identify the Daniel 7 misinterpretation by our SDA friend Bob.

First, we see that Daniel tells us about thrones that were set up. When we think of thrones, we think of ruling as kings. But the king does not sit on his throne all the time.

The throne is the place that he sits on when he judges. In other words, thrones are the seats from which judgment is made. Remember, David wrote, "In Jerusalem,

Ps. 122:5 …
"thrones were set for judgment, the thrones of the house of David."

Now, in Revelation 20:4, John wrote...………
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them...…".

This is after Armageddon! This is not 1844!!!!!

These are the same thrones of judgment that Daniel saw in chapter 7.

Daniel 7:9-10 .........…
“Thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him.”

Notice the many similarities between Daniel and Revelation. The setting is exactly the same...……………..

Judgment in Daniel 7 and Revelation 20
1. They describe a courtroom.

This courtroom happens to be located in heaven and is surrounded by angels. This is the Supreme Court of the Universe. This judgment will be final and eternal. There is no appeal in this case, because there is no higher court to appeal to.

2. They mention a judge.

Court rooms have judges. Daniel even gives the name of the Judge (The Ancient of Days). Everything about the judge is white. His hair is white (Daniel). His clothing is white (Daniel). The throne he sits on is white (Revelation).

3. They describe a throne.

This judge sits down and from this throne He judges people and decides their eternal destiny.

4. They describe the accused.

Revelation focuses on this aspect. One of the first thing that happens is the bailiff enters the room and says “all rise” as the judge enters. The defendants rise and the proceedings begin. Guess what. In Revelation, the accused are said to stand before this throne (20:12). How do they get to this judgment? There get there by resurrection.

John says, “I saw the DEAD STANDING”. They were dead and now they are standing. Their soul becomes united with their body. The body comes to life only to stand before God and to be held accountable for what they have done. The accused stand face- to-face before this judge.

5. They mention books being opened.

If any of you have been in a courtroom. One of the first things a judge does after he sits down is to open the books to see what the charges are in the case brought before him. The books are opened in the final judgment as well.

There are two kinds of books mentioned. There is the Book of Life, which a book of names, and there are books of works (a book of deeds). The second book is in the plural. There is one book of life but there are many books of works. There is one Book of Life that has the names of all of the saved people of all eternity. Each unsaved person has a book of works.

You can picture billions and billions of these books stacked up. Each book contains a list of good deeds and bad deeds. Could you imagine a list of ALL of the sins you have committed in your entire life, not just all of the things you did but all of the things you said and all of the things you thought?

It would be a pretty long list, because we sin every day of our lives. God keeps perfect records of everyone’s life. This is when all the skeletons will come out of the closet and all those secret sins, things that no one knows about but you will come to light (Ecclesiastes 12:14; Romans 2:16; I Corinthians 4:5; Luke 12:2-3).

The Psalmist says, “If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins, O Lord, who could stand?” (130:3). That is a scary thought. On this day, God will have a record of sins, recorded in a book and will hold sinners accountable and punish them for each and every sin.

There will be two stages to the Great White Throne Judgment. Stage one will determine if you are saved or lost. The presence of your name in the Book of Life (20:15), is what saves people not their works. Stage two is the penalty phase (based on the book of works). Works do not determine salvation but determine the degrees of reward or punishment. Judgment will be based on what is written in the book of works. “The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books” (plural).

Bob...…….you asked for my response to your claim of Daniel 7 and here it is my friend. Daniel 7 IS Revelation 20's Great White Throne Judgment that will take place after Armageddon and it did not take place in 1844.

It is in the Bible my friend.

 

[klutedavid]

Daniel 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

The Ancient of Days --- sinless
Those attending Him -- sinless

"Investigate" facts recorded in books
The court sat ... the books were opened
-- the action of the sinless beings described there.
Myriads standing before Him - are standing for service - His angels.

PreAdvent "Judgment"
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Saints are subjects in the future judgment
and a judgment was made in favor of the saints

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Everyone in that courtroom - sinless beings.


But if you hold scripture at a "sufficient" distance you could simply ignore all that and imagine that Daniel 7 was written by "Seventh-day Adventists" so the "details" it presents can be ignored.

Do you believe the little horn in Daniel 7, is the same little horn described in Daniel 8?

 

[Major1]

Do you believe the little horn in Daniel 7, is the same little horn described in Daniel 8?

You did not ask me my brother but my response would be NO.

 

[BobRyan]

Do you believe the little horn in Daniel 7, is the same little horn described in Daniel 8?

Yes

Does that help you understand the judgment in Daniel 7??

 

[GingerBeer]

It can't be a "pre-advent" thingie. It's already advent now!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes

Does that help you understand the judgment in Daniel 7??

Its the Great White throne one from Revelation 20, and NO Christian will be found there!

 

[YeshuaFan]

---staff edit---

Jesus death atoned for ALL of my sins, so how I can God investigate me in order to have me lose salvation?

 

[YeshuaFan]

---Staff Edit---

Bhema seat Judgment not found in Daniel 7....

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes

Does that help you understand the judgment in Daniel 7??

The little horn is antichrist, correct?

 

[BobRyan]

The little horn is antichrist, correct?

Indeed the term used in 1 John 2 does apply as all Protestant groups would have agreed initiall - and does that help clarify the judgment teaching in to know about the 1260 years of dark ages and persecution of the saints following the fall of the 4 beast (pagan Rome) in Daniel 7 into ten sections?

 

[BobRyan]

Bhema seat Judgment not found in Daniel 7....

Bhema is greek - Daniel 7 is written in Hebrew. Was this supposed to be surprising?

2 Cor 5:10 "we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" and that includes saints -- so also in Daniel 7 that saints are the subject of the judgment and only once that judgment ends does persecution of the saints end.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus death atoned for ALL of my sins,

The atoning sacrifice at the cross was full and complete for all mankind
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins - and not for our sins only - but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2 --- "yes really"

so how I can God investigate me in order to have me lose salvation?

Because there is more to full atonement than "Atoning sacrifice" which is why in God's model of Atonement in Lev 16 - the chapter does not end as soon as the sin offering is slain. That "truncated version" is what many have imagined is the full scope.

The Calvinist model of "limited atonement" where "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins but NOT for the sins of the whole world" does not survive the test of scripture in 1 John 2:2.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Indeed the term used in 1 John 2 does apply as all Protestant groups would have agreed initiall - and does that help clarify the judgment teaching in to know about the 1260 years of dark ages and persecution of the saints following the fall of the 4 beast (pagan Rome) in Daniel 7 into ten sections?

The Middle Ages were not part of the prophecy!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Bhema is greek - Daniel 7 is written in Hebrew. Was this supposed to be surprising?

2 Cor 5:10 "we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" and that includes saints -- so also in Daniel 7 that saints are the subject of the judgment and only once that judgment ends does persecution of the saints end.

That event is after all things, so must be Revelation 20!

 

[BobRyan]

The Middle Ages were not part of the prophecy!

until you read the actual Bible in Daniel 7, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13.