The differences between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit

[Bellicus]

I know there is a lot of confusion around about the different roles of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and also different opinions.

For me God is the one we should pray to, worship and praise, the one that controls everything, that knows everything, even if we don't know him, who he is, what he thinks, what he do, what his name is etc. God is something we are isolated from, something that we have no direct contact with. He is another place watching us, but we can't watch him. He is the only good one, the only one with justice, the only one that decides everything and the one that ultimately will be everything in everyone.

Jesus is the one that took all of our sins, he is our way back to God, and we need to believe that he did what he did, or else he will mean nothing to us and we won't follow the way that he made ready, to free us from death and hell. He should be worshiped and praised, but not prayed to, but he is praying for us. He is also with God, so we are isolated from him in the same way as we are with God.

The Holy Spirit is what gives us the power we need to walk the way Jesus made ready. The road is narrow and the gate is small, and we depend on the light the Spirit gives us to be able to see where to walk (metaphorical speaking). If someone say "Jesus is among us" or that they feel "God's presence" this is really the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is what gives us peace, happiness, love, patience etc and all the gifts of God that are available for us here on earth. It delivers answers for our prayer and cleanse us and put us back on our feet if we fall. We should follow the Spirit instead of our own sense of what is right or wrong, our own willpower or our reason and sense of logic. What I think myself, but are not completely sure about is that the Spirit should not be prayed to, not worshiped or praised, and we should not communicate with it, we should not talk, but only listen (this is my feeling about how to respect it). All we need to do with the Spirit is to follow it instead of escape it. If we fall, we should ask God for forgiveness and to fill us with the Spirit once again and continue to walk. If we keep up this till the end, we will live forever.

Anyone got anything to add to this, or something you disagree with or other opinions?

 

[HuntingMan]

I think you are sorely mistaken.
The Holy Spirit IS God and by default IS to be worshipped AS God.
I think it is just a step away from blaspheming the Spirit to rob Him of BEING God Himself.
Surely you do not claim that the Spirit sent FROM God is not God ?

 

[Bellicus]

Of course I am not committing blasphemy, I am fully aware of that the Spirit comes from God, and lack of knowledge could never be blasphemy anyway. But if you read for example Acts 5,32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Notice how Peter makes a difference between people, the Holy Ghost and God.

 

[christianmomof3]

The Holy Spirit does not only come from God, He is God. There is only one God and He is Triune - three/one and exists as the Father, Son and Spirit.
The father is the source, the son is God realized and the Spirit is God in us, but they are all only One and are all God.

 

[Tavita]

I know there is a lot of confusion around about the different roles of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and also different opinions.

For me God is the one we should pray to, worship and praise, the one that controls everything, that knows everything, even if we don't know him, who he is, what he thinks, what he do, what his name is etc. God is something we are isolated from, something that we have no direct contact with. He is another place watching us, but we can't watch him. He is the only good one, the only one with justice, the only one that decides everything and the one that ultimately will be everything in everyone.

Jesus is the one that took all of our sins, he is our way back to God, and we need to believe that he did what he did, or else he will mean nothing to us and we won't follow the way that he made ready, to free us from death and hell. He should be worshiped and praised, but not prayed to, but he is praying for us. He is also with God, so we are isolated from him in the same way as we are with God.

The Holy Spirit is what gives us the power we need to walk the way Jesus made ready. The road is narrow and the gate is small, and we depend on the light the Spirit gives us to be able to see where to walk (metaphorical speaking). If someone say "Jesus is among us" or that they feel "God's presence" this is really the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is what gives us peace, happiness, love, patience etc and all the gifts of God that are available for us here on earth. It delivers answers for our prayer and cleanse us and put us back on our feet if we fall. We should follow the Spirit instead of our own sense of what is right or wrong, our own willpower or our reason and sense of logic. What I think myself, but are not completely sure about is that the Spirit should not be prayed to, not worshiped or praised, and we should not communicate with it, we should not talk, but only listen (this is my feeling about how to respect it). All we need to do with the Spirit is to follow it instead of escape it. If we fall, we should ask God for forgiveness and to fill us with the Spirit once again and continue to walk. If we keep up this till the end, we will live forever.

Anyone got anything to add to this, or something you disagree with or other opinions?

I 'think' I agree with you about not worshipping the Holy Spirit. If Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth which comes from the Father, then you're basically worshipping the Father anyway. Jesus also said those that worship the 'Father' shall worship in spirit and in truth.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers.


I also found it very interesting that you use 'it' instead of 'he' when speaking of Holy Spirit. Does your bible use 'it'?

This is how this verse reads in the Analytical Scripture Analyzer in the NT Greek (which you can download free off the net)..

John 16:13

When-EVER YET May-BE-COMING that THE spirit OF-THE-TRUTH it-SHALL-BE-WAY-LEADING YOU IN THE TRUTH EVERY NOT for it-SHALL-BE-TALKING FROM self but as-much-as it-SHALL-BE-HEARING it-SHALL-BE-TALKING AND THE COMING it-SHALL-BE-UP-MESSAGING to-YOU

Maybe the translators put 'he' in there for a reason I don't know, but I still believe Holy Spirit is God.

Jesus seemed to always refer everything to the Father, even teaching us to give our prayers, worship and praise to Him. I don't think we are told anywhere to worship Jesus or the Holy Spirit. But really, I think that's between you and God.

 

[Bellicus]

Christianmomof3: I can't remember reading about the word "triune" in my bible. Do you got that word in your bible?

Tavita: I used "it", cause I can't remember reading anywhere in the bible that the Spirit is "he" or "she", and I haven't read anything about if it got a kind of form or is just a spiritual force.

 

[Tavita]

Tavita: I used "it", cause I can't remember reading anywhere in the bible that the Spirit is "he" or "she", and I haven't read anything about if it got a kind of form or is just a spiritual force.

Most bible versions use 'he', you must have a version that reads 'it'.

 

[Bellicus]

In the Norwegian edition I can't find he, she or it. And personally I just write "it" instead of having to write the Holy Spirit with capital letter every time I am referring to it, if your translations show that "he" is the right word, then maybe I should start using that word instead. The only places I can find "he" is when the bible talks about God and the Spirit at the same time, and the "he" is referring to God.

 

[christianmomof3]

Christianmomof3: I can't remember reading about the word "triune" in my bible. Do you got that word in your bible?

Tavita: I used "it", cause I can't remember reading anywhere in the bible that the Spirit is "he" or "she", and I haven't read anything about if it got a kind of form or is just a spiritual force.

the words triune and trinity are not found in the bible - they just help us try to explain God.
The Bible does tell us repeatedly that there is only one God.
There are verses that tell us that the Fathr is God.
There are verses that tell us that Jesus is God.
There are verses that tell us that the Holy Spirit is God.
Taken together, we see that God is three and yet only One.

God is triune—Father, Son, and Spirit. All Three are God, eternal, coexisting, and coinhering eternally. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God. The Father, Son, and Spirit do not exist at different times as three different modes of one God. They are not three separate Gods, but one Triune God. from the book "The Triune God and The Person and Work of Christ" found at http://www.ministrybooks.org/categories.cfm#xBkx

 

[Bellicus]

There are verses that tell us that Jesus is God.
There are verses that tell us that the Holy Spirit is God.

Perhaps you can show me these verses? Cause I can't remember reading them myself.

from the book "The Triune God and The Person and Work of Christ"

I don't trust man-made opinions about God.

 

[Tavita]

In the Norwegian edition I can't find he, she or it. And personally I just write "it" instead of having to write the Holy Spirit with capital letter every time I am referring to it, if your translations show that "he" is the right word, then maybe I should start using that word instead. The only places I can find "he" is when the bible talks about God and the Spirit at the same time, and the "he" is referring to God.

Don't worry Bellicus, I'm not saying you should use 'he', in fact, I like the Greek way of putting it as 'it'. But I'm not going to be pedantic about it.

I'm interested that your Norwegian edition doesn't use he she or it at all. I wouldn't mind reading that version, but I'd have to learn Norwegian first..

 

[christianmomof3]

Perhaps you can show me these verses? Cause I can't remember reading them myself.


I don't trust man-made opinions about God.

that is ok , but that book lists all the verses and it is easier to just point you to the book
however, here are a few more quotes which include the verses:

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God. First Peter 1:2 says, "God the Father." Ephesians 1:17 says, "God...the Father of glory." These verses tell us that the Father is God. Hebrews 1:8 says, "As to the Son...O God." John 1:1 says, "The Word was God." These verses tell us clearly that the Son is God. Acts 5:3-4 says, "Why has Satan filled your heart that you should lie to the Holy Spirit...? You did not lie to men, but to God." This verse definitely tells us that the Spirit is also God.

John 1:1 says, "The Word was God." John 20:28 says, "Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!" Philippians 2:6 says, "Who subsisting in the form of God." All these verses tell us that the Son, Jesus Christ, is God Himself.

Isaiah 9:6: "Unto us a son is given...and his name shall be called...everlasting Father." The Lord Jesus said in John 14:9-10, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father...I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me." Here again the Bible makes it clear to us that Jesus the Son is also the Father. The Father and the Son are one. The Son is even the Father.

Matthew 1:18 says, "Mary...was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit." Verse 20 says, "For that which is begotten in her is of the Holy Spirit." Luke 1:35 says, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you...wherefore also the holy thing which is born will be called, Son of God." These verses tell us that the Son is born of the Holy Spirit. His source was the Holy Spirit.

John 6:46 says, "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except Him Who is from God, He has seen the Father." The word "from" in Greek is "para," which means "by the side of." The sense here is "from-with." The Lord is not only from God, but also with God. While He is from God, He is still with God (John 8:16, 29; 16:27). When you receive the Son, you also receive the Father, because the Father is with Him (1 John 2:23).

First Corinthians 15:45 tells us that "the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit." The "last Adam" here refers to the Son, Jesus, Who died to end the Adamic race. In resurrection He became the life-giving Spirit. Second Corinthians 3:17 says "the Lord is the Spirit." It is exceedingly clear that the Son is not only the Father, but also the Spirit in resurrection.

John 4:24 tells us that "God is Spirit." The Triune God is wholly a matter of Spirit. This refers to God's essence. For example, the essence of a wooden table is wood, so we can say that the table is wood. God's essence is Spirit, so we say God is Spirit. Never think that only one-third of God is Spirit, as some may think. The whole God, the Triune God—Father, Son, and Spirit—is Spirit.

In John 14:26 the Lord (the Son) said, "But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name." Also, in John 15:26 the Lord said, "But when the Comforter comes, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of reality Who proceeds from the Father, He will testify concerning Me." First in 14:26 He says that the Father will send the Spirit; later in 15:26 He says that the Son Himself will send the Spirit. Then who sent the Spirit—the Father or the Son? We must say that the Spirit was sent by both the Father and the Son because, ..., the Father and the Son are one.

In John 14:26, the Holy Spirit comes in the Son's name to be the reality of His name. What is the meaning of "in My name"? The name is the Son Himself, and the Spirit is the person, the being, of the Son. When we call on the name of the Son, we get the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:3). The Son came in the Father's name (John 5:43) because the Son and the Father are one (John 10:30). Now, the Spirit comes in the Son's name because the Spirit and the Son also are one (2 Cor. 3:17). This is the Triune God (the Father, the Son, and the Spirit) reaching us as the Spirit.

 

[Bellicus]

Well, nothing in those quotes tell directly that the Son is God or that the Spirit is God, like you said the bible say. And it certainly don't tell that those three are one. So sorry, but I don't agree with it, cause It is not what the bible tells.

Why would Stephanus that was filled with the Holy Spirit, be stoned to death by the Jewish high priests that was following God? Surely they would not have stoned him, but agreed with him, if following God also means to follow the Spirit.

Why don't Peter, Paul and all the other disciples talk about following God, if following the Spirit is the same thing?

Why would Jesus say that God is the only good one if he is the same one?

Why would Jesus pray to God, if Jesus is God?

How can only God know the time of the second coming of Christ, if Christ him self is God?

Why would not the bible tell: "God and Jesus and the Spirit are the same" directly if this is the truth?

I can go on for a long time asking questions like this, and I can't see how they are answered by claiming God is Triune.

 

[HuntingMan]

The Holy Spirit does not only come from God, He is God. There is only one God and He is Triune - three/one and exists as the Father, Son and Spirit.
The father is the source, the son is God realized and the Spirit is God in us, but they are all only One and are all God.

absolutely agree. The Spirit IS God !

 

[Emmy]

Dear Bellicus. There is no difference between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, they are all God; God in 3 persons, or beings. God-Father created everything, and Man, ( men and women) God made them in His own image. God is Spirit, Bellicus, Holy Spirit, He is everywhere. When we had moved too far away from God`s Holy Law, and needed a Sacrifice, all pure and without guilt, Jesus God-Son, came down to Earth, born as one of us. He reconciled us to God. He also showed us God, as God really is, a loving Heavenly Father, who wanted us back again. After Jesus had paid the price for us, and God had raised Him, Jesus told His disciples: " I am going back to the Father, and we will send the Holy Spirit to finish my work on Earth." Jesus is with the God-Father, to plead our prayers to God, Jesus is our Intercessor. God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy-Spirit, all working together to redeem Mankind, One Great God. I say this humbly and with love, Bellicus. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ. P.S. This might make it bit more clear. When I first accepted Jesus into my heart, I always spoke to Jesus in my heart, now I know it is the Holy Spirit, but there is no difference, Bellicus, Jesus or the Holy Spirit, I know that God is with me.

 

[HuntingMan]

And it certainly don't tell that those three are one. So sorry, but I don't agree with it, cause It is not what the bible tells.

Of course it is your own choice to border on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by deeming God an 'it' if that is your point.

The Spirit of GOD came down upon Christ...

And having been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him.
(Mat 3:16 EMTV)

And Luke says this...

and the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came out of heaven, saying, "You are My beloved Son; in You I have found delight."
(Luk 3:22 EMTV)

So whether you like or agree with it or not, Bellicus, the Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of God...He IS God...period.


I dont see ANY inequity here...

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[Bellicus]

Emmy: I disagree. Jesus comes from God, the Spirit comes from God. Both of them are following Gods will and in that way they are part of him and you can also say they are one with him in this sense, but if you search the bible you will see that Jesus makes difference between himself and God, and the followers of Jesus made difference between God and the Spirit.

Huntingman: Blasphemy because I tell what is and is not in the bible? If you were right, then you could have explained how: God knows when the second coming of Christ will come, and how not Christ himself can know this if Christ himself is the same as God. But you can't can you? You only say I am committing blasphemy because I disagree with a learning that was made by men.

---------------------

Notice a interesting hitorical fact about Trinity:

One explicit Trinitarian passage, called the Comma Johanneum, which is often quoted from the King James Version of 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." is believed to be a later addition. It is commonly found in Latin manuscripts, but is absent from the Greek manuscripts, except for a few late examples, where the passage appears to have been back-translated from the Latin. Erasmus, the compiler of the Textus Receptus, on which the King James Version was based, noticed that the passage was not found in any of the Greek manuscripts at his disposal and refused to include it until presented with an example containing it, which he rightly suspected was concocted after the fact.[34] Although the Latin Church Father, Saint Cyprian, is thought to have referred to the passage,[35] it is now considered not to have been part of the original text, and is omitted from modern translations of the Bible, even from the revision of the Vulgate that is now the official Latin text of the Roman Catholic Church.[36]

Notice that this is a learning that has been in the bible people have read, without ever being written by the one that the wrote the original text. Also think about what Jesus say in the Revelation about those that add things.

 

[HuntingMan]

Huntingman: Blasphemy because I tell what is and is not in the bible? If you were right, then you could have explained how: God knows when the second coming of Christ will come, and how not Christ himself can know this if Christ himself is the same as God. But you can't can you? You only say I am committing blasphemy because I disagree with a learning that was made by men.

What does Jesus not knowing the day and the hour have to do with the Holy Spirit BEING the Spirit of God ?

 

[Bellicus]

What does Jesus not knowing the day and the hour have to do with the Holy Spirit BEING the Spirit of God ?

It have to do with the trinity that you seem to be claiming to be something I have to accept, or else I commit blasphemy to the Holy Spirit. But as I said the trinity is not something the bible tells about, but something some men made up a couple of hundred years after Jesus. It is a catholic/orthodox dogma, but not a biblical truth.

I've never denied that the Spirit is coming from God. God is the one pouring his Spirit out on humanity. But if you read the bible they are never described to be the same. They are talked about differently, acted upon differently, and clearly have different functions. For example: We should not pray to the Spirit, but pray in the Spirit to God. The Spirit is what we follow and God is what we pray to and worship. That's how I look on it from what I've read in the bible.

If trinity were the truth, then we would not need to talk about these three, cause we could just follow God and then we would also follow the rest. We would not need to talk about Jesus and what he did, cause he is the same as God anyway. And we would not need to talk about getting the Holy Spirit, cause according to the trinity learning they are the same thing.

A lot of people believe in God, but not all of them are Christians.

Here's something to think about too: If mockery of God can be forgiven, then why can't mockery of the Holy Spirit be forgiven, if they are the same identical thing?

 

[HuntingMan]

It have to do with the trinity that you seem to be claiming to be something I have to accept, or else I commit blasphemy to the Holy Spirit.

I dont actually remember saying 'you have to accept this Bellicus'....lets NOT exaggerate the facts here.
Calling the SPIRIT of GOD an 'it' is something I personally would never chance.
But see that isnt where this thread ended. Read your OP again. You said we arent to worship or pray to the Holy Spirit... yet Ive shown you that the scripture presentes that the Holy Spirit IS the Spirit OF God.
So whether you buy into the trinity concept or not the Holy Spirit IS Gods Spirit,....so do you say we dont pray to Gods Spirit ?

You took this issue WAY past just calling the Spirit an 'it'...Im not even sure you used that word in the OP at this point.
What I do know is that the Holy Spirit and the 'Spirit of God' are one and the same...thus we are talking about the person of God Himself in whatever capacity.

Add that to the fact that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is deadly...absolutely deadly and NO one who purposefully commits that crime can be forgiven of it.
In my opinion this thread is treading very thin ice...but you know what ? You continue as you see fit...this is one of those rare threads where Im going to bail out now before something get said that I dont want to see.

God bless, Bellicus