The Devil Has to Pay Back Sevenfold - It's Not Seven Times?

[ByronArn]

My wife and I went to a Charismatic church last night for their prayer meeting. My wife shared what happened at her work that day- one of her coworkers had been mugged in the parking lot at work at gunpoint, and the theif stole her car. The pastor introduced us to the concept of the Sevenfold payback. Apparently, since Satan was behind the mugging, Satan owed her (My wife's coworker) 7 times what he stole from her. And the pastor began praying, demanding that Satan make recompense sevenfold.

He based this (god will restore 7 times what the enemy has stolen scripture) upon Proverbs 6:31

"But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; He shall give all the substance of his house."​

I had never heard this before, although I grew up in a Charismatic non-denominational church that seemed very simillar to this one (minus the Hebraic roots I grew up with [keeping the Old Covenant Festivals, for example], but including the speaking in tongues, an emphasis on spiritual warfare and resisting Satan, etc). Is this concept a new one? Have you ever heard of it before? What do you think about it?

Here is a link that seems to describe the idea pretty much in detail. The Sevenfold Payback | Evangel Tabernacle

 

[Tobias]

That's Old Covenant law, and it applied to humans. We can't just skip through the Law and pick a few details we want to keep, while saying the rest is abolished citing the epistles of Paul, can we?


Also, wouldn't you need to prove in court that Satan is the one who stole from you? I mean, yes he is a known thief. But in this instance the actual thief may have been someone else. We have laws against blaming crimes on the nearest previously convicted felon, and the burden of proof lays with the accuser.



I would caution anyone away from trying to receive gifts from Satan.

 

[Frogster]

My wife and I went to a Charismatic church last night for their prayer meeting. My wife shared what happened at her work that day- one of her coworkers had been mugged in the parking lot at work at gunpoint, and the theif stole her car. The pastor introduced us to the concept of the Sevenfold payback. Apparently, since Satan was behind the mugging, Satan owed her (My wife's coworker) 7 times what he stole from her. And the pastor began praying, demanding that Satan make recompense sevenfold. He based this upon Proverbs 6:31 ("but if [the theif] is found, he shall restore seven times. He shall give all the wealth of his house." [World English Bible])

I had never heard this before, although I grew up in a Charismatic non-denominational church that seemed very simillar to this one (minus the Hebraic roots I grew up with [keeping the Old Covenant Festivals, for example], but including the speaking in tongues, an emphasis on spiritual warfare and resisting Satan, etc). Is this concept a new one? Have you ever heard of it before? What do you think about it?

Here is a link that seems to describe the idea pretty much in detail. The Sevenfold Payback | Evangel Tabernacle

in a nutshell, that teaching just sounds bazaaarrrrrrr

 

[Always in His Presence]

I've heard it before.

The issue is when a group takes a verse and then from a preconceived assumption actually builds a whole series of teachings.

Sort of like John MacArthur - dead on accurate in some area's and then completely false in others.

 

[Yahu]

My wife and I went to a Charismatic church last night for their prayer meeting. My wife shared what happened at her work that day- one of her coworkers had been mugged in the parking lot at work at gunpoint, and the theif stole her car. The pastor introduced us to the concept of the Sevenfold payback. Apparently, since Satan was behind the mugging, Satan owed her (My wife's coworker) 7 times what he stole from her. And the pastor began praying, demanding that Satan make recompense sevenfold. He based this upon Proverbs 6:31 ("but if [the theif] is found, he shall restore seven times. He shall give all the wealth of his house." [World English Bible])

I had never heard this before, although I grew up in a Charismatic non-denominational church that seemed very simillar to this one (minus the Hebraic roots I grew up with [keeping the Old Covenant Festivals, for example], but including the speaking in tongues, an emphasis on spiritual warfare and resisting Satan, etc). Is this concept a new one? Have you ever heard of it before? What do you think about it?

Here is a link that seems to describe the idea pretty much in detail. The Sevenfold Payback | Evangel Tabernacle

No it is not new.

Now I have had a financial curse placed on me by witchcraft. I lost nearly everything in a freak fire. That fire was on my belonging while being transported from one military assignment to the next. Only my belongings were destroyed in a freak fire on the truck transporting my household goods. The crate of my belonging were directly over the fuel tanks of the truck when it caught on fire. I did later break off that curse and the coven lost a major source of revenue. They lost about $50k within a few days. The criminal investigation against them froze their other assets and I was even offered a law suite to claim those assets for myself. Now in my case the financial loss was due to direct spiritual forces sent against me to steal from me. It was partly covered by insurance and I was offered additional compensation.

I did not demand that Satan repay me but I did send back any witchcraft sent against me back on the senders 7x. I later found out that they had placed a financial curse on me then lost their own assets. The high priestess was furious with me for it. She admitted the financial curse she had sent and the consequences to them when I broke it and sent it back 7x.

 

[ByronArn]

I too thought it was bizare. My thinking was along the same lines of, this refers to humans, not spiritual beings.

 

[ByronArn]

Other than this rather bizarre teaching, my wife and I seemed to both enjoy the service, and the intimate small church atmosphere. More than just saying they were a family (like most churches I have been to), they really acted like one. So I guess my question is, do you think this is a place my wife and I should not go back to?

 

[Yahu]

Other than this rather bizarre teaching, my wife and I seemed to both enjoy the service, and the intimate small church atmosphere. More than just saying they were a family (like most churches I have been to), they really acted like one. So I guess my question is, do you think this is a place my wife and I should not go back to?

Don't expect any teacher to be correct 100% of the time. Understand we all have differing levels of understanding. You are called to be an overcomer of the error in any congregation you attend. Take the truth and discard the error. As to whether to stay is a matter of the ratio of how much you are being fed with truth. If you are starving, moved on. If they only teach milk and you need strong meat, move on. Otherwise stay.

You don't let one miner disagreement cause a separation. Agree to disagree on any point. If they demand you MUST follow the pastors understanding, well that would be grounds to leave IMO.

 

[Tigger45]

9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you

We should'nt be going to satan and demand he restore anything for us. Searching through my concourdance every scripture I saw said God would be the one doing the restoring.
"

 

[Faulty]

Not only is it odd, but it’s also presumptuous to assume a devil is behind the mugging. That may or may not be the case. Fallen man doesn’t actually need help to sin. He does just fine all on his own.

 

[~RENEE~]

heard it for years nothing new.

and uhhhhh Proverbs IS NOT a part of the old covenant

 

[whatfor]

2peter 2
10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh[c] and despise authority.Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings;
11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord.
12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

 

[Tobias]

heard it for years nothing new.

and uhhhhh Proverbs IS NOT a part of the old covenant

You're right! I just assumed that the passage in Proverbs was citing the Law of Moses. But the closest I could find was this:

Exodus 22:1 “If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep.

Does anyone know why it says seven times in Proverbs? Was that a law passed by David or Solomon later on?

 

[ByronArn]

You're right! I just assumed that the passage in Proverbs was citing the Law of Moses. But the closest I could find was this:

Exodus 22:1 “If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep.

Does anyone know why it says seven times in Proverbs? Was that a law passed by David or Solomon later on?

Some have speculated that it was a law that Solomon passed. Others speculate that Solomon was citing a law from one of the neighboring countries.

Personally, I think since Proverbs is poetry, I think Solomon used "sevenfold" metaphorically. Seven in the Bible, seven means completeness. I think its saying the thief will make full restitution, not just what he stole but also make up for whatever losses may have occurred due to the theft.

For example, if someone steals a truck, not only am I out the truck, but also out the profit I would have made from making runs transporting cargo. So every day I do not have a truck, I am losing money. So the thief would have to replace the truck, and then pay me the equivalent of what I would have made for each day that I didn't have my truck. Depending how long it takes to get my truck back, that could be a lot more than sevenfold the value of the truck!

 

[JimB]

My wife and I went to a Charismatic church last night for their prayer meeting. My wife shared what happened at her work that day- one of her coworkers had been mugged in the parking lot at work at gunpoint, and the theif stole her car. The pastor introduced us to the concept of the Sevenfold payback. Apparently, since Satan was behind the mugging, Satan owed her (My wife's coworker) 7 times what he stole from her. And the pastor began praying, demanding that Satan make recompense sevenfold. He based this upon Proverbs 6:31 ("but if [the theif] is found, he shall restore seven times. He shall give all the wealth of his house." [World English Bible])

I had never heard this before, although I grew up in a Charismatic non-denominational church that seemed very simillar to this one (minus the Hebraic roots I grew up with [keeping the Old Covenant Festivals, for example], but including the speaking in tongues, an emphasis on spiritual warfare and resisting Satan, etc). Is this concept a new one? Have you ever heard of it before? What do you think about it?

Here is a link that seems to describe the idea pretty much in detail. The Sevenfold Payback | Evangel Tabernacle

Well, since you asked: I wouldn’t go to the bank on that just yet. I call these kind of antics Charismatic clichés, Pentecostal platitudes, which are usually, as in this case, misinterpreted and misapplied scripture phrases used to add drama to a prayer service. These words, spoken with the right amount of posturing, sound authoritative but are nothing more than empty phrases that work on the idea that God is sitting in heaven, arms folded, unwilling to help us in our direst need until we perform like pet dogs and quote enough of the right scriptures to work up enough faith to get him to work for us. This kind of god I no longer serve because it’s a god who can help but won’t or would help but can’t, at least not until I hold my mouth correctly or use the right formula I got from a book.

The God I now serve knows every problem I face and, as he said, is guiding me (and you) with his eye upon us. Of course I pray, and I always end my prayer as Jesus taught me in word and example, “Not my will but yours be done.” And I rest in that. That’s called 'trust' and the prayers I pray are more for my own reassurance than an act that motivates him to work on my behalf. He is already at work for me. God’s perfect will among his imperfect children will be done whether we pray or not, but we pray “that our joy may be full.” Prayer reassures me that God is on my side. All I am required to do is trust (i.e., has faith in) him.

So, pray always, of course, but in your time of need, trust that God knows and is working in and for you both to will and do his good pleasure.

Anyhow, you asked.

 

[Yahu]

You're right! I just assumed that the passage in Proverbs was citing the Law of Moses. But the closest I could find was this:

Exodus 22:1 “If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep.

Does anyone know why it says seven times in Proverbs? Was that a law passed by David or Solomon later on?

Actually Nathan tells a story of a rich man stealing his neighbors prize lamb. David required a 7x repayment then found out the story was about him and Bathsheba. He paid with 7 sons.

Now that 7 fold repayment is also from farther back in scripture. It isn't pertaining to theft but a 7 fold return on evil you send against others.

Le 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
Le 26:21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
Le 26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
Le 26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

A seven fold repayment is a law of Yah. This isn't part of the Old Covenant but part of the nature of Yah. We know that He still chastises his children for their error. When you sow, you reap a greater harvest. That harvest is a 7 fold harvest.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Other than this rather bizarre teaching, my wife and I seemed to both enjoy the service, and the intimate small church atmosphere. More than just saying they were a family (like most churches I have been to), they really acted like one. So I guess my question is, do you think this is a place my wife and I should not go back to?

Well you are in Ohio and the link is for a church in the Phiilipeans. That is a heck of a commute.

 

[Tobias]

Well, since you asked: I wouldn’t go to the bank on that just yet. I call these kind of antics Charismatic clichés, Pentecostal platitudes, which are usually, as in this case, misinterpreted and misapplied scripture phrases used to add drama to a prayer service. These words, spoken with the right amount of posturing, sound authoritative but are nothing more than empty phrases that work on the idea that God is sitting in heaven, arms folded, unwilling to help us in our direst need until we perform like pet dogs and quote enough of the right scriptures to work up enough faith to get him to work for us. This kind of god I no longer serve because it’s a god who can help but won’t or would help but can’t, at least not until I hold my mouth correctly or use the right formula I got from a book.

The God I now serve knows every problem I face and, as he said, is guiding me (and you) with his eye upon us. Of course I pray, and I always end my prayer as Jesus taught me in word and example, “Not my will but yours be done.” And I rest in that. That’s called 'trust' and the prayers I pray are more for my own reassurance than an act that motivates him to work on my behalf. He is already at work for me. God’s perfect will among his imperfect children will be done whether we pray or not, but we pray “that our joy may be full.” Prayer reassures me that God is on my side. All I am required to do is trust (i.e., has faith in) him.

So, pray always, of course, but in your time of need, trust that God knows and is working in and for you both to will and do his good pleasure.

Anyhow, you asked.

VERY well said!!

 

[ByronArn]

Well you are in Ohio and the link is for a church in the Phiilipeans. That is a heck of a commute.

Lol! No I didn't go to THAT church. The link was the only place on the web I could find that expresses the idea Pastor Sam used. No, the church we visited was in the same city we live in...

 

[ByronArn]

Don't expect any teacher to be correct 100% of the time. Understand we all have differing levels of understanding. You are called to be an overcomer of the error in any congregation you attend. Take the truth and discard the error. As to whether to stay is a matter of the ratio of how much you are being fed with truth. If you are starving, moved on. If they only teach milk and you need strong meat, move on. Otherwise stay.

You don't let one miner disagreement cause a separation. Agree to disagree on any point. If they demand you MUST follow the pastors understanding, well that would be grounds to leave IMO.

This is exactly what i was thinking, but wanted some confirmation. Thank you.

My wife and I are going back tomorrow. I an hoping this place could be our new church home, but I'm leaving it in God ' s hands to guide us.