The Book of Enoch?

[Devin P]

Why isn't the book of Enoch in the canon? It's referenced in the bible numerous times.

Example #1
Jude 1:14-15 - "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
"To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

The book of Hanock (Enoch) 1:9 -
''And see! He comes with ten thousands of His qodeshim (dedicated ones, or "angels") to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the wicked, and to convict all flesh of
all the works of their wickedness which they have committed wickedly, and of all the harsh matters which wicked sinners have spoken against Him.

Example #2
Matthew 5:5 -
Blessed are the meek; for they shall inherit the earth.

Referencing Hanock (Enoch) 5:7 -
But for the elect there shall be light and joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth.
8 ''And then there shall be given wisdom to the elect, and they shall all live and never again sin, either through wickedness or through pride, but they who are wise shall be humble.
9 ''And they shall not transgress again, nor shall they sin all the days of their hai (life), nor shall they die of anger or wrath, but they shall complete the number of the days of their hai (life). And their lives shall be increased in peace, and the years of their joy shall be multiplied, in eternal gladness and p6eace, all the days of their life.''

I shared the extra two verses, because this is a book that is proven to have been around some 2000 years before Yeshua (Jesus), and yet, he prophetically speaks on things only the prophets, and our Savior Himself knew of.

Example #3
John 12:35-36 -
35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. 36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.

Hanok (Enoch) 108:11 -

''And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their trustworthiness deserved.

Here is the kicker...

Example #4 (Final Example)
John 5:22 -
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,

You ready for this?

Hanok (Enoch) 69:27-29 - For a tip, you can skip all of the text below, just be sure to read the red before you read the verse.

Some context, "Bĕn" means "Son", and Adam, quite literally is the Hebrew word and name, for Man. So, Bĕn of Adam, quite literally means "Son of Man". These passages from the book of enoch are taken from the Halleluyah Scriptures versions, which place special emphasis on giving literal word for word translations, and in places where pagan words have crept in, they choose to replace them with the originally intended hebrew/aramaic/greek words. In some cases, they even choose to introduce the original words because the words themselves have no equivalent in english that does the word complete justice. The context and content of the verses are exactly the same however, it's just a bit closer to the original. No verses are altered or doctored, or removed, only kept as closely to the original writings as possible. Also "יהוה" is the tetragrammaton, and is the name our Father told us to refer to him with for all of time. I'm not saying that these are terms you HAVE to use, I'm just giving context so everyone can understand the text below. Also, "Baruch" means "bless, or blessed" Much love, and enjoy!

24 And all these believe and give thanks before יהוה of hosts, and esteem (Him) with all their power, and their food is in every act of thanksgiving: they thank and esteem and exalt the Name of יהוה of hosts forever and ever.]

25 And this oath is mighty over them and through it [they are preserved and] their paths are preserved, and their course is not destroyed.

26 And there was great joy amongst them, and they baruch and esteemed and exalted because the Name of the Bĕn of Adam had been revealed unto them.

And He sat on the throne of his esteem, and the sum of judgment was given unto the Bĕn of Adam, and He caused the sinners to pass away and be destroyed from off the face of the earth, and those who have led the world astray.

28 With chains shall they be bound, and in their assemblage-place of destruction shall they be imprisoned, and all their works vanish from the face of the earth.

29 And from hereon there shall be none corruptible; for the Bĕn of Adam has appeared, and has seated Himself on the throne of His esteem, and all evil shall pass away before His face, and the Word of the Bĕn of Adam shall go forth and be strong before יהוה of hosts. This is the Third Parable of Hanok.
----------------------------------------------------

They also replace the names in scripture with their literal Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek names, depending on who it is. Which is why Enoch is Hanok. Nonetheless. The book is definitely inspired. The book was proven to have been dated looooooong before the Son of Man, and is referenced throughout the NT and the OT. The Book of Jasher is also referenced often, but I'm not familiar with it. Nor am I familiar with the book of Hanok, I'm just posting this to get the views and opinions of others. What I have read of it, it seems to stay perfectly in line with scripture. That, and all of the ancient civilizations that had these beings come down and teach them technology that made them capable to create structures that baffle us today... The book of Hanok tells us about all of that. They weren't aliens, they were Nephilim. It even explains why some of those civilizations just... up and disappeared. It explains a lot, and answers those questions as to why the flood took place, and what exactly those giants were in Genesis 6.

There's a lot more, but I'd have to read more to be able to talk about it. It's a cool book, and it's referenced way too often to be ignored. Jude was alive thousands of years after Enoch, so it's not possible that that reference was talking about anything other than Enoch's book.

 

[geiroffenberg]

it is in some old testament canons even today. But not in the caholic, protestant or masoretic jewish text.

This is probably good, becaue as you know the bible referes to this book as a valid enough book to read. Just like it does a number of other books. But its still not regarded as a canonical book, not in the historical account of the church (this was not decided by a church council, it was reality before any council) so it may have some faults in it, some weird things that makes it not pure enough to be canonical, but its still valid reading for spirituality, but not neccecary. PPl do get into all kinds of weird things about the nephilim etc from reading this book, just let the bible be the guiding book if it should contradict the book of enoch or any other book.

 

[timewerx]

I read the entire Book of Enoch a few times.

I can say the book exposes huge flaws in our religion today.... The book of Enoch affirms the authority of the Gospel of Christ over anything else written in the Bible.

It has the same theology as the Gospel of Christ in the same period as the Old Testament (Torah scriptures)!!! For example, there is no animal sacrifice in the Book of Enoch because animal life is highly respected! Those who shed the blood of animals for whatever reason were regarded as evil!

It's simply saying the Torah has absolutely no business being in the Bible because it's Orthodox Judaism (formerly Pharisee) contrasting the teachings of Christ in the Gospel while the Book of Enoch covered the same period as Genesis while still in agreement with Christ's gospels....

The Book of Enoch somehow exposes strong Pharisee influence in the Bible through the Old Testament..... Of course, Christ warned us against the deception of the Pharisees and here we are.... I guess that's why it didn't make it to canon.

....In the last days, God will send a strong delusion..... Of course, if it is strong, many, if not, most, will be deceived....

 

[Goatee]

I would like to read that book.

 

[Norbert L]

... and it's referenced way too often to be ignored. Jude was alive thousands of years after Enoch, so it's not possible that that reference was talking about anything other than Enoch's book.

I think one reason why it isn't considered canon by the majority of Christianity is because it was ignored, they weren't making enough copies. The copies of copies of the original autographs are not as extensive compared to the rest of the Bible. Which makes it harder to figure out what the original text said.

Basically we find the Bible referring to Enoch in numerous occasions but we don't have their library. Without that how much of it "seems to stay perfectly in line with scripture" is going to be a large undertaking. You're going to have to go through that entire text, see where it agrees and or deviates from the Bible. On top of that, where it agrees, you're going to determine whether it can be shown that it was written before Moses. That leads us back to the copies of copies which we don't have in our library. Now finding a complete scroll of that book among the Dead Sea Scrolls would have made its' authenticity far more credible, otherwise we don't know how much editing and tampering went on with its' text.

 

[Sanoy]

I think the main reason people reject is that they can't handle the content. I think that is due to church teachings, for example that angels are spirits only having no corporeal form.

The book of Enoch was written, as it declares in chapter 1, specifically for a future generation. It says that these things will happen again. And...it is happening again. Compare the last century to any other time in man's history. One hundred years ago many of us were still using horses for transportation, then ~50 years later we landed on the moon, then another ~50 and we are making plans to colonize mars. Think about that... 100 years from horses to Mars. It took about two thousand years just to go from the bronze age to the iron age. Many think the book of Enoch only describes the nephilim, but the lasting corruption was the teaching of the watchers. A teaching that has returned.

 

[Goatee]

Best link for the full book to read online?

 

[Sanoy]

This one combines the 3 different versions. You'll want to read the "Abbreviations, Brackets" section first. The "Book of Enoch" is chapter I-XVI.

 

[Goatee]

This one combines the 3 different versions. You'll want to read the "Abbreviations, Brackets" section first. The "Book of Enoch" is chapter I-XVI.

Thank you. Lots to read!

 

[Sanoy]

Thank you. Lots to read!

When you get to the punishment of "Azazel" note it's similarity to the scapegoat of Leviticus 16. (the Hebrew word used in Leviticus that is translated as "scapegoat" is actually the word Azazel which you can see in the ESV. The grammar structure of Leviticus 16:8 puts Azazel as a proper person in contrast to the Lord. One goat is for the Lord, one goat is for Azazel. As it says in the book of Enoch "To him [Azazel] ascribe all sin", which is what is done to the goat for Azazel in Leviticus)

 

[Noxot]

it's the Lords will that the bible is how it is. we may not know the reasons but we can trust the Lord.

enoch was a useful book to me.

 

[SummaScriptura]

The Book of Enoch dropped out for the duration of the "church age". It is destined to play a part in bringing about the regeneration of Israel in the last days.

 

[DeaconDean]

We can say truthfully that the book of Enoch is not as old as you think.

In fact, it can be only traced back as far as 300-200 BCE.

That would some 3500 Hebrew years beyond when Enoch was taken up.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Devin P]

We can say truthfully that the book of Enoch is not as old as you think.

In fact, it can be only traced back as far as 300-200 BCE.

That would some 3500 Hebrew years beyond when Enoch was taken up.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I believe it's older than that. The oldest known version is believed to be that old yes, but Jude mentions Enoch as the 7th born from Adam, and says that he prophesied, and then continues to quote directly from his book word for word for almost an entire paragraph.

Plus, if it's not written by Enoch it isn't true. But, it lines up with scripture flawlessly. Not to mention, even if it was only 300 years before Jesus, it still foretold of Him and even called Him the "Son of Man". It even (300 years prior to Jesus) used phrases no one had used all throughout scripture except for Jesus, that Enoch ended up using.

I'm not dogmatically saying it's true 100% and I can't be wrong, but no prophet before had ever called Him the Son of Man, and even foretold of what He would do for the gentiles. So, if it was only 300 years old (it'd be fake) but that'd be almost impossible because of how accurate and spot on it all is. It's a book that's meant for us now, in the end of times, so I believe the enemy has tried to keep it under wraps and written off by the majority as well.

 

[DeaconDean]

I believe it's older than that. The oldest known version is believed to be that old yes, but Jude mentions Enoch as the 7th born from Adam, and says that he prophesied, and then continues to quote directly from his book word for word for almost an entire paragraph.

Plus, if it's not written by Enoch it isn't true. But, it lines up with scripture flawlessly. Not to mention, even if it was only 300 years before Jesus, it still foretold of Him and even called Him the "Son of Man". It even (300 years prior to Jesus) used phrases no one had used all throughout scripture except for Jesus, that Enoch ended up using.

I'm not dogmatically saying it's true 100% and I can't be wrong, but no prophet before had ever called Him the Son of Man, and even foretold of what He would do for the gentiles. So, if it was only 300 years old (it'd be fake) but that'd be almost impossible because of how accurate and spot on it all is. It's a book that's meant for us now, in the end of times, so I believe the enemy has tried to keep it under wraps and written off by the majority as well.

Ay what you will, but no matter what, the "oldest" copy is the one found with the Dead Sea scrolls, and it is only dated to 300-200 BCE. That is a fact. Which also shows that 432 years before Christ was even born, the Old Testament was silent.

Do you actually believe there were men 450 feet tall as taught by Enoch? (cf Enoch 7:12)

Do you believe a demon named Penemue taught men to sin by teaching them to read and write? (Enoch 69:8-12)

And just a few verses before that, Enoch says a demon named Gadreel led Eve astray and introduced weaponry to mankind. (cf Enoch 69: 4-6)

And here I was under such foolish notions as to think it was satan who led Eve astray.

You are free to believe as you wish.

But above all, it is not in the canon. Period. The canon is closed.

I have read Enoch, but I take it with a pinch of salt.

You know, if your argument lies in the fact that Jude quotes for it, then what about all the putside sources Paul quotes from?

1Cor 15:33
Evil communications corrupt good manners.
Quoted from Thais, a work done by “Menander“, a writer from the 3rd Century BC, who in turn is supposed to have quoted from another Scholar named “Euripides”.

Titus 1:12
The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
In writing to Titus Paul quotes a description of the Cretans taken from “Epimenides“. Paul calls Epimenides “one of themselves, a prophet of their own”.

Acts 17:24-29
In Acts 17:18 Paul is encountered by Epicureans and Stoics. Paul’s first sentence struck directly at the “Epicurean” theory (the origin of the world by mere coincidence and of atoms) and arrayed himself with the “Stoics” in their doctrine of the (Divine Wisdom and Providence creating and ruling all things). His speech is made up of words quoted from a Roman Stoic Philosopher called Lucius Annaeus Seneca as mentioned below.

Acts 17:24
Paul went on to say, “God dwelleth not in temples made with hands.”
Seneca, the most prominent contemporary representative of Stoicism, had put their doctrine into these words, “The whole world is the temple of the immortal gods,” and “Temples are not to be built to God of stones piled on high. He must be consecrated in the heart of every man.”

Acts 17:25
Paul said, “Neither is God served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.”
Seneca put the same truth in this form: “God wants not ministers. How so? He himself ministereth to the human race.”

Acts 17:26-28a
Paul said, “God made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth.”
Seneca agrees, “We are members of a vast body. Nature made us kin, when she produced us from the same things and to the same ends.”

Paul said, “God is not far from each one of us; for in him we live, and move, and have our being.”
Seneca wrote, “God is at hand everywhere and to all men.” and again, “God is near thee ; he is with thee ; he is within.”

Acts 17:28b
Paul says, For we are also his offspring.
In Paul’s speech at Athens, he quotes from “certain of your own poets”. The poet he is talking about is Aratus, and this is a line found in the Phaenomena of Aratus

Acts 17:29
Then Paul proceeded, “Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think the godhead is like unto gold or silver or stone, graven by art or device of men.”
Seneca parallels the thought again: “Thou shalt not form him of silver and gold: a true likeness of God cannot be molded of this material.

Gal 5:23b
Paul says, Against such there is no law.
Roman 2:14b
Paul says, Are a law unto themselves.
Paul’s words are eerily familiar to Aristotle‘s saying of men eminent for wisdom and virtue, “Against such there is no law, for they themselves are a law,”

Source

Or that Clement of Rome uses the Greek mythology story of the Phoenix as an example of the resurrection.

"CHAPTER 25 -- THE PHOENIX AN EMBLEM OF OUR RESURRECTION.
Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode."

Source

Should we include or give credence to these other outside sources?

Like I said, the authorship cannot be established. Dating shows it to be 300-200 BCE writing.

Sorry.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[BBAS 64]

Ay what you will, but no matter what, the "oldest" copy is the one found with the Dead Sea scrolls, and it is only dated to 300-200 BCE. That is a fact. Which also shows that 432 years before Christ was even born, the Old Testament was silent.

Do you actually believe there were men 450 feet tall as taught by Enoch? (cf Enoch 7:12)

Do you believe a demon named Penemue taught men to sin by teaching them to read and write? (Enoch 69:8-12)

And just a few verses before that, Enoch says a demon named Gadreel led Eve astray and introduced weaponry to mankind. (cf Enoch 69: 4-6)

And here I was under such foolish notions as to think it was satan who led Eve astray.

You are free to believe as you wish.

But above all, it is not in the canon. Period. The canon is closed.

I have read Enoch, but I take it with a pinch of salt.

You know, if your argument lies in the fact that Jude quotes for it, then what about all the putside sources Paul quotes from?

1Cor 15:33
Evil communications corrupt good manners.
Quoted from Thais, a work done by “Menander“, a writer from the 3rd Century BC, who in turn is supposed to have quoted from another Scholar named “Euripides”.

Titus 1:12
The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
In writing to Titus Paul quotes a description of the Cretans taken from “Epimenides“. Paul calls Epimenides “one of themselves, a prophet of their own”.

Acts 17:24-29
In Acts 17:18 Paul is encountered by Epicureans and Stoics. Paul’s first sentence struck directly at the “Epicurean” theory (the origin of the world by mere coincidence and of atoms) and arrayed himself with the “Stoics” in their doctrine of the (Divine Wisdom and Providence creating and ruling all things). His speech is made up of words quoted from a Roman Stoic Philosopher called Lucius Annaeus Seneca as mentioned below.

Acts 17:24
Paul went on to say, “God dwelleth not in temples made with hands.”
Seneca, the most prominent contemporary representative of Stoicism, had put their doctrine into these words, “The whole world is the temple of the immortal gods,” and “Temples are not to be built to God of stones piled on high. He must be consecrated in the heart of every man.”

Acts 17:25
Paul said, “Neither is God served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.”
Seneca put the same truth in this form: “God wants not ministers. How so? He himself ministereth to the human race.”

Acts 17:26-28a
Paul said, “God made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth.”
Seneca agrees, “We are members of a vast body. Nature made us kin, when she produced us from the same things and to the same ends.”

Paul said, “God is not far from each one of us; for in him we live, and move, and have our being.”
Seneca wrote, “God is at hand everywhere and to all men.” and again, “God is near thee ; he is with thee ; he is within.”

Acts 17:28b
Paul says, For we are also his offspring.
In Paul’s speech at Athens, he quotes from “certain of your own poets”. The poet he is talking about is Aratus, and this is a line found in the Phaenomena of Aratus

Acts 17:29
Then Paul proceeded, “Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think the godhead is like unto gold or silver or stone, graven by art or device of men.”
Seneca parallels the thought again: “Thou shalt not form him of silver and gold: a true likeness of God cannot be molded of this material.

Gal 5:23b
Paul says, Against such there is no law.
Roman 2:14b
Paul says, Are a law unto themselves.
Paul’s words are eerily familiar to Aristotle‘s saying of men eminent for wisdom and virtue, “Against such there is no law, for they themselves are a law,”

Source

Or that Clement of Rome uses the Greek mythology story of the Phoenix as an example of the resurrection.

"CHAPTER 25 -- THE PHOENIX AN EMBLEM OF OUR RESURRECTION.
Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode."

Source

Should we include or give credence to these other outside sources?

Like I said, the authorship cannot be established. Dating shows it to be 300-200 BCE writing.

Sorry.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Good Day, Dean

As always thanks for that!!

 

[Devin P]

Ay what you will, but no matter what, the "oldest" copy is the one found with the Dead Sea scrolls, and it is only dated to 300-200 BCE. That is a fact. Which also shows that 432 years before Christ was even born, the Old Testament was silent.

Do you actually believe there were men 450 feet tall as taught by Enoch? (cf Enoch 7:12)

Well, there's different texts for the book of Enoch. The Aramaic texts, seem to be the most reliable, and don't deviate from the bible at all. There are other texts that differ more, and have verses in them, that no other copies of the book of Enoch do - such as the Greek (which has the 7:12 verse you're talking about, and even the Ethiopian versions). The Aramaic version of this text however, doesn't have a chapter 7:12. It does however talk about the giants mentioned in Genesis 6, and continually mentioned all throughout the rest of the bible. Goliath being one of the giants I'm speaking of, Og of Bashan being another (who was like 17 ft tall). There were giants that were up to like 40 ft tall biblically, and they've found gigantic skeletons all throughout history, so I mean, probably not 450 ft tall, maybe. I've never come across it in history, or biblically, so until I get some context on that, I can't say. But like I said, there's different texts about it, and the most reliable seems to be the Aramaic, because the greek text has verses and chapters that for 1 - don't line up with scripture, and 2 - don't exist in any other version, whereas the Aramaic text exists in several other languages just as accurately.

Do you believe a demon named Penemue taught men to sin by teaching them to read and write? (Enoch 69:8-12)

Well, let's look at that verse in context:

Enoch 69:8-12
8 And the fourth was named Penemu'ĕl: he taught the children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom.
(So, here we have a fallen watcher (angel) teaching men about the wisdom of fallen watchers (angels), not meant to be known about by men)
9 And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from everlasting to everlasting and until this day.
(He then taught them to write, and they ended up writing this wisdom down, not meant to be known about by men)
10 For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation to their good belief with pen and ink.
(This verse is true. We weren't meant to have to write about the goodness of God. We weren't meant to have to write God's truth love, and mercy down so other generations would learn about it. We were meant to live with God, and for God for all of eternity. Learning about Him through the bible was never intended. He wanted us to know, all of us, to know and glorify Him without having the need of a book to teach us. We're supposed to have our parents and elders teach us, and just the world in general - all of creation as God says)

11 For men were created exactly like the messengers, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous. And death, which destroys all matters, could not have taken hold of them, but through this, their knowledge, they are perishing, and through this power it is consuming me.
(This backs up what I said earlier about the verse above)
12 And the fifth was named Kasdeya: this is he who showed the children of men all the wicked smiting of spirits and demons, and the smiting of the embryo in the womb, that it may pass away, and the bites of the serpent, and the smiting which befalls through the noontide heat, the son of the serpent named Taba'ĕt.

(So, just in verse 12, some of this knowledge that the fallen gave to us, that we ended up writing down and teaching to all later generations, was abortion.)

And just a few verses before that, Enoch says a demon named Gadreel led Eve astray and introduced weaponry to mankind. (cf Enoch 69: 4-6)

And here I was under such foolish notions as to think it was satan who led Eve astray.

It does say Gadre'el, but in the hebrew text, what the OT is written in. It only ever talks of satan while putting the word "the" in front of it (aside from once), obviously the hebraic equivalent of the word the - "Ha" - e.g. HaShatan. It's not referring to "satan" being one being. It always refers to satan being many. The satan.

When we look at what satan means in hebrew, it means enemy, or adversary. So it's literally saying, the enemy or the adversary when it refers to satan in the bible. The enemy, or the adversary isn't indicative of one individual, it's indicative of many. As the book of Enoch talks about, the many fallen, each responsible for different things that are unrighteous. Azazel however, was responsible for much more, as Enoch 8 shows, and during the scapegoat sacrifice, Azazel is the name of the goat with which all sin is to be ascribed in the books of Moses.

You are free to believe as you wish.

But above all, it is not in the canon. Period. The canon is closed.

I have read Enoch, but I take it with a pinch of salt.

You know, if your argument lies in the fact that Jude quotes for it, then what about all the putside sources Paul quotes from?

Well, I mean it's not really that Jude quotes from it, it's mainly that Jude (someone who is a saint in Yeshua HaMashiac (Jesus the Christ) wouldn't lie when writing to brothers and sisters to edify them. Nor would Jude include something fraudulent, under the guise of truth, yet Jude literally (before quoting from Enoch) calls Enoch the 7th born from Adam, which he was. Then Jude writes that he prophesied, and continued to write down what Jude claims he - the seventh born from Adam, Enoch - prophesied as if it were absolute irrefutable truth. Why, if Jude knew Enoch was a false book, not written by the actual Enoch, would Jude claim Enoch as a real person, claim that he prophesied, and then continue to write down the prophesy from the book, unless it was actually believed by Jude to be a truthful source?

That, and who was the writer of Enoch, that said they were Enoch, yet still prophesied over 300 years before the birth of the Messiah, and predicted His birth, His title, and what it would mean for sin, and our redemption, considering it was something no one knew about - aside from prophets - up until He came?

The oldest found version, was 300 years before Jesus, but that doesn't mean that there aren't older versions, nor does that mean it wasn't written long before this time. There's several books referenced in the OT that were considered scripture all throughout scripture that have never been found, but that doesn't mean they don't exist does it? The book of the Wars of יהוה (the Lord) has never been found, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Like I said, the authorship cannot be established. Dating shows it to be 300-200 BCE writing.

Just the fact that Enoch referred to Jesus as the Son of Man, and that He would take away all sin on our behalf, and that He would redeem the gentiles is enough to establish authorship. The fact that a saint, passed him off as a real person, and as real writings establishes authorship. It's a book that gives huge insight into how Hashatan works (how the enemy works), and because of that, obviously they aren't going to want the book in our hands. Especially because it was written (as Enoch mentions) specifically for us, those in the last days.
We might not agree, and that's fine, but I figured I'd try to show some my reasoning behind why I consider it scripture.

That and 2 Peter 2:4 references it. This was something only written about in the book of Enoch - as nowhere else in scripture does anything talk about them being chained and held in bondage and prison until judgement, aside from in another quote in Jude. Something Jesus references a couple times, but the book of Enoch couldn't of been referencing Jesus, because again, 300 years prior. Idk, there's so much more reasons as well, but whether or not I include them depends on how you respond to this huge message that I've already sent out haha. It's cool if we disagree, all that I ask is that you pray on it, and that you aren't afraid to at least peer out into things not mentioned in the cannon. The cannon was compiled by men, and can be faulty, it's not perfect, especially considering it once had 88 books, and now has 66. Which in and of itself is a sketch number.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Say what you will, but no matter what, the "oldest" copy is the one found with the Dead Sea scrolls, and it is only dated to 300-200 BCE. That is a fact. Which also shows that 432 years before Christ was even born, the Old Testament was silent.

Do you really believe a book can only be as old as the oldest copy of it that exists? That would mean Isaiah and Moses are myths. That would mean the New Testament was written in the 3rd & 4th centuries AD and is therefore not Apostalic. Really?

Do you actually believe there were men 450 feet tall as taught by Enoch? (cf Enoch 7:12)

Actually, there is a problem with the Ethiopic text in that verse. Scholars have corrected Enoch 7:2 to a better text. The verse says nothing about the stature of the giants, instead it reads, “And they conceived from them and bore to them great giants. And the giants begot Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud- and they were growing in accordance with their greatness."

 

[Devin P]

Do you really believe a book can only be as old as the oldest copy of it that exists? That would mean Isaiah and Moses are myths. That would mean the New Testament was written in the 3rd & 4th centuries AD and is therefore not Apostalic. Really?Actually, there is a problem with the Ethiopic text in that verse. Scholars have corrected Enoch 7:2 to a better text. The verse says nothing about the stature of the giants, instead it reads, “And they conceived from them and bore to them great giants. And the giants begot Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud- and they were growing in accordance with their greatness."

Amen, Amen. It's arguably one of the most important faith building books considering the things it talks about and what has happened in history to align perfectly with what he said.

 

[DeaconDean]

Well, there's different texts for the book of Enoch. The Aramaic texts, seem to be the most reliable, and don't deviate from the bible at all. There are other texts that differ more, and have verses in them, that no other copies of the book of Enoch do - such as the Greek (which has the 7:12 verse you're talking about, and even the Ethiopian versions). The Aramaic version of this text however, doesn't have a chapter 7:12. It does however talk about the giants mentioned in Genesis 6, and continually mentioned all throughout the rest of the bible. Goliath being one of the giants I'm speaking of, Og of Bashan being another (who was like 17 ft tall). There were giants that were up to like 40 ft tall biblically, and they've found gigantic skeletons all throughout history, so I mean, probably not 450 ft tall, maybe. I've never come across it in history, or biblically, so until I get some context on that, I can't say. But like I said, there's different texts about it, and the most reliable seems to be the Aramaic, because the greek text has verses and chapters that for 1 - don't line up with scripture, and 2 - don't exist in any other version, whereas the Aramaic text exists in several other languages just as accurately.

Well, let's look at that verse in context:

Enoch 69:8-12
8 And the fourth was named Penemu'ĕl: he taught the children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom.
(So, here we have a fallen watcher (angel) teaching men about the wisdom of fallen watchers (angels), not meant to be known about by men)
9 And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from everlasting to everlasting and until this day.
(He then taught them to write, and they ended up writing this wisdom down, not meant to be known about by men)
10 For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation to their good belief with pen and ink.
(This verse is true. We weren't meant to have to write about the goodness of God. We weren't meant to have to write God's truth love, and mercy down so other generations would learn about it. We were meant to live with God, and for God for all of eternity. Learning about Him through the bible was never intended. He wanted us to know, all of us, to know and glorify Him without having the need of a book to teach us. We're supposed to have our parents and elders teach us, and just the world in general - all of creation as God says)

11 For men were created exactly like the messengers, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous. And death, which destroys all matters, could not have taken hold of them, but through this, their knowledge, they are perishing, and through this power it is consuming me.
(This backs up what I said earlier about the verse above)
12 And the fifth was named Kasdeya: this is he who showed the children of men all the wicked smiting of spirits and demons, and the smiting of the embryo in the womb, that it may pass away, and the bites of the serpent, and the smiting which befalls through the noontide heat, the son of the serpent named Taba'ĕt.

(So, just in verse 12, some of this knowledge that the fallen gave to us, that we ended up writing down and teaching to all later generations, was abortion.)


It does say Gadre'el, but in the hebrew text, what the OT is written in. It only ever talks of satan while putting the word "the" in front of it (aside from once), obviously the hebraic equivalent of the word the - "Ha" - e.g. HaShatan. It's not referring to "satan" being one being. It always refers to satan being many. The satan.

When we look at what satan means in hebrew, it means enemy, or adversary. So it's literally saying, the enemy or the adversary when it refers to satan in the bible. The enemy, or the adversary isn't indicative of one individual, it's indicative of many. As the book of Enoch talks about, the many fallen, each responsible for different things that are unrighteous. Azazel however, was responsible for much more, as Enoch 8 shows, and during the scapegoat sacrifice, Azazel is the name of the goat with which all sin is to be ascribed in the books of Moses.


Well, I mean it's not really that Jude quotes from it, it's mainly that Jude (someone who is a saint in Yeshua HaMashiac (Jesus the Christ) wouldn't lie when writing to brothers and sisters to edify them. Nor would Jude include something fraudulent, under the guise of truth, yet Jude literally (before quoting from Enoch) calls Enoch the 7th born from Adam, which he was. Then Jude writes that he prophesied, and continued to write down what Jude claims he - the seventh born from Adam, Enoch - prophesied as if it were absolute irrefutable truth. Why, if Jude knew Enoch was a false book, not written by the actual Enoch, would Jude claim Enoch as a real person, claim that he prophesied, and then continue to write down the prophesy from the book, unless it was actually believed by Jude to be a truthful source?

That, and who was the writer of Enoch, that said they were Enoch, yet still prophesied over 300 years before the birth of the Messiah, and predicted His birth, His title, and what it would mean for sin, and our redemption, considering it was something no one knew about - aside from prophets - up until He came?

The oldest found version, was 300 years before Jesus, but that doesn't mean that there aren't older versions, nor does that mean it wasn't written long before this time. There's several books referenced in the OT that were considered scripture all throughout scripture that have never been found, but that doesn't mean they don't exist does it? The book of the Wars of יהוה (the Lord) has never been found, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist.


Just the fact that Enoch referred to Jesus as the Son of Man, and that He would take away all sin on our behalf, and that He would redeem the gentiles is enough to establish authorship. The fact that a saint, passed him off as a real person, and as real writings establishes authorship. It's a book that gives huge insight into how Hashatan works (how the enemy works), and because of that, obviously they aren't going to want the book in our hands. Especially because it was written (as Enoch mentions) specifically for us, those in the last days.
We might not agree, and that's fine, but I figured I'd try to show some my reasoning behind why I consider it scripture.

That and 2 Peter 2:4 references it. This was something only written about in the book of Enoch - as nowhere else in scripture does anything talk about them being chained and held in bondage and prison until judgement, aside from in another quote in Jude. Something Jesus references a couple times, but the book of Enoch couldn't of been referencing Jesus, because again, 300 years prior. Idk, there's so much more reasons as well, but whether or not I include them depends on how you respond to this huge message that I've already sent out haha. It's cool if we disagree, all that I ask is that you pray on it, and that you aren't afraid to at least peer out into things not mentioned in the cannon. The cannon was compiled by men, and can be faulty, it's not perfect, especially considering it once had 88 books, and now has 66. Which in and of itself is a sketch number.

Again, say what you will, but evidently you haven't researched the matter enough.

It is wholly extant only in the Ge'ez language, with Aramaic fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls and a few Greek and Latin fragments.

When was Israel under Greek and Latin rule?

And for your information:

"Ge'ez (/ˈɡiːɛz/;[6][7] ግዕዝ, Gəʿəz IPA: [ɡɨʕɨz:a]; also transliterated Giʻiz) is an ancient South Semitic language and is a member of the Ethiopian Semitic group. The language originated in southern regions of Eritrea and the northern region of Ethiopia in the Horn of Africa. It later became the official language of the Kingdom of Aksum and Ethiopian imperial court."

Source

Truth is, all we can say is that the part(s) quoted by Jude, and those only, can be considered "inspired".

All the evidence is against you.

Sorry

God Bless

Till all are one.