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Xeno.of.athens

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What do Catholics think of the bible?

We think thus: Through the sacred scriptures and in His goodness and wisdom God chose to reveal Himself and to make known to us the hidden purpose of His will (see Eph. 1:9) by which through Christ, the Word made flesh, man might in the Holy Spirit have access to the Father and come to share in the divine nature (see Eph. 2:18; 2 Peter 1:4).

And where does God reveal himself? In sacred scripture. Through this revelation, therefore, the invisible God (see Col. 1;15, 1 Tim. 1:17) out of the abundance of His love speaks to men as friends (see Ex. 33:11; John 15:14-15) and lives among them (see Bar. 3:38), so that He may invite and take them into fellowship with Himself.

And in history and creation too, God reveals himself. God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after their fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7). Then, at the time He had appointed He called Abraham in order to make of him a great nation (see Gen. 12:2). Through the patriarchs, and after them through Moses and the prophets, He taught this people to acknowledge Himself the one living and true God, provident father and just judge, and to wait for the Savior promised by Him, and in this manner prepared the way for the Gospel down through the centuries.

Why does God reveal himself to us? This plan of revelation is realized by deeds and words having an inner unity: the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation manifest and confirm the teaching and realities signified by the words, while the words proclaim the deeds and clarify the mystery contained in them. By this revelation then, the deepest truth about God and the salvation of man shines out for our sake in Christ, who is both the mediator and the fullness of all revelation.

Then, after speaking in many and varied ways through the prophets, "now at last in these days God has spoken to us in His Son" (Heb. 1:1-2). For He sent His Son, the eternal Word, who enlightens all men, so that He might dwell among men and tell them of the innermost being of God (see John 1:1-18). Jesus Christ, therefore, the Word made flesh, was sent as "a man to men." He "speaks the words of God" (John 3;34), and completes the work of salvation which His Father gave Him to do (see John 5:36; John 17:4). To see Jesus is to see His Father (John 14:9). For this reason Jesus perfected revelation by fulfilling it through his whole work of making Himself present and manifesting Himself: through His words and deeds, His signs and wonders, but especially through His death and glorious resurrection from the dead and final sending of the Spirit of truth. Moreover He confirmed with divine testimony what revelation proclaimed, that God is with us to free us from the darkness of sin and death, and to raise us up to life eternal.

The Christian dispensation, therefore, as the new and definitive covenant, will never pass away and we now await no further new public revelation before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ (see 1 Tim. 6:14 and Tit. 2:13).
 
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Clare73

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What do Catholics think of the bible?

We think thus: Through the sacred scriptures and in His goodness and wisdom God chose to reveal Himself and to make known to us the hidden purpose of His will (see Eph. 1:9) by which through Christ, the Word made flesh, man might in the Holy Spirit have access to the Father and come to share in the divine nature (see Eph. 2:18; 2 Peter 1:4).

And where does God reveal himself? In sacred scripture. Through this revelation, therefore, the invisible God (see Col. 1;15, 1 Tim. 1:17) out of the abundance of His love speaks to men as friends (see Ex. 33:11; John 15:14-15) and lives among them (see Bar. 3:38), so that He may invite and take them into fellowship with Himself.

And in history and creation too, God reveals himself. God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after their fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7). Then, at the time He had appointed He called Abraham in order to make of him a great nation (see Gen. 12:2). Through the patriarchs, and after them through Moses and the prophets, He taught this people to acknowledge Himself the one living and true God, provident father and just judge, and to wait for the Savior promised by Him, and in this manner prepared the way for the Gospel down through the centuries.

Why does God reveal himself to us? This plan of revelation is realized by deeds and words having an inner unity: the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation manifest and confirm the teaching and realities signified by the words, while the words proclaim the deeds and clarify the mystery contained in them. By this revelation then, the deepest truth about God and the salvation of man shines out for our sake in Christ, who is both the mediator and the fullness of all revelation.

Then, after speaking in many and varied ways through the prophets, "now at last in these days God has spoken to us in His Son" (Heb. 1:1-2). For He sent His Son, the eternal Word, who enlightens all men, so that He might dwell among men and tell them of the innermost being of God (see John 1:1-18). Jesus Christ, therefore, the Word made flesh, was sent as "a man to men." He "speaks the words of God" (John 3;34), and completes the work of salvation which His Father gave Him to do (see John 5:36; John 17:4). To see Jesus is to see His Father (John 14:9). For this reason Jesus perfected revelation by fulfilling it through his whole work of making Himself present and manifesting Himself: through His words and deeds, His signs and wonders, but especially through His death and glorious resurrection from the dead and final sending of the Spirit of truth. Moreover He confirmed with divine testimony what revelation proclaimed, that God is with us to free us from the darkness of sin and death, and to raise us up to life eternal.

The Christian dispensation, therefore, as the new and definitive covenant, will never pass away and we now await no further new public revelation before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ (see 1 Tim. 6:14 and Tit. 2:13).
Others understand the Bible to be what it claims to be--the God-breathed inerrant word of God, authoritative for all faith and doctrine understood in the light of and in agreement with itself.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Others understand the Bible to be what it claims to be--the God-breathed inerrant word of God, authoritative for all faith and doctrine understood in the light of and in agreement with itself.
Others have the freedom to express their opinions in their own threads.

For myself, I am glad that the Second Vatican Council produced the document Dei Verbum for the edification and comfort of God's faithful people.
 
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Clare73

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Where does the Bible claim this? I'm not in agreement or disagreement. I just wondering where you came up with this.
From the fact that it is breathed-out by God (2 Tim 3:16) who by his very nature is the supreme authority over everything, right?
 
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trophy33

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From the fact that it is breathed-out by God (2 Tim 3:16) who by his very nature is the supreme authority over everything, right?
It says "All Scripture is "theopneustos", God-breathed...".

Let us ignore for now that the context is not even about what we commonly call "the Bible", I think the question was rather where did you get the definition what theopneustos mean. Meaning, where did you source this from:
1. inerrant
2. authoritative for all faith and doctrine
3. in agreement with itself


Also, the definitions of these terms (for example inerrant regarding what) would be helpful.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Let us ignore for now that the context is not even about what we commonly call "the Bible"
So true. At the time 2 Timothy was written, there was no New Testament as we know it.
 
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Clare73

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It says "All Scripture is "theopneustos", God-breathed...".

Let us ignore for now that the context is not even about what we commonly call "the Bible",
There is indication that some NT writings were already considered equal in authority to the OT Scriptures, as in
Peter placing Paul's writings on the same level of authority as the God-breathed writings of the OT (2 Pe 3:16).
I think the question was rather where did you get the definition what theopneustos mean. Meaning, where did you source this from:
It's the meaning of the Greek word theopnuestos in 2 Tim 3:16.
theo -- God
pnuestos -- breathed,

from God himself.

Where do you get the definition what "water-saturated" means?
1. inerrant
2. authoritative for all faith and doctrine
3. in agreement with itself


Also, the definitions of these terms (for example inerrant regarding what) would be helpful.
The definitions of these terms are found in the dictionary.
 
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trophy33

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There is indication that some NT writings were already considered equal in authority to the OT Scriptures, as in
Peter placing Paul's writings on the same level of authority as the God-breathed writings of the OT (2 Pe 3:16).
But there was no canon of Scriptures. People used various writings as Scriptures.

It's the meaning of the Greek word theopnuestos in 2 Tim 3:16.
theo -- God
pnuestos -- breathed,

from God himself.

Where do you get the definition what "water-saturated" means?

The definitions of these terms are found in the dictionary.
Well, you did not tell us much. Can you even tell us which Bible is inerrant? All Bibles everywhere through history? Or only a specific English print? Or only original autographs?
 
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B Griffin

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What do Catholics think of the bible?

We think thus: Through the sacred scriptures and in His goodness and wisdom God chose to reveal Himself and to make known to us the hidden purpose of His will (see Eph. 1:9) by which through Christ, the Word made flesh, man might in the Holy Spirit have access to the Father and come to share in the divine nature (see Eph. 2:18; 2 Peter 1:4).

And where does God reveal himself? In sacred scripture. Through this revelation, therefore, the invisible God (see Col. 1;15, 1 Tim. 1:17) out of the abundance of His love speaks to men as friends (see Ex. 33:11; John 15:14-15) and lives among them (see Bar. 3:38), so that He may invite and take them into fellowship with Himself.

And in history and creation too, God reveals himself. God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after their fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7). Then, at the time He had appointed He called Abraham in order to make of him a great nation (see Gen. 12:2). Through the patriarchs, and after them through Moses and the prophets, He taught this people to acknowledge Himself the one living and true God, provident father and just judge, and to wait for the Savior promised by Him, and in this manner prepared the way for the Gospel down through the centuries.

Why does God reveal himself to us? This plan of revelation is realized by deeds and words having an inner unity: the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation manifest and confirm the teaching and realities signified by the words, while the words proclaim the deeds and clarify the mystery contained in them. By this revelation then, the deepest truth about God and the salvation of man shines out for our sake in Christ, who is both the mediator and the fullness of all revelation.

Then, after speaking in many and varied ways through the prophets, "now at last in these days God has spoken to us in His Son" (Heb. 1:1-2). For He sent His Son, the eternal Word, who enlightens all men, so that He might dwell among men and tell them of the innermost being of God (see John 1:1-18). Jesus Christ, therefore, the Word made flesh, was sent as "a man to men." He "speaks the words of God" (John 3;34), and completes the work of salvation which His Father gave Him to do (see John 5:36; John 17:4). To see Jesus is to see His Father (John 14:9). For this reason Jesus perfected revelation by fulfilling it through his whole work of making Himself present and manifesting Himself: through His words and deeds, His signs and wonders, but especially through His death and glorious resurrection from the dead and final sending of the Spirit of truth. Moreover He confirmed with divine testimony what revelation proclaimed, that God is with us to free us from the darkness of sin and death, and to raise us up to life eternal.

The Christian dispensation, therefore, as the new and definitive covenant, will never pass away and we now await no further new public revelation before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ (see 1 Tim. 6:14 and Tit. 2:13).
I didn't realize you were quoting something. Typically, when someone does this, they need to provide a reference or run the risk of plagiarism charges.
 
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Clare73

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But there was no canon of Scriptures. People used various writings as Scriptures.
Jesus viewed the OT Scriptures as the inerrant authoritative word of God.
Well, you did not tell us much. Can you even tell us which Bible is inerrant? All Bibles everywhere through history? Or only a specific English print? Or only original autographs?
Whichever Bible understood in the context of itself does not contradict itself anywhere therein.
 
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armchairscholar

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What do Catholics think of the bible?

We think thus: Through the sacred scriptures and in His goodness and wisdom God chose to reveal Himself and to make known to us the hidden purpose of His will (see Eph. 1:9) by which through Christ, the Word made flesh, man might in the Holy Spirit have access to the Father and come to share in the divine nature (see Eph. 2:18; 2 Peter 1:4).

And where does God reveal himself? In sacred scripture. Through this revelation, therefore, the invisible God (see Col. 1;15, 1 Tim. 1:17) out of the abundance of His love speaks to men as friends (see Ex. 33:11; John 15:14-15) and lives among them (see Bar. 3:38), so that He may invite and take them into fellowship with Himself.

And in history and creation too, God reveals himself. God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after their fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7). Then, at the time He had appointed He called Abraham in order to make of him a great nation (see Gen. 12:2). Through the patriarchs, and after them through Moses and the prophets, He taught this people to acknowledge Himself the one living and true God, provident father and just judge, and to wait for the Savior promised by Him, and in this manner prepared the way for the Gospel down through the centuries.

Why does God reveal himself to us? This plan of revelation is realized by deeds and words having an inner unity: the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation manifest and confirm the teaching and realities signified by the words, while the words proclaim the deeds and clarify the mystery contained in them. By this revelation then, the deepest truth about God and the salvation of man shines out for our sake in Christ, who is both the mediator and the fullness of all revelation.

Then, after speaking in many and varied ways through the prophets, "now at last in these days God has spoken to us in His Son" (Heb. 1:1-2). For He sent His Son, the eternal Word, who enlightens all men, so that He might dwell among men and tell them of the innermost being of God (see John 1:1-18). Jesus Christ, therefore, the Word made flesh, was sent as "a man to men." He "speaks the words of God" (John 3;34), and completes the work of salvation which His Father gave Him to do (see John 5:36; John 17:4). To see Jesus is to see His Father (John 14:9). For this reason Jesus perfected revelation by fulfilling it through his whole work of making Himself present and manifesting Himself: through His words and deeds, His signs and wonders, but especially through His death and glorious resurrection from the dead and final sending of the Spirit of truth. Moreover He confirmed with divine testimony what revelation proclaimed, that God is with us to free us from the darkness of sin and death, and to raise us up to life eternal.

The Christian dispensation, therefore, as the new and definitive covenant, will never pass away and we now await no further new public revelation before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ (see 1 Tim. 6:14 and Tit. 2:13).
As we read the scriptures, we see that God reveals himself not only in the words of the prophets and apostles but also in the beauty of creation and the unfolding of history. He speaks to us as friends, and he lives among us, guiding us on our journey towards salvation.

But why does God reveal himself to us? It is because he desires to be in relationship with us, to share his love and his life with us. He wants us to know that we are not alone, that we are loved and cherished, and that we have a purpose in this world.

And so, let us cherish the scriptures and the revelation they contain. Let us read them with an open heart and mind, and let us allow the words of God to transform us, to guide us, and to inspire us to live a life of love, compassion, and service to others.
 
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trophy33

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Jesus viewed the OT Scriptures as the inerrant authoritative word of God.
I am pretty sure Jesus never said anything like "the OT Scriptures are inerrant". This seems like anachronism.

Whichever Bible understood in the context of itself does not contradict itself anywhere therein.
I am not sure what you mean. Different Bibles are all God-breathed as long as they are internally consistent? Is this what you are saying?
 
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concretecamper

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From the fact that it is breathed-out by God (2 Tim 3:16) who by his very nature is the supreme authority over everything, right?
Scripture is certainly God Breathed. But 2 Tim 3:16 doesn't say "only". You may choose to approach what is meant as "Scripture" that way.
 
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concretecamper

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So true. At the time 2 Timothy was written, there was no New Testament as we know it.
also, 2 Tim 3:16 is referencing the Tanakh. It isn't reference the Bible.

In fact, there is nothing in the Bible that tells us the NT canon is inspired text.
 
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Clare73

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I am pretty sure Jesus never said anything like "the OT Scriptures are inerrant". This seems like anachronism.
How much of the Bible have you read?

Jesus believed the OT was the "word of God" in every detail (Mt 15:6, Lk 5:1, Lk 11:28, Jn 10:35),
that it was the truth of God vested with the authority of God and backed by the power of God (Mt 5:17-19).
He treated arguments from Scripture as having clinching force. When he said, "It is written," that was final. There was no appeal against Scripture, for "the scripture cannot be broken." (Mt 4:5, Mt 4:7, Mt 4:10, Jn 10:35). God's word holds good forever.
He constantly scolded the Jews for their ignorance and neglect of Scripture: "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures?". . ."Have you not read. . .?". . ."Go and learn what this means. . ." (Mk 12:24, Mt 12:3, Mt 12:5, Mt 19:4, Mt 21:16, Mt 21:42,Mt 9:13).

Likewise, Jesus himself submitted to the OT as the word of God:
he lived a life of obedience to Scripture (Lk 4:17-21, Mt 8:16-17, Mt 11:2-5),
and then he died in obedience to Scripture (Lk 18:31, Mk 8:31, Mk 9:31, Mk 10:33-34, Mt 26:24, Lk 22:37, Mt 26:53-56),
when he arose, he explained who he was by the Scriptures (Lk 24:44-47, Lk 24:27),
he presented himself to the Jews as the fulfiller of Scripture (Jn 5:39-40, Jn 5:46-47).

Belief in the authority and truth of the OT was the foundation of Jesus' whole ministry.
I am not sure what you mean. Different Bibles are all God-breathed as long as they are internally consistent? Is this what you are saying?
The OT Scriptures are those recognized by Jesus; i.e., those translated into the Septuagint.

The NT Scriptures are those recognized by the early Christians as from the Holy Spirit.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I didn't realize you were quoting something. Typically, when someone does this, they need to provide a reference or run the risk of plagiarism charges.
My friend, it is rare to find a phrase that has not been previously articulated, often in a more eloquent manner. My source was "Dei Verbum," with phrases woven together with my own. As my declared intention is to convey the Catholic perspective, including my own, on the sacred scriptures, what better sources could I employ than those crafted by the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?
 
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trophy33

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How much of the Bible have you read?

Jesus believed the OT was the "word of God" in every detail (Mt 15:6, Lk 5:1, Lk 11:28, Jn 10:35),
that it was the truth of God vested with the authority of God and backed by the power of God (Mt 5:17-19).
He treated arguments from Scripture as having clinching force. When he said, "It is written," that was final. There was no appeal against Scripture, for "the scripture cannot be broken." (Mt 4:5, Mt 4:7, Mt 4:10, Jn 10:35). God's word holds good forever.
He constantly scolded the Jews for their ignorance and neglect of Scripture: "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures?". . ."Have you not read. . .?". . ."Go and learn what this means. . ." (Mk 12:24, Mt 12:3, Mt 12:5, Mt 19:4, Mt 21:16, Mt 21:42,Mt 9:13).

Likewise, Jesus himself submitted to the OT as the word of God:
he lived a life of obedience to Scripture (Lk 4:17-21, Mt 8:16-17, Mt 11:2-5),
and then he died in obedience to Scripture (Lk 18:31, Mk 8:31, Mk 9:31, Mk 10:33-34, Mt 26:24, Lk 22:37, Mt 26:53-56),
when he arose, he explained who he was by the Scriptures (Lk 24:44-47, Lk 24:27),
he presented himself to the Jews as the fulfiller of Scripture (Jn 5:39-40, Jn 5:46-47).

Belief in the authority and truth of the OT was the foundation of Jesus' whole ministry.

The OT Scriptures are those recognized by Jesus; i.e., those translated into the Septuagint.

The NT Scriptures are those recognized by the early Christians as from the Holy Spirit.
Well, you are not answering my questions. I will try to make it easier - can you name one specific Bible that is inerrant, in your opinion? Preferably one of those you are using so that you might be familiar with it.
 
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Clare73

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also, 2 Tim 3:16 is referencing the Tanakh. It isn't reference the Bible.

In fact, there is nothing in the Bible that tells us the NT canon is inspired text.
The NT cannon was arrived at the same way the OT canon was arrived at. . .by the people of God recognizing the Holy Spirit in the authorship of the texts.

And to read the apocrypha is to see its difference from the Protestant Canon.
 
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