The great tribulation of the 6th seal

[tailgator]

The great tribulation of the sixth seal is the time of the wrath of God.It takes place after the persecution of the saints in the 5th seal.

The saints are instructed in the testimony of Jesus and the word of God to warn the people of God's coming judgement .Much like John the Baptist became a watchman warning the people to repent.If you remember,John was beheaded .
The saints warn against worshiping the beast ,it's image and receiving its mark .They testify of Jesus and are killed for these reasons.

In all accounts ,the persecution comes first ,followed by the great tribulation and the wrath of God upon all them who rejected the gospel .

Revelation 6
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



The church from the nations does not suffer the wrath of God but are delivered out of the sixth seal great tribulation.


Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[tailgator]

Daniel 11-12 records the same events.
The persecution of the saints in Israel and then the great tribulation.
According to Daniel ,the persecution lasts for a time,times and a half.3.5 years.

First the persecution.

Daniel 11:33-35
“Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

And then the great tribulation.

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.


Notice ,that during this great tribulation is when the names of them who are written ,are delivered at that time .This corresponds with the 144000 being redeemed from the earth and the great multitude in revelation 7 coming out of great tribulation.

 

[tailgator]

Jesus Olivet discourse describes the same persecution of the saints in Israel ,and the same great tribulation.



First the persecution

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake


Then the great tribulation.

Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.




It is at this time of great tribulation seen in revelation 6th seal ,the Olivet discourse,and Daniel 12:1 that the church is delivered.

 

[tailgator]

The 6th seal great tribulation is caused by nation attacking nation and kingdom against kingdom.

It takes place after the king of the north goes forth to destroy the middle east and north Africa.

Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.



It is at that time that his armed forces set up the abomination that causes desolation.This device causes great tribulation and males the land desolate so that it is uninhabited by common men.


Mathew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[Jamdoc]

The great tribulation of the sixth seal is the time of the wrath of God.It takes place after the persecution of the saints in the 5th seal.

The saints are instructed in the testimony of Jesus and the word of God to warn the people of God's coming judgement .Much like John the Baptist became a watchman warning the people to repent.If you remember,John was beheaded .
The saints warn against worshiping the beast ,it's image and receiving its mark .They testify of Jesus and are killed for these reasons.

In all accounts ,the persecution comes first ,followed by the great tribulation and the wrath of God upon all them who rejected the gospel .

Revelation 6
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



The church from the nations does not suffer the wrath of God but are delivered out of the sixth seal great tribulation.


Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The great tribulation of the sixth seal is the time of the wrath of God.It takes place after the persecution of the saints in the 5th seal.

The saints are instructed in the testimony of Jesus and the word of God to warn the people of God's coming judgement .Much like John the Baptist became a watchman warning the people to repent.If you remember,John was beheaded .
The saints warn against worshiping the beast ,it's image and receiving its mark .They testify of Jesus and are killed for these reasons.

In all accounts ,the persecution comes first ,followed by the great tribulation and the wrath of God upon all them who rejected the gospel .

Revelation 6
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



The church from the nations does not suffer the wrath of God but are delivered out of the sixth seal great tribulation.


Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Well, I can't agree with you because the signs of the 6th seal are given as happening immediately after the tribulation.

You guys have improper definitions of what tribulation is. You think that the wrath of God is tribulation, it is not. Tribulation is specifically religious persecution.

Matthew 24:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So it happens right after the tribulation which in context of the passage is referring to the great tribulation after the Abomination of Desolation, you have:
1. Darkening of the Sun and Moon
2. Falling stars
3. Shaking of the heavens
4. Jesus coming on the clouds
5. Tribes of the Earth mourning
6. Gathering of the Elect

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Here you have
1. Darkening of the sun and moon (verse 12)
2. Falling stars
3. Heaven departing as a scroll rolled together (powers of the heavens shaken)
4. Tribes on the Earth hiding and mourning.. asking to be hidden from the FACE of Jesus

and Revelation 7 is the gathering of the elect.
if you understand the 5th seal as the Great Tribulation, then it goes in the same order.
Religious Persecution, followed by the Darkening of the sun and moon, shaking of the heavens, coming of the Son of Man, and gathering of the Elect.

If you can see this and see how it follows the same order, and not get caught up in the weeds of your own personal definition of what tribulation is, making it synonymous with the wrath of God.. congratulations that's pre-wrath.

It helps if you remember that in everywhere in scripture that talks about the 2nd coming Jesus is coming on the clouds and there's not a horse mentioned.. it helps.

if you get stuck on your own definition of what tribulation is and get stuck on Revelation 19.. you'll miss what's plainly right in front of you.

 

[keras]

Well, I can't agree with you because the signs of the 6th seal are given as happening immediately after the tribulation.

It is serious error to conflate the Sixth Seal with the glorious Return of Jesus. They are quite different events, years apart.
You contradict yourself, by saying: the moon will shine blood red; at the Sixth Seal, and the moon will not give any light; at the Return.

Proof that the SS is not after tribulation, is in Revelation 7:14
It IS a tribulation, the worldwide disaster, that those people proved their faith in the Lords protection.

 

[tailgator]

You guys have improper definitions of what tribulation is. You think that the wrath of God is tribulation, it is not. Tribulation is specifically religious persecution.

Keep In mind,Jesus was quoting Daniel when he was talking about the great tribulation .According to Daniel ,the persecution of the saints begins after the king of the norths armed forces(second beast) arrive in Israel.

This is the persecution.

Daniel 11:33-35​

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.​

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.​

According to Daniel,the great tribulation begins a time,times and a half (3.5 years)after the persecution begins .

The great tribulation takes place in Daniel 12:1-2 when the dead are raised.

Daniel 12:1-2​

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book​

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame​

The great tribulation Daniel and Jesus was talking about ,takes place after the saints have been persecuted for 42 months.The saints are delivered at the time of the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1 and revelation 6-7.
The same time the beast and the false prophet are destroyed

 

[Jamdoc]

It is serious error to conflate the Sixth Seal with the glorious Return of Jesus. They are quite different events, years apart.
You contradict yourself, by saying: the moon will shine blood red; at the Sixth Seal, and the moon will not give any light; at the Return.

Proof that the SS is not after tribulation, is in Revelation 7:14
It IS a tribulation, the worldwide disaster, that those people proved their faith in the Lords protection.

Nope, we've been over this, your error stems from you not knowing what a lunar eclipse looks like.
You think that the lunar eclipse makes the moon black, and that what the bible describes the moon becoming as blood involves the moon glowing with its own light bright red
which is..

I'm sorry
but comical.

The moon does not glow.
it reflects light from the sun
when the Earth covers it with its shadow (eclipse) it becomes a dark red like blood.

 

[Jamdoc]

Keep In mind,Jesus was quoting Daniel when he was talking about the great tribulation .According to Daniel ,the persecution of the saints begins after the king of the norths armed forces(second beast) arrive in Israel.

This is the persecution.

Daniel 11:33-35​

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.​

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.​

According to Daniel,the great tribulation begins a time,times and a half (3.5 years)after the persecution begins .

The great tribulation takes place in Daniel 12:1-2 when the dead are raised.

Daniel 12:1-2​

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book​

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame​

The great tribulation Daniel and Jesus was talking about ,takes place after the saints have been persecuted for 42 months.The saints are delivered at the time of the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1 and revelation 6-7.
The same time the beast and the false prophet are destroyed

He is quoting Daniel, but Daniel 12 is not Chronologically taking place after the last events of Daniel 11, which is the death of the Antichrist. Antichrist is killed at the end of the 70th week, not before the Abomination of Desolation that marks the beginning of Great Tribulation.

Jesus termed the events of the 6th seal as happening immediately after the tribulation of those days, and in context, "what days", is "great tribulation" since it was one flow of conversation. So the 6th seal is happening immediately after great tribulation. Revelation 7 supports that saying the saints there have come out of great tribulation after the 6th seal.

So by defining the 6th seal AS great tribulation especially the beginning, is to be at odds with what Jesus taught.

 

[tailgator]

He is quoting Daniel, but Daniel 12 is not Chronologically taking place after the last events of Daniel 11, which is the death of the Antichrist. Antichrist is killed at the end of the 70th week, not before the Abomination of Desolation that marks the beginning of Great Tribulation.

Jesus termed the events of the 6th seal as happening immediately after the tribulation of those days, and in context, "what days", is "great tribulation" since it was one flow of conversation. So the 6th seal is happening immediately after great tribulation. Revelation 7 supports that saying the saints there have come out of great tribulation after the 6th seal.

So by defining the 6th seal AS great tribulation especially the beginning, is to be at odds with what Jesus taught.

Daniel 12;1 say Daniel 12;1 takes place at that time referring to Daniel 11:44-45.

The man of sin who's armed forces set up the abomination that causes Jerusalem desolation, is destroyed at Jesus coming.

Daniel 11:45
And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

And it is the abomination that causes desolation ,that causes the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1.

The abomination that causes desolation is used by the armed forces when they go forth to destroy and annihilate many.That it what the abomination that causes desolation was developed for.



Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.


He is not using common firearms and swords to annihilate many .Handguns is not what causes the great tribulation at that time.The only thing I see out of place is him moving the Tabernacles of his palace to Jerusalem in Daniel 11:45.
I'm sure the US embassy will have been completed by then.

 

[tailgator]

So by defining the 6th seal AS great tribulation especially the beginning, is to be at odds with what Jesus taught.

Tell that to the people in judea who flee to the mountains and hide under them in luke 23 and revelation 6.


Luke 23:
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

 

[Jamdoc]

Daniel 12;1 say Daniel 12;1 takes place at that time referring to Daniel 11:44-45.

The man of sin who's armed forces set up the abomination that causes Jerusalem desolation, is destroyed at Jesus coming.

Antichrist is dead at the end of Daniel 11, Daniel 12 is not a continuation from that point. It's elaboration on the events that happen during Daniel 11. Just like Daniel 11 is not Chronologically after Daniel 8, it's explaining things happening during the same time period. Daniel 7 is also, same time period. It's end time visions with each one elaborating more detail but it is not Chronologically Daniel 8 after Daniel 7, as Daniel 7 describes the second coming and eternal Kingdom, so does Daniel 8 It's multiple reiterations about the same time period, with more details about different facets of it.
Antichrist dies in Daniel 7, 8, and 11 specifically, you don't think he dies 3 times do you?

Tell that to the people in judea who flee to the mountains and hide under them in luke 23 and revelation 6.

You're still not understanding what "tribulation" is. It's persecution of the righteous, by the wicked. The wicked hide in the caves and rocks when Jesus comes, the saints, who had been persecuted by those wicked up until this point, go to heaven. That's what Revelation 7 shows. They came out of great tribulation, they're redeemed and resurrected.

If Jesus says that immediately after great tribulation the sun and moon darken and stars fall and they see the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds and the gathering of the elect and that happens in Revelation at the 6th seal and Revelation 7....

You have 2 choices
Either A: Do what you're doing because you're confused about what "tribulation" means and think it is the same thing as the wrath of God and just means "any bad thing happening"
or B: Because Jesus said that was after the tribulation, recognize that the things that happen after the 6th seal, the trumpets and bowls.. are not tribulation, it's over, but are something else, for a different group of people: The Wrath of God/The Indignation as it's called in Isaiah 26

Then things will click, as to why Jesus talks about judgement and vengeance happening after His second coming (what the parables later in Matthew 24 and all of Matthew 25 are, Parables about judgement), and why the Day of the Lord has both redeeming elements and retribution elements.
It's redemption for the saints who were persecuted prior, and retribution for those who persecuted them.

Great Tribulation is the war of the Antichrist against the Saints.
the Wrath of God is the retribution by Jesus FOR the Great Tribulation.

This is what statements like Luke 18:6-8 are referring to

6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

and Paul refers to it too in 2 Thessalonians 1

4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Note that when does the rest come? when Jesus is revealed from heaven. At the second coming, that is when it is rest for the saints, and vengeance against those who persecuted them.

The Eschatological wrath of God is not against just a general sinful state of the world, God has been longsuffering of that for a long time. It is vengeance against specific sins, namely the Antichrist claiming to be God, and making war on the Saints during Great Tribulation.

 

[tailgator]

Antichrist is dead at the end of Daniel 11, Daniel 12 is not a continuation from that point. It's elaboration on the events that happen during Daniel 11. Just like Daniel 11 is not Chronologically after Daniel 8, it's explaining things happening during the same time period. Daniel 7 is also, same time period. It's end time visions with each one elaborating more detail but it is not Chronologically Daniel 8 after Daniel 7, as Daniel 7 describes the second coming and eternal Kingdom, so does Daniel 8 It's multiple reiterations about the same time period, with more details about different facets of it.
Antichrist dies in Daniel 7, 8, and 11 specifically, you don't think he dies 3 times do you?


You're still not understanding what "tribulation" is. It's persecution of the righteous, by the wicked. The wicked hide in the caves and rocks when Jesus comes, the saints, who had been persecuted by those wicked up until this point, go to heaven. That's what Revelation 7 shows. They came out of great tribulation, they're redeemed and resurrected.

If Jesus says that immediately after great tribulation the sun and moon darken and stars fall and they see the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds and the gathering of the elect and that happens in Revelation at the 6th seal and Revelation 7....

You have 2 choices
Either A: Do what you're doing because you're confused about what "tribulation" means and think it is the same thing as the wrath of God and just means "any bad thing happening"
or B: Because Jesus said that was after the tribulation, recognize that the things that happen after the 6th seal, the trumpets and bowls.. are not tribulation, it's over, but are something else, for a different group of people: The Wrath of God/The Indignation as it's called in Isaiah 26

Then things will click, as to why Jesus talks about judgement and vengeance happening after His second coming (what the parables later in Matthew 24 and all of Matthew 25 are, Parables about judgement), and why the Day of the Lord has both redeeming elements and retribution elements.
It's redemption for the saints who were persecuted prior, and retribution for those who persecuted them.

Great Tribulation is the war of the Antichrist against the Saints.
the Wrath of God is the retribution by Jesus FOR the Great Tribulation.

This is what statements like Luke 18:6-8 are referring to


and Paul refers to it too in 2 Thessalonians 1

Note that when does the rest come? when Jesus is revealed from heaven. At the second coming, that is when it is rest for the saints, and vengeance against those who persecuted them.

The Eschatological wrath of God is not against just a general sinful state of the world, God has been longsuffering of that for a long time. It is vengeance against specific sins, namely the Antichrist claiming to be God, and making war on the Saints during Great Tribulation.

What about "at that time" do you not comprehend?

"At that time"does not mean a week from then or 3 years from then.At that time does not mean 3.5 years prior to the great tribulation when the saints were first persecuted.
"At that time"literally means" At that time"
"At that time" is great tribulation and thy people shall be delivered "at that time"and them who sleep in the dust awake "at that time."



Daniel 11:44-12:2
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Jamdoc]

What about "at that time" do you not comprehend?

"At that time"does not mean a week from then or 3 years from then.At that time does not mean 3.5 years prior to the great tribulation when the saints were first persecuted.
"At that time"literally means" At that time"
"At that time" is great tribulation and thy people shall be delivered "at that time"and them who sleep in the dust awake "at that time."



Daniel 11:44-12:2
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

so after Antichrist dies, the Great Tribulation begins is how you're interpreting it, and the Abomination of Desolation is set up after Antichrist comes to his end?

 

[tailgator]

so after Antichrist dies, the Great Tribulation begins is how you're interpreting it, and the Abomination of Desolation is set up after Antichrist comes to his end?

The great tribulation takes place "at that time "when the abomination of desolation is set up.

At that time will be great tribulation.At that time will the son of perdition come to his end.At that time many of them who sleep in the dust awake.

All the son of perdition has to do is give the order to his armed forces to make the heavens depart as a scroll being rolled together and that's that.


"At that time"

Mathew 24:21
For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

 

[Jamdoc]

The great tribulation takes place "at that time "when the abomination of desolation is set up.

At that time will be great tribulation.At that time will the son of perdition come to his end.At that time many of them who sleep in the dust awake.

All the son of perdition has to do is give the order to his armed forces to make the heavens depart as a scroll being rolled together and that's that.


"At that time"

Mathew 24:21
For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

okay but you see the abomination of desolation happens in Daniel 11:31. So the great tribulation could be said to start there, then in Daniel 11:45 is his end.

I don't think "at that time" means that after Antichrist meets his end then great tribulation starts and the abomination of desolation is set up.
"at that time" in Daniel 12 seems to be referring to this entire period of things going on in Daniel 11, not something Chronologically happening after Antichrist is ended.

 

[tailgator]

okay but you see the abomination of desolation happens in Daniel 11:31. So the great tribulation could be said to start there, then in Daniel 11:45 is his end.

I don't think "at that time" means that after Antichrist meets his end then great tribulation starts and the abomination of desolation is set up.
"at that time" in Daniel 12 seems to be referring to this entire period of things going on in Daniel 11, not something Chronologically happening after Antichrist is ended.

The king of the north meets his end at the time of the wrath of God which is at the time of great tribulation .

In Daniel 11:31 Daniel wrote the king of the norths armed forces will take away the daily sacrifice,then they will set up the abomination of desolation.

There are 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up.
That is a little more than 3.5 years which is how long the saints are persecuted.The Abomination of desolation .is set up at the time of the end in Daniel 11:44 when the great tribulation is "at that time "as Jesus said.

 

[tailgator]

The great tribulation takes place "at that time "when the abomination of desolation is set up.

At that time will be great tribulation.At that time will the son of perdition come to his end.At that time many of them who sleep in the dust awake.

All the son of perdition has to do is give the order to his armed forces to make the heavens depart as a scroll being rolled together and that's that.


"At that time"

Mathew 24:21
For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.



For the 3.5 years these saints in Israel are imprisoned and killed,you will be typing away on your keyboard .Your not even going to read about their imprisonment in the news because netanyahu is subdueing the freedom of the press.Hardly anyone will even try to help them.

 

[Jamdoc]

The king of the north meets his end at the time of the wrath of God which is at the time of great tribulation .

In Daniel 11:31 Daniel wrote the king of the norths armed forces will take away the daily sacrifice,then they will set up the abomination of desolation.

There are 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up.
That is a little more than 3.5 years which is how long the saints are persecuted.The Abomination of desolation .is set up at the time of the end in Daniel 11:44 when the great tribulation is "at that time "as Jesus said.

but the text says in Daniel 11:31 that the Abomination of Desolation is placed in the sanctuary.
and the King of the North had met his end before that, Daniel 11:19. There's a successor (the raiser of taxes) that is quickly removed by the "Vile Man" (The Antichrist)
Daniel 11 is a Chronological sequence, Daniel 12 doesn't seem to be a continuation Chronologically but stepping outside of Chronology and elaborating on things, Like Revelation 10 and 17 do.

But ultimately Daniel is a tangent, because Jesus said immediately after the tribulation is when the signs of the 6th seal happen. Like that much is plain.
6th seal? tribulation is over according to Jesus. Making it and everything after it not tribulation but something else.

 

[tailgator]

but the text says in Daniel 11:31 that the Abomination of Desolation is placed in the sanctuary.
and the King of the North had met his end before that, Daniel 11:19. There's a successor (the raiser of taxes) that is quickly removed by the "Vile Man" (The Antichrist)
Daniel 11 is a Chronological sequence, Daniel 12 doesn't seem to be a continuation Chronologically but stepping outside of Chronology and elaborating on things, Like Revelation 10 and 17 do.

But ultimately Daniel is a tangent, because Jesus said immediately after the tribulation is when the signs of the 6th seal happen. Like that much is plain.
6th seal? tribulation is over according to Jesus. Making it and everything after it not tribulation but something else.

Tribulation then something else called great tribulation.

Like I said.While the saints in Israel are being imprisoned and killed,you will be typing on your keyboard.
You won't realize anything till it's to late and the US armed forces have laid the middle east desolate.


There will be "all hell to pay 'after Israels enemies overthrow it