The Orthodox Church and Alcohol

Orthodoxy does indeed allow drinking alcoholic beverage in modertation.

Jesus drank wine (alcohol containing wine) not grapejuice.
When the last supper was eaten in April (when passover is celebrated) grapejuice does not exist.

It only takes about 40 days for grapejuice to ferment , In Jesus day there were no preservatives or refrigeration. So you only have about 40 days out of an entire year to drink grapejuice.

But i like the way Jesus said it:

"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, He has a demon. The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, Look a glutton and a winebibber(drunkard) a friend of tax collectors and sinners. But wisdom is justified by all her children."

AJB4 said:

Never mind. I just remembered the Eucharist.

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oops. sorry for my previous post then.

Use of grape juice comes from Prohibition, not from the Tradition or the Scripture.

Well if you want to get technical, the Eucharist isn't really wine, properly.

But we do allow moderate alcohol consumption (in the Russian trad they often take small sips of wine in addition to the antidoron after receiving the Eucharist) because after all, "wine maketh glad the heart of man".

I forget which denomination it was, but I remember hearing a story about some American Protestants who went to visit and help out at a sister church of the same denomination in Europe. The Americans were totally shocked by the fact that the the Europeans, who professed to be Christians, were drinking all the time. The Europeans, on the other hand, couldn't get over the fact that the American kids dressed wore shorts. My point is that drinking is very much a cultural thing, moreso than a religious issue.

My husband was raised in what I would consider a fundamentalist Baptist household. He's been Orthodox for a while, but I've mentioned on this board before that sometimes an issue will pop up and all of a sudden, he's channeling Pat Robertson. This happened the other day regarding alcohol (which my husband drinks every single day, btw).

We were talking about my hometown, which very well may be the Worst Place in America. Last week, the (now) former mayor was indicted by the federal government for conspiracy to distribute cocaine, arson (he burned down someone's house because they wouldn't sell him the land it was on), tons of political crimes, and paying a 14-year-old girl to have an extended sexual relationship with him (he's 73). Half the city and county government is in prison for horrible things like that, and the county is well-known as a haven for drug producers and all types of criminals. So anyway, we're talking about this place, and about the fact that the former mayor and others were elders in the biggest church in town, and my husband says, "You have to wonder if they really believe they are Christians. I mean, they say they are Christians, but then they go and do stuff like drink and listen to rap music." I swear, it's a good thing he was driving, because I would have wrecked right then. With all the truly horrible things going on there, drinking and listening to rap were the two things that stuck out in his mind as un-Christian behavior. The mind boggles. But my point is that while drinking can be sinful (as can eating), the idea that it is some kind of arch-sin is kind of bizarre, and almost exclusively the realm of American Protestants (and I think Mormons).

protestants and musulmen

It's okay to drink in moderation. Personally I don't do it often because it's simply a lot of emply calories, and for the effort required to get rid them there are simply better things than booze. My wife doesn't drink, in Israel they could have gotten alcohol but wouldn't have had the money for it and even if they did being Arabs in position of alcohol would have been dangerous because a Muslim ignorant of the fact they are Christians might have taken the chance to "enforce" Islamic prohibition.

Defining moderation can be difficult. In my personal opinion that's a couple of times a week at most. Repeative behavior is the beginning of habit (addiction), as an example you have a beer every day after work to relex. At first that might not be a problem, but soon enough you'll find you can't relax after work without a beer. That's when you cross a line into alcoholism.

I hear that in some jurisdictions, beer is considered a grain during Lenten seasons.

Only 4 more days till Saturday.

If Jesus drank alcohol, then it's good enough for us.

NyssaTheHobbit said:

I hear that in some jurisdictions, beer is considered a grain during Lenten seasons.

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The Russian tradition considers beer to be lenten.


The real good new is that St. Patrick's Day is on Saturday this year. Green Guiness for everyone!!!

To begin, I thoroughly believe it is fine to drink in moderation. I choose not to drink because I grew up with alcoholic parents who fought all the time and I cannot bring myself to drink for taste / pleasure. I provide wine at our dinner parties and I am not at all offended by the partaking of alcohol. What I have encountered at our small mission parish, is that everyone tends to almost make fun of this fact that I am a "teetotaler" and I have been introduced to visitors during coffee hour as "The Church's designated driver".
I always try to laugh it off, but it does get old. You cannot imagine some of the bad times in my life due to alcohol. Please be careful of the feelings of those you might know who do not drink. Not drinking has even alienated me from a lot of people who used to be my friends. Not because I don't want to be around them, but for some reason, they don't like being around non-drinkers.
Thanks

Alfred M chief of all sinners

Lotar said:

The Russian tradition considers beer to be lenten.


The real good new is that St. Patrick's Day is on Saturday this year. Green Guiness for everyone!!!

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How do you dye Guiness green?

I am German. Beer is liquid bread.

Alfred M said:

Please be careful of the feelings of those you might know who do not drink. Not drinking has even alienated me from a lot of people who used to be my friends. Not because I don't want to be around them, but for some reason, they don't like being around non-drinkers.

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I can think of two explanations for your friends' behavior.

First, part of drinking socially is letting your guard down, and if everyone isn't equally doing this, then the non-drinker has the upper hand. Does that make sense? I haven't really noticed this among my friends, and don't remember it from college, but that seems to be the dynamic at faculty get-togethers I attend. It seems to make people uncomfortable knowing that they are impaired, even if only slightly, and you aren't. I noticed this while I was pregnant. Even though my colleagues obviously understood why I wasn't drinking at parties, they still seemed a little uneasy with it. But it is common for the significant others to function as designated drivers, and their soberness doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Also, and I'm definitely not saying this is true in your case, some non-drinkers can be incredibly preachy about it. So even if you aren't like that at all, some drinkers are so used to preachy tea-totalers that they will project that stereotype onto you. My grandparents drank a lot. Like, passing out drunk in the grocery store. My dad, their son, drank just as much until he quit in his mid twenties. Since then (for thirty years) he hasn't stopped talking about the evils of alcohol and the moral inferiority of drinkers, his own wife and kids included. Because of my experiences with him, I can sympathize with your friends. Honestly, when someone says "I don't drink," my first thought is often, "Oh jeez, here it comes." I know that's not fair, but I'm being honest. Your friends should, ideally, give you the benefit of the doubt. But they may have heard one too many sermons from other friends, and decided it's just not worth it anymore.

Michael the Iconographer said:

How do you dye Guiness green?

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With a will and enough food coloring all things are possible.