The Difference Between Rhema vs Logos vs Graphe

dkbwarrior · Nov 14, 2011

Markus6 said:
Could you possibly post these scriptures? Off the top of my head I can only think of one.

You would think I would know these off the top of my head since I have looked them up and posted them more than once on these fourms in answer to this very question, but I don't. And I honestly don't have the time to do it right now. Mabey later.

Peace...

LinkH · Nov 20, 2011

I know some Charismatics will say that the rhema is superior to the logos, that it is God speaking a fresh word into our lives.

A little research with a Strong's concordance debunks this. I've seen a good debunking by a Greek scholar, too, but it doesn't take much scholarship.

I'd be careful about saying anything is superior to the Logos. Christ is referred to as the Logos.

Words of knowledge and words of wisdom are 'fresh words' that we get on the spot. Why does the Bible use 'logos' to describe them?

K2K · Nov 20, 2011

Faulty said:
Actually, He told them they searched the scriptures, thinking that in them they had life, but they didn't believe the scriptures they searched. Had they believed the scriptures they searched, they would have believed on Him, and had eternal life. The two go together. It's not one or the other.

The two are not the same thing, They don't go together like that! The Scriptures lead you to the Lord.

You have a book which God had written. In it is the explaination to men, that they can get to know the Lord, as in actually having a personal relationship with Him so you can talk to Him. He is not the book, nor is the book Him, as some preach.

So we read the book, but not all of us find Him. Some think there reading the book that tells them to listen to Him, is there listening to Him. They think He and the book are one. That is why they think that searching the Scriptures gives them eternal life.

Indeed if they actualy believed the Scriptures, they would be looking for the person whose name is called The Word of God. As it is they don't believe the Scriptures because they think He and the Scriptures are One, thereby making the Scriptures god.

On this sight I have seen people write: the Scriptures heal, the Scriptures save, the Scriptures are my friend, the Sciptures are the goal, the Scriptures are alive, and promoting the Scriptures as god or somehow one with God.

The Scriptures are a book!!!

Yes they are Holy, inspired by God, used by God to teach us, and it is clear to see that they have words that God had men write down, so it is a very special and unigue book, but still a book. It is not alive, it does not heal, it is not the goal, your friend, it does not save you, it does not heal, nor is it one with God like some might have you think.

We may call the Graphe - the Scriptures - the Word of God because it a book that God had written, but it is not the Logos which is told about in the Scriptures which was with God in the beginning and is God. That is a person and not a book.

The Book, if you believe what is written in the Book, will lead you to the person know as the Word of God. So they don't go together but one leads you to the other. He will then of course explain the Book that He wrote some more to you, but He does not only do that. He explains so much more than just whats written in the Book.

Heck - I have had Him help me prepare meals I was cooking and tell me the fastest way home during rush hour, You won't find those type of instructions in the Book you are making your god.

So when someone tells me 'He speaks to me while I read the Word' I wonder why are they not saying He speaks to them all the time? Are they really preaching a personal relationship with the Lord?

YOU GOTTA KNOW THIS GOD! YOU GOTTA HEAR HIS VOICE! AND THE BIBLE IS NOT HIS VOICE, IT IS HIS BOOK!

So it is not 'Logos is the written Word and Rhema is the spoken Word' It's 'Graphe is the written Word, Rhema the spoken Word, and Logos is the One who speaks and told some of those He spoke to to write down what He said and He made a book out of it.'

Jn 1- In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him.

So do you believe the Scriptures? If so the Word is a He that was in the beginning with God and through Him all things were created. So if you believe the Scriptures which tell you about Him you wll be looking for a Him. He will become the Word of God to you and not the book created through Him at some point after the beginning.

Alive_Again · Nov 21, 2011

A book is not alive. A person is alive.

If people were hearing from Him then they would know Him.

A word is something spoken to you, but a vision is something you see.

Your words seem to assume that their is a disconnect between the seeking of God in the scripture and walking in the Spirit. God has described the truth contained in what we call "the Bible" or "scripture" as the Word of God countless times.

It IS good to tell people to have a close personal relationship with the Word of God as a person, but you can do that by prayerfully reading the scriptures or what God has repeatedly called "My Word". It was given for our understanding because God speaks primarily to your spirit, not your mind. Doing this with the scriptures (if you prefer to call them) keeps another spirit from saying something contrary to what is already revealed. What He has already spoken. It's still powerful even today! When one seeks the truth in the Lordship of Jesus, you hear His voice (even in scripture). You may not get any "words" in your hearing, but God is surely speaking. We don't have to wait for a prophetic word from God to know that He is speaking. He does do this, but that is not the norm.

They think the Bible can be alive, so it can be their friend, and it can perhaps heal them, and even can save them.

So, people are seeking the Lord in the scripture. He is our friend and considering how many times His Spirit has quickened (or made alive) what was previously given to another, we know that the scriptures are something akin to 'medium' that God uses. Words in our language for the benefit of our mind. We can meditate on them in our minds and (seeking the mind of Christ) our spirits may gradually receive from them. He Himself has instructed the church to do this. There is NO idolatry in doing so.

Meditating on the "scripture" for the seeker of healing or whatever other promise of God is a good prescription to get that Word inside of you. You can approach the Word (as in the scripture) to receive the revelation of healing. The Spirit of God confirms the "Word" with signs following. There is no disconnect.

As I stated previously, even if you in your walk became oppressed or hardened, or whatever, the seeker can approach God in the scripture in the hope of finding the quickened Word, and thus restoring your relationship. Read Ps 119. It's full of prayers of those who hope in God making alive the scripture and breathing life into them again. It's the same prayer we're praying today.

So Jesus told them that they search the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life, but didn't come to Him so that they might live.

And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 5:38-40 (KJV)

He was speaking to those that were not in Him. That's not who we're talking about in this thread. We're talking about Christians who want to love God and walk in His ways. He wasn't dissing those who were searching the scriptures.

...in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)

It is possible to get hung up on the letter. This Word is our inheritance and we can approach the scriptures/the Word without guilt expecting to receive. I was so set free when God told me to "study" the scriptures. Dig deep into them and lay hold of them. It's a great love of mine.

Alive_Again · Nov 21, 2011

If you do not come to know the Word of God as your Lord; the One who gives you instructions, He will tell you 'I never knew you', and you will not pass through judgement!

We know Him by His Spirit. He moves us and guides us. The unity of spirit is to "know" God intimately. He will not turn away those who seek to do His will. Those who move forward even without prophetic words can walk intimately.

If you are not hearing from Him, you need to seek to start hearing from Him.

God speaks to our spirits in a manner that is usually not in your native language. They are predominantly impressions in your spirit. This is the primary way that God speaks. If you are a Christian, it's not "if you are not hearing from Him". You ARE hearing from Him. It is possible in man's rebellion to let your hearing grow cold. But anyone, wherever they are at can and does hear God in their heart. It's time to acknowledge the work of the Holy Spirit.

If you waited around until words popped into your mind, you could wait a long time. Morever, the young Christian seemingly might NEVER hear a still small voice. God said their is a "ripening" process that goes on in your spirit. The Word must be received in the heart and promises believed before the full maturity of revelation takes place. The seed of the Word grows, but their is no immediate harvest. The fruit of certain promises comes later. God is seeking to move all believers into a greater level of hearing. PTL! To deny that our faithful shepherd is speaking is to believe a lie. His Word says that His sheep hear His voice (That's His job). To know that it is not the ways our minds would ought is a good step of faith that within us God molds and moves us. We get these impressions many times while reading the scriptures/Word of God. (That's what He called it, not me.)

For those not filled with the Spirit, their are millions of evangelical Christians who might NEVER even once hear a prophetic word they could point to, but God is speaking to them too. It is no lie.

He is the door to heaven, and if someone is trying to get you to believe that you will get in by knowing the Scriptures, going to chruch, or any other bits of work, it is they and not me who are trying to pull a sleight of hand.

That is what the dead might do. Those who seek to love and obey God needn't worry about seeking God in the Word, staying in fellowship, working the works in their heart.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2 Peter 1:19 (KJV)

...Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation... 2 Peter 1:20 (KJV)
...think that the scripture saith in vain... James 4:4-5 (KJV)
...the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 3:15 (KJV)
...unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10:35 (KJV)
...Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Matt 22:29 (KJV)
...Apollos, ...mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. Acts 18:24 (KJV)

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:4 (KJV)

...ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
... How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2 Cor 3:6,8 (KJV)

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth
2 Tim 2:15 (KJV)

It's natural to have a deep hunger for the scripture/Word of God in our quest to know God. I don't think we should second guess our desire for the Word in the Word.

There is old and new wine, but no condemnation/idolatry for partaking of the old.

Alive_Again · Nov 21, 2011

It is possible to confine your interest in God's Word as an intellectual pursuit. God is ready and willing to be a contributor in your time in the Word.

I'm reminded of this as I recall a spiritual dream God gave me once when I was told as a young Christian that I had to listen for "voices" to follow God with and that all my Bible study was off base. I used to feel real guilty doing it and seldom had any peace.

A couple points in my dream were that I had a claim ticket at a will call window for my inheritance/blessing in the Word. I'd hand it to the person at the "will call" and he'd vanish for a minute. I grabbed the box on the counter and took off like a thief! There was more, but in the end the Lord Himself showed up to rescue me from the mindset I had accepted about getting into the Word. God wants to bless us in His Word and their is no need to be anxious or guilty about receiving from Him in it.

New_Wineskin · Nov 22, 2011

K2K said:
The are two greek words, Logos and Rhema, that are translated as the english word "WORD" in your Bible. And there is a greek word, Graphe, that is translated as the english word 'Scripture' in your Bible

In our current Christian ease, we also call the Scriptures (Graphe in Greek) 'The Word.'

So we tell people to read and study 'The Word', meaning the Scriptures (Graphe).

Graphe means "Holy Writ". The Scriptures are holy writings because they are all inspired by God. Yet your Bible does not say the Graphe (Holy Writ) is alive and active! Because we now also call the Scriptures 'the Word' some of us are getting confussed and thinking the Scriptures are somehow alive and active. They are writings not a living being.

It all reminds me of the Abbot and Costello skit, 'Who's on first'. Where there is confusion because Costello doesn't understand that "Who" is the name of the first baseman. Many of us do not understand that "The Word of God" is the name of first person that we really need to get to know!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

It's important to understand that He [the Word of God] is a person, just like it is important to understand that Who was the name of the first baseman in the Abbott and Costello skit.

Costello: Are you the manager?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: You gonna be the coach too?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: And you don't know the fellows' names.
Abbot: Well I should.
Costello: Well who's on first?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: I mean the fellow's name.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy on first.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The first baseman.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy playing...
Abbot: Who is on first!
Costello: I'm asking you who's on first.
Abbot: That's the man's name.
Costello: That's who's name.
Abbot: Yes

I sometime feel like I am in that same skit when trying to tell people that The Word of God is the name of the One we are trying to get to know. He is called that because He tells each of us the words from God. He is not the Holy Writ (Scriptures) He is a person that you too can get to know and thus hear from.

Now if you are going to manage and coach a team of other Christains, you should know the man playing first base and His name!!!

Graphe should only be translated as "Scripture" when the adjective for holy/sacred is aassigned to the word or the context is clear that the Scriptures are being addressed . As is , it is one of the most blatantly mistranslated words .

With respect to "the word" , the term is used almost exclusively in the New Testsament" to refer to the Gospel - certainly not to the Scriptures . The idea that "the word" means "Scriptures" only leads back to the idea that the Law brings righteousness and salvation . While Logos and Rhema are usually translated as "word" , the closer meaning is "message" . And , what is the message o the New Covenant ? - the Gospel - that is the word that saves us ( Romans ) .

Alive_Again · Nov 22, 2011

The idea that "the word" means "Scriptures" only leads back to the idea that the Law brings righteousness and salvation .

Surely the ways of God save. To delight in His ways is to delight in Him. It's all about the heart. If it's just the head, then no understanding is present.

It's about alignment. If the rhema is speaking now and being quickened, and the logos reflects that which has been given and is eternal, and is waiting for the (seeker's) spirit to align itself in purpose to experience life.

The Words of God are powerful and even the enemy knows them as absolute truth. The Spirit of God watches over the Word to perform it. So the heart aligned "listener" partakes of the power to the extent of the purpose and will of God in accordance with the faith of the believer embracing it.

While Logos and Rhema are usually translated as "word" , the closer meaning is "message" . And , what is the message o the New Covenant ? - the Gospel - that is the word that saves us ( Romans ) .

The power of God unto salvation for the believer. The good news has the power built into it because it is the intent and purpose of God.

K2K · Nov 22, 2011

Alive_Again said:
Your words seem to assume that their is a disconnect between the seeking of God in the scripture and walking in the Spirit. God has described the truth contained in what we call "the Bible" or "scripture" as the Word of God countless times.

The Scriptures call Jesus Christ the Word of God. That is His name, according to the Scriptures.

Jesus Christ is the truth, according to what is written in the Scriptures!!

Jesus Christ is not the Scriptures, according to what is written in the Scirptures!!!

There were Jews searching the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life, but were not coming to Jesus Christ so that they might live!!!!

We don't find God in the Scriptures, we find God within us!!

So it is not surprising to find some today who search the Scirptures thinking that in them they have eternal life. Someone like that must think the Scriptures are alive. They must think Jesus and the Scriptures are one. That He lives in the Scriptures. They have to think reading the Scriptures is the same thing and hearing from God.

So they read the Bible and say things like the Bible lives, the Bible heals, the Bible is my friend, and the Bible is the Truth.

My friends -- Jesus Christ lives (and in us), Jesus Christ heals, Jesus Christ can be your friend, and Jesus Christ is the Truth - and that is according to what is written in the Scriptures.

Still some will search the Scriptures thinking in them they have life, but will not seek the voice of the Lord to guide them through out the day. There is nothing new under the Sun.

It is because people search the Scripture instead of trying to listen to the Lord that many people who casted out demons in His name, healed the sick in His name, and prophesied in His name will be told by Him in that day, "I NEVER KNEW YOU!"

How sad is that!!

That people tried to do work for God their during their lives, even all the things written above, only to be told that He never knew them. And that because they did what they thought the Scirptures said, instead of listening to the Lord and doing what He told them to do, as was explained in the Scriptures.

You get to know a perons by listening to what He has to say to you personally, not by reading a book that they wrote.

So when you stand face to face with Him in that day, are you too going to try to point out to Him all the things you did for Him according to what you read in His book?

Or are you going to be able to say 'Wow, all those times we walked and talked together though your Spirit, now I get to finally meet you face to face!"

And that is what the Scriptures explain to us.

We study the Graphe (the Scriptures), we get to know the Logos (the Lord), and we listen to the Rhema (words said by Him to us).

The Logos (The Word) is a who!!! The Graphe (The Holy Scriptures) are a what!! So we may say The Word, and The Word, but the Word we are preaching is a who!! He is on first base!!

K2K · Nov 22, 2011

New_Wineskin said:
Graphe should only be translated as "Scripture" when the adjective for holy/sacred is aassigned to the word or the context is clear that the Scriptures are being addressed . As is , it is one of the most blatantly mistranslated words .

With respect to "the word" , the term is used almost exclusively in the New Testsament" to refer to the Gospel - certainly not to the Scriptures . The idea that "the word" means "Scriptures" only leads back to the idea that the Law brings righteousness and salvation . While Logos and Rhema are usually translated as "word" , the closer meaning is "message" . And , what is the message o the New Covenant ? - the Gospel - that is the word that saves us ( Romans ) .

Yes - trying to follow the Graphe (Holy Scriptures) just leads us back to trying to fulfill the Law.

Jesus Christ and the fact that we can hear from Him is the message. It's the Good News!!

The same One that David spoke about when he said, "The Lord said to My Lord", can now be your Lord too. Because of the cross we can see that He will forgive us all our sins, so you (any of you) can now have a personal relationship with Him our Lord.

And I mean a personal relationship like any other personal relationship. You can walk with HIm and have conversations about any subject you like through out the day.

He is spirit, but is a person that you can get to know like any other person.

How I would like to see that Liar gone, who keeps telling people the Lord is a book.

When you ask Jesus Christ to come into your life and be Lord of your life, you are not asking a book but a person whom you can talk to. And what a person He is: The Wonderful Counselor (because He gives you counsel), Mighty God (because He is powerful), Everlasting Father (because you are His child and He loves you), and Prince of Peace (because He give you peace an comfort in your life).

So talk to Him and get to know Him and quit listening to that voice that tells you He is the Book. He is the Teacher who'll have you read the Book, but He is not the Book. And He doesn't live in the Book, He lives in you if you will let Him.

Alive_Again · Nov 22, 2011

Jesus Christ is not the Scriptures, according to what is written in the Scirptures!!!

Yes, I have that part. I understand God is not a book. When you speak and stand behind what you say, "You have my word". God's Word is far more authoritative than our speech. Jesus has said, "You have My Word" when referring to the scriptures.

I believe that you can take the scriptures and apply all that it says about the Word of God when you are seeking truth from the heart. You'll find the attributes of the living Word as you seek God with your heart, in truth. You'll find "Him" in the scriptures.

There were Jews searching the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life, but were not coming to Jesus Christ so that they might live!!!!

Unrenegerate Jews who did not seek the Lordship of Jesus in their lives. Far different from Christians who do.

We don't find God in the Scriptures, we find God within us!!

I sought after God for years. It wasn't until years later that I was drawn after His Lordship. I was confused and bound by the enemy. I found God while reading the scriptures. I don't recall praying anything! I was seeking truth (I found it!). I was reborn (I didn't even known it.). There was no sinner's prayer (I was reading.).

So it is not surprising to find some today who search the Scirptures thinking that in them they have eternal life.

It is not surprising for those who received Jesus, the living Word, and encountered Him while reading the written Word of God. I realize that it's a relationship with the living God that brings us life. He's the One chooses this Word as a conduit. It's kind of like feeding a stray cat. He tends to come back to where the food is! It's innate. If I keep getting fed from the written Word (by the living Word), it's not surprise as you say, to search them knowing that we draw resurrection life from the inner revelation of that Word.

Someone like that must think the Scriptures are alive. They must think Jesus and the Scriptures are one.

The truth in the scriptures is a living truth. Only the true seeker and believer in Jesus will know Him in this way. It's hard for us to comprehend how someone's "Word" is living as a person. How that Word can be just like it was when it was first uttered (within the intent of the Word as it was given). I can't explain it either. I don't worship the book. There are different versions also and it is not the book that is God. The revelation is divine and as it is given aligned with the intent of our heart with His intent = power!

So they read the Bible and say things like the Bible lives, the Bible heals, the Bible is my friend, and the Bible is the Truth.

You're the first person I've ever heard say this. However you'd like to rephrase it, the Bible contains the truth. They are His testimonies. They endure for a thousand generations. When you get a revelation of them, they become a rock you can stand on.

Still some will search the Scriptures thinking in them they have life, but will not seek the voice of the Lord to guide them through out the day. There is nothing new under the Sun.

All things have become new and all things are of God (to the man of the Spirit). I seek the voice of the Lord in the passages because He uses them to direct my life. He forms an understanding within that you cannot really receive any other way.

The early church was a baby church and they did not benefit as we do from having the scriptures. The prophetic church was strong, but even we do not put the same emphasis on prophecy as we do the written Word. This is wise, because we can be deceived.

It is because people search the Scripture instead of trying to listen to the Lord that many people who casted out demons in His name, healed the sick in His name, and prophesied in His name will be told by Him in that day, "I NEVER KNEW YOU!"

You keep assuming that people who listen to the Lord in the scriptures are not listening to the Lord. I'm sure that their are many in that day who do not walk in intimacy with the Lord who will told that. Their will be many who give heed to the written Word and the Spirit and will be received into the kingdom.

BTW - You can be completely backslidden and prophesy. You can move in your office (without knowing Him intimately) and cast out devils, heal the sick, etc. The Lord will use whoever He can if they're available and willing. (He can move in you to make you willing too.) He used a mule.

That people tried to do work for God their during their lives, even all the things written above, only to be told that He never knew them. And that because they did what they thought the Scirptures said, instead of listening to the Lord and doing what He told them to do, as was explained in the Scriptures.

We are accountable for performing the law of love within our hearts (as He writes it within us). It will or should line up with the written Word.

You get to know a perons by listening to what He has to say to you personally, not by reading a book that they wrote.

The language of the Spirit of God more often than not is formed within you and is not in "English". If you want understanding, you have the scriptures for your mind. If you're "in Christ" Jesus does not check out of the understanding process.

When the Word says, "If any lack (wisdom or) understanding", it is the exception, not the norm. The normal Christian life is to have understanding.

dkbwarrior · Nov 22, 2011

K2K said:
The Scriptures call Jesus Christ the Word of God. That is His name, according to the Scriptures.

We study the Graphe (the Scriptures), we get to know the Logos (the Lord), and we listen to the Rhema (words said by Him to us).

While I fully agree with you that Jesus is the Word of God, The scriptures are also the Word of God, and we are to study them. Timothy tells us to study the WORD.

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Timothy 2:15

Also, the way the we get to know Him, and partake of His divine nature is through the revelation of the exceeding great and precious promises:

3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
-2 Peter 1:3-4

These promises of course, are referring to the provisions of the covenant that God cut with Abraham, and revealed to his seed (the Jews, and then the church), that then became the scriptures that we know today, and was confimed on the cross of calvary. Those promises are found in only one place, and that is in the Word of God, the scriptures that we are to study.

However, it is true, that the scriptures by themselves are nothing but a collection of information, knowledge if you will. It takes the revelation of the Holy Spirit to receive what God has said in His Word. But that is why we have all been given the Spirit of Christ.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
-1 Corinthians 2:12-13

I like to look at it this way. We all know that Jesus compared the Word of God to a seed. Now a seed is not the full grown whole, but it contains all of the information of the whole in the foarm of data that we call dna. The scriptures are that seed, they are the dna of God. God spent 3,000 years getting His Word into the earth in the form of a covenant between Himself and Abraham. That Word was planted with every person that believed it and received it. Finally, when all was in place, He spoke the final Word to Mary, by the mouth of an angel. She believed it, and therefore that seed began to grow in her womb, the seed of the Word of God. Jesus was born, but without any knowledge or wisdom from His eternity with the Father. But--He found Himself in the Scriptures, in the covenant between the Father and Abraham, and He grew in wisdom.

Peace...

K2K · Nov 22, 2011

dkbwarrior said:
While I fully agree with you that Jesus is the Word of God, The scriptures are also the Word of God, and we are to study them. Timothy tells us to study the WORD.

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Timothy 2:15

, and He grew in wisdom.

Peace...

The Bible does not tell you to study the Word, it tells you to study the Scriptures!!! But because we know call both Jesus Christ and the Scritpures 'The Word' you might think it said to study the Word, but it is actually written 'Scritpures'.

2 Tim 3:14-16 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scriptures is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness.

It is the Scriptures we study but it is the Lord from whom we learn. The Scriptures help with discerning the word of truth, but the Scriptures are not the word of truth. That is; we need to discern if what we are hearing is good or evil, and studying the Scriptures may help you but if you are not actually hearing from the Lord (the Word) then you might still be confussed like the Jews who searched the Scriptures but did not come to know the Lord.

So it while it sounds great to say the Bible tells you to study the Word, and that is fine to say if you are talking about studying the Bible. But if you are thinking studying the Bible is the same thing as hearing the Lord talk to you, you are wrong. If it was the same thing the Jews who were searching the Scriptures for eternal life would have all known Him. But they didn't.

The Pharisees truly thought they were saved and were 'a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.' but they were not. Though they studied the Scritpures and felt the Scriptures were the words from God to live by, they didn't hear the voice of the Lord. So He told them:

Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

Therefore reading and studying the Scriptures does not mean you know God!! Reading the Scriptures are not the same thing as hearing the words or God!!!

The Scriptures are called Graphe in Greek. Today Christians call the Graphe - the Scriptures, or the Bible, or the Word. And that is all fine. I am not trying to redefine what we say. Yet it is important to understand the Graphe (Scriptures, Bible, or the Word) is not the Lord (the Word). He is alive, not the Scriptures, Bible or the Word (if you are using it to mean the Scriptures).

If you confuse studying the Scriptures for actually knowing the Lord, you are liable to wind up like the Pharisees and Jews who were certain that their studying the Scripturs was the same thing as knowing the Lord.!!

How is it some don't understand what I am saying?

Wouldn't a person that regularly was hearing the Lord speak to him undertand that He is not the Scriptures but the One the Scriptures tells us about?

For example this morning I heard Him tell me, "Karl, come and sit down and talk to me." I had started working on my business, but after hearing Him speak to me I went over to the chair and listened to Him. He had me open up to Jer. 47:6-7. and gave me a teaching about how some say that He is sometimes quite, but that is not true, He explained. He is always standing at the door and knocking with His voice (see Rev 3:20) His voice (the word He speaks to you) is the sword of the spirit which rightly devides.

Jer 47:6, "Ah, sword of the Lord, How long will you not be quiet? Withdraw into your sheath; Be at reast and stay still.

Jer 47:7 How can it be quiet, Whe the Lord has given it an order?...

The Scriptures do not speak! It is the Spirit that speaks the words God has for us. Jeremiah was not reading Scriptures when he wrote, but was hearing from the Spirit, who was instructed to speak what He heard.

It was the Spirit who told me "come sit down with me" this morning and gave me a teaching by using the Scriptures. The Spirit used the Scriptures, but He is not the Scriptures. Anybody can pick up the Bible and read, but clearly not all are hearing the Spirit.

Jn 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak...

So is it by studying the Scriptures which you know the truth or by listening to the words the Spirit speaks to you personally that you will know the truth?

According to the Scriptures, it is the Spirit (not the Scriptures) who guides you into all truth!!

So is the Word of God we are preaching a who or a what?

My friends -- Who is on first base -- and His name is called the Word of God!! Please seek Him and His voice which you can hear!! He will have you read the Bible, but He is not the Bible!!

Faulty · Nov 22, 2011

K2K said:
The Bible does not tell you to study the Word, it tells you to study the Scriptures!!! But because we know call both Jesus Christ and the Scritpures 'The Word' you might think it said to study the Word, but it is actually written 'Scritpures'.

2 Tim 3:14-16 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scriptures is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness.

It is the Scriptures we study but it is the Lord from whom we learn.

I know this won't fit your description, but that "whom" is the plural form, not singular, and the word "them isn't in the manuscripts. So, Timothy learned the scriptures, from plural persons from his childhood.

Back up a few paragraphs and we read, "I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice and now, I am sure, dwells in you as well." 2 Tim 1:5

Interesting, a plurality of persons from his childhood who taught Timothy the scriptures. Hey, it fits!

K2K · Nov 22, 2011

Faulty said:
I know this won't fit your description, but that "whom" is the plural form, not singular, and the word "them isn't in the manuscripts. So, Timothy learned the scriptures, from plural persons from his childhood.

Back up a few paragraphs and we read, "I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice and now, I am sure, dwells in you as well." 2 Tim 1:5

Interesting, a plurality of persons from his childhood who taught Timothy the scriptures. Hey, it fits!

Did Timothy learn the Scriptures from his grandmother and mother, or did he learn them from God who also taught his grandmother and mother also. We see God in a plural form (Father, Son, Spirit).

We should remember faith comes from hearing, and hearing for a word from God.

So do we learn the Scriptures from others or the Lord. Who is the Teacher? Since it is written that they will all be taught by God, then perhaps we should make it our goal to learn the Scriptures by listening to Him?

If we say we learn them form others, then the Pharisees can make that same claim, but they didn't learn them from the Lord because they didn't hear His voice.

I'm not saying that the Lord can't use others to show us things, but if we don't know and listen to Him our Teacher we have a problem.

Alive_Again · Nov 23, 2011

It is the Scriptures we study but it is the Lord from whom we learn. The Scriptures help with discerning the word of truth, but the Scriptures are not the word of truth.

I couldn't count the number of times the Lord has said phrases like, "Read in My Word", "My Word says", etc. We know the book is not God. Yet somehow God can tell us to take the scriptures and identify them as "My Word" (and breathe life into them when saying it), drawing us back again and again.

So it while it sounds great to say the Bible tells you to study the Word, and that is fine to say if you are talking about studying the Bible.

We meditate on His testimonies and statutes. We speak what He has said and sow it into our hearts. God's involved in every part of the process.

Though they studied the Scritpures and felt the Scriptures were the words from God to live by, they didn't hear the voice of the Lord. So He told them:

They were. They did not have the Spirit of God inside them as unbelievers, but they esteemed them as God told them to. They delighted in them. They did not understand them fully.

Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

You can't wave this at a believer who is a seeker of truth. They couldn't hear them because they didn't have a heart for them. You have to want to do His will. Anyone can become dull of hearing but as a submissive seeker we hear the Words of God in the Word of God because we are of God.

Therefore reading and studying the Scriptures does not mean you know God!! Reading the Scriptures are not the same thing as hearing the words or God!!!

Why don't we call it "hearing" the Words of God in the scripture. And yes, under these conditions, we know God. We pray in the scriptures, call out to God within them, reflect on quickened truth, speak what He says in the scripture. His Spirit works and it causes ripples in the Spirit world.

If you confuse studying the Scriptures for actually knowing the Lord, you are liable to wind up like the Pharisees and Jews who were certain that their studying the Scriptures was the same thing as knowing the Lord.!!

If we're not seekers then we will be confused. That is not the typical behavior for a Christian who could easily find more carnal pursuits than reading the Bible if he wanted to be carnal. We don't have to question our motives for reading, studying, or meditating in the written Word.

How is it some don't understand what I am saying?

As a seeker, I don't accept a Bible venture without the Holy Spirit, even if I'm a little oppressed.

For example this morning I heard Him tell me, "Karl, come and sit down and talk to me."

That is as a prophetic utterance. That is not the norm that God communicates with His people. It is God's own choosing to manifest in this way when He pleases. To imply that God's people are missing it of their own accord and not hearing God otherwise is a deception.

Hearing the Holy Spirit respond to our spirits when reading the written Word is probably the number one way to receive from God (even more so when praying in the Spirit).

The Scriptures do not speak! It is the Spirit that speaks the words God has for us.

That is the point. God Himself nurtures this relationship with Him in the written Word. Guess what happens? The scriptures begin to speak! They register in your spirit and the life of God is ministered in a feeding that really only takes place from this encounter in the Word.

So is it by studying the Scriptures which you know the truth or by listening to the words the Spirit speaks to you personally that you will know the truth?

You can know for a certainty that a seeking Christian will have the Holy Spirit doing what He does as we read the scriptures.

dkbwarrior · Nov 23, 2011

dkbwarrior said:
While I fully agree with you that Jesus is the Word of God, The scriptures are also the Word of God, and we are to study them. Timothy tells us to study the WORD.

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Timothy 2:15

K2K said:
The Bible does not tell you to study the Word, it tells you to study the Scriptures!!! But because we know call both Jesus Christ and the Scritpures 'The Word' you might think it said to study the Word, but it is actually written 'Scritpures'.

No, I don't think it says to study the Word, the verse above clearly says to study and rightly divide the WORD. And again no, it is not "...written 'Scriptures'..." as you say; rather, the phrase "...the word..." in the above verse is translated from the Greek word logos. It is the logos that we are to study and to rightly divide.

Also, I don't call the scriptures the Word because that is what everyone else does. I call the scriptures the Word because the scriptures call themselves the Word, which is what we see in the above verse from Timothy. If you doubt it just read Psalm 119.

K2K said:
So is the Word of God we are preaching a who or a what?

My friends -- Who is on first base -- and His name is called the Word of God!! Please seek Him and His voice which you can hear!! He will have you read the Bible, but He is not the Bible!!

This makes no sense to me at all. You seem to be implying that when we preach the gospel, those words are a who, but if it is written, (in the form of scripture), then those words are no longer a who, but a what.

Words are simply vehicles that carry information. The can be spoken, written, signed, or even brailled. It is not the medium used to convey the information that makes it inspired, but the information itself. Jesus is called the Word of God because His Words, His life, and His actions reveal information about the Father to us. The scriptures are called the Word of God for the same reason, because they reveal information about the Father to us.

The written Words are as inspired as the spoken ones, and as inspired today as they were the day that they were written down. They are the Word of God. They were clothed in flesh and walked among us. And the Spirit is our guide to lead us through a process of revelation of the Word of God, which contains the mind of God.

Peace...

dkbwarrior · Nov 23, 2011

dkbwarrior said:
15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Timothy 2:15

No, I don't think it says to study the Word, the verse above clearly says to study and rightly divide the WORD. And again no, it is not "...written 'Scriptures'..." as you say; rather, the phrase "...the word..." in the above verse is translated from the Greek word logos. It is the logos that we are to study and to rightly divide.

Also, I don't call the scriptures the Word because that is what everyone else does. I call the scriptures the Word because the scriptures call themselves the Word, which is what we see in the above verse from Timothy. If you doubt it just read Psalm 119.

This makes no sense to me at all. You seem to be implying that when we preach the gospel, those words are a who, but if it is written, (in the form of scripture), then those words are no longer a who, but a what.

Words are simply vehicles that carry information. The can be spoken, written, signed, or even brailled. It is not the medium used to convey the information that makes it inspired, but the information itself. Jesus is called the Word of God because His Words, His life, and His actions reveal information about the Father to us. The scriptures are called the Word of God for the same reason, because they reveal information about the Father to us.

The written Words are as inspired as the spoken ones, and as inspired today as they were the day that they were written down. They are the Word of God. They were clothed in flesh and walked among us. And the Spirit is our guide to lead us through a process of revelation of the Word of God, which contains the mind of God.

Peace...

I wanted to add, that the scriptures are always the Word of God. However, until they are quickened to us personally by the work of the Holy Spirit, they are just paper and ink (to us); yet the information contained therein remains the Word of God, whether we recognize it and know it or not. Just as many people in the days of the disciples met and talked to Jesus, and did not know or recognize Him, yet He remained the Word of God.

Peace...

Alive_Again · Nov 23, 2011

Not to diminish the prophetic speaking of the Lord in our lives. It is the Lord's desire for His church to mature to where we are hearing in this way more and more.

A few things that the Lord had shared that was so beautiful about our time in the Word (scriptures with His presence, as I see it).

He had shared that time in the scriptures was as intimate as time in worship. Obviously we have to have the heart-set for that to be real. Our union is in the truths that we speak as we proclaim His Word, not only over our own lives, but with others. Our whole life is a fellowship and the transformation of our souls in the Word (with His Spirit) is part of that fellowship. His Word is sown into us and as we lay hold of it and make it our very lives, we abide in it. It is a time of joy for the Lord when we make His truths the foundation for our lives.

Don't feel like we're beating you up on this issue brother because everything the Lord has shared with us regarding His written Word (with His Spirit) is the most precious thing we have. "Word of Faith" people are "Word people" We don't want to associate it as something separate or even idolatrous. Since our hearing accompanies our time in the Word (assuming we're listening), our faith is more alive and we trust the foundation of truth God has given us. It doesn't end there, but it's a wonderful provision we embrace.

As you say, it is possible to disconnect (no doubt by means of a cold heart) and miss the very revelation intended to accompany them. Let's just take it as an admonition to remember and expect revelation in our time in the Word and not just a perusal of a collection of facts.

That's the joy of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Word opens up in a more perfect way because the Holy Spirit gives us a release from His Word into the garden that is our hearts in a real way.

K2K · Nov 23, 2011

Alive_Again said:
I couldn't count the number of times the Lord has said phrases like, "Read in My Word", "My Word says", etc. We know the book is not God. Yet somehow God can tell us to take the scriptures and identify them as "My Word" (and breathe life into them when saying it), drawing us back again and again.

I find this interesting. In the Scriptures we can read where Jesus said "hear my words', and asked "do you have ears to hear". The Scriptures were available, but where did He say "Read in My Word". However He speaks to us in our language. Indeed He didn't say 'read' or 'hear' did He, because those are english words. If you personal name for the Bible is His Word, then that would probably what you would hear when He put the impression to read the Scriptures. But still the point He made to the people He talked to was, 'Do you have ears to hear. So is that your message or our you preaching salvation through the Scriptures as the Word of God?

Mk 4:23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.

Mk 7:18 Having eyes, do you not see? and having ears, do you not hear?

Lk 6:47 Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them..

Lk 11:27 But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."

Lk 14:35 ... He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Mat 17:5..."This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased, listen to Him.

Now the first words I heard from Him were "READ YOUR BIBLE", and so I do expect that someone listening to Him would read and study their Bible. But the message the Father had was "This is My believed Son, with whom I am well-please, listen to Him".

Isn't your message the same as the Father's?

The Difference Between Rhema vs Logos vs Graphe

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