The Bible: Spirit (Big "S") vs. spirit (small "s")

[victoryword]

ON another forum last month, there was a complaint about Fred Price's teaching on Romans 8. Let me show you what was said:

I caught a few comments by Mr. price last night on TV and must say that I was rather shocked. Price was advocating that the biblical text in in Rom 8 had a common translation errror running through this text. That is that, the word Spirit was mistranslated and should NOT have been capitalized.

Of course Mr. Price then went on to state, that we are to walk according to our own re-generated / perfected spirit in our war against the flesh. From where I am sitting the biblical implications of this stance are rather staggering, and sets scripture on it's head. Has anyone ever heard of such a teaching and what do you guys think of this teaching?
​

Here was my response:

I did not get a chance to listen to Price's sermon that Sly refers to but I have heard him and other faith teachers mention these things before. Though I am not always in agreement with them on their statements, I do know that they neither deny the Third person of the Trinity nor do they deny our need for him.

Concerning Ephesians 6:17, in reference to the "sword of the Spirit", Price gives this same understanding about the capitilization of the "S". Here is some of his comments:

• 
  I believe that when they translated this seventeeenth verse, they made a mistake, not in words, but in capitilization. I have enough sense to know that you do not add or take away from the Word of God, and I have no intentions of doing that. I believe that the words themselves are exactly as the Spirit of God gave them. However, depending upon the context in which they are used, the way they are punctuated, and the way they are either capitalized or not can change the entire meaning and emphasis of words.
  
  As I said before, in verse 17, the word Spirit is capitalized, so it makes it appear that it is the sword of the Holy Spirit. However, the armor is for the benefit of the Christians, and not for the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is the interpreter of the Word, but the Word is not given to Him; it is given to those of us who are in the family of God. So then, if the helmet of salvation is for the believer, then the sword has to be also.

Some other translations use it that way as well:

• 
  And, the helmet of salvation, welcome ye, and the sword of the spirit, which is what God hath spoken, (Rotherham)
  
  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. (Common)

This is not to say that I agree with Price on this point (because I don't), but it is to show that he has a right to his understanding of this passage the way that he does.

​

I am interested in what you guys think. How do you determine in, say like Galatians 5:22, 23 where it talks about the "fruit of the Spirit" that it is the Holy Spirit or the human spirit?

 

[PastorJoey]

ON another forum last month, there was a complaint about Fred Price's teaching on Romans 8. Let me show you what was said:

I caught a few comments by Mr. price last night on TV and must say that I was rather shocked. Price was advocating that the biblical text in in Rom 8 had a common translation errror running through this text. That is that, the word Spirit was mistranslated and should NOT have been capitalized.


Of course Mr. Price then went on to state, that we are to walk according to our own re-generated / perfected spirit in our war against the flesh. From where I am sitting the biblical implications of this stance are rather staggering, and sets scripture on it's head. Has anyone ever heard of such a teaching and what do you guys think of this teaching?

​

Here was my response:

I did not get a chance to listen to Price's sermon that Sly refers to but I have heard him and other faith teachers mention these things before. Though I am not always in agreement with them on their statements, I do know that they neither deny the Third person of the Trinity nor do they deny our need for him.


Concerning Ephesians 6:17, in reference to the "sword of the Spirit", Price gives this same understanding about the capitilization of the "S". Here is some of his comments:

• 
  I believe that when they translated this seventeeenth verse, they made a mistake, not in words, but in capitilization. I have enough sense to know that you do not add or take away from the Word of God, and I have no intentions of doing that. I believe that the words themselves are exactly as the Spirit of God gave them. However, depending upon the context in which they are used, the way they are punctuated, and the way they are either capitalized or not can change the entire meaning and emphasis of words.
  
  As I said before, in verse 17, the word Spirit is capitalized, so it makes it appear that it is the sword of the Holy Spirit. However, the armor is for the benefit of the Christians, and not for the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is the interpreter of the Word, but the Word is not given to Him; it is given to those of us who are in the family of God. So then, if the helmet of salvation is for the believer, then the sword has to be also.

Some other translations use it that way as well:

• 
  And, the helmet of salvation, welcome ye, and the sword of the spirit, which is what God hath spoken, (Rotherham)
  
  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. (Common)

This is not to say that I agree with Price on this point (because I don't), but it is to show that he has a right to his understanding of this passage the way that he does.


​

I am interested in what you guys think. How do you determine in, say like Galatians 5:22, 23 where it talks about the "fruit of the Spirit" that it is the Holy Spirit or the human spirit?

I believe that the fruit of the spirit in Galatians 5 is referring to our spirit and not the HS.
I'll get back to this later. Going to our church Christmas party.
Pastor J

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

Price is correct. The spirit doing the praying, interceeding, and knowing the will of God in 26-27 is our own born again spirit.
This is from my personal NT translation that I have been working on for many years.

Romans 8:
26 In the same way, the (our born again)spirit is also aiding our (soulical) infirmities because we (our soulical mind) know not what we should pray for as required: but the same (our born again) spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered in articulate language
27 But He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the (our born again) spirit, because he (our born again spirit)makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

In like manner the passage in Gal 5 is referring to the fruit of our born again spirit, and how we should walk according to its leadings rather than our flesh. It is our flesh, and our spirit.

 

[Bobber]

Hi Folks...I think if you read after EW Kenyon he suggested the same thing as well. [that the s in Spirit should have been small s = our spirit] Is it possible that we can conclude that we can accept a dual application? If our spirit is empowered by the Holy Spirit well then that's the only time our spirit will be able to function in the success the word promises us?

 

[CrazyforYeshua]

I think it's Gods' Spirit, our sinful spirit has no such fruits, we are selfish, liars and everything else that is opposite of what is listed. If we walk in our spirit, we would never have those traits, even if we are born again.

 

[PastorJoey]

I think it's Gods' Spirit, our sinful spirit has no such fruits, we are selfish, liars and everything else that is opposite of what is listed. If we walk in our spirit, we would never have those traits, even if we are born again.

If your spirit is sinful, then what were you saved from? What part of you was born again?

Fruit matures and ripens, gets sweeter. This couldnt be referring to the HS. He does not mature or ripen. He IS! We develop, not He.

This is just my understanding of it anyway. This is not a big deal.

As far as considering yourself to be sinful who has been born again, not covered by the blood of bulls or rams, but cleansed by the blood of the Lamb of God! If we are still sinful in spirit, then what did Jesus save us from?Why was the blood of Jesus any better than the blood of an animal?
Pastor J

 

[victoryword]

I think it's Gods' Spirit, our sinful spirit has no such fruits, we are selfish, liars and everything else that is opposite of what is listed. If we walk in our spirit, we would never have those traits, even if we are born again.

CFY

The following is not a rebuke but a loving admonishment. Perhaps you did not mean what you said the way it appears in the first reading of your post (it is easy to isunderstand what a person really means). However, in case you did, I feel I need to give your this correction.

You were born again and made a new creation in Christ Jesus (John 3:3-5; 2 Cor. 5:17). You have been sanctified, made Holy, and pure by the blood of the lamb. Therefore your spirit is NOT sinful. Do not call yourself a selfish liar. That is not YOU. Call yourself what God calls you.

I believe that it is the Holy Spirit who produces the fruit in us, but He does it with a BORN AGAIN person. I believe that when the Bible tells us to "walk in the Spirit" that it is in reference to the HOly Spirit. Walking in line with Him and obeying Him enables us to be empowered to produce the fruit of joy, peace, longsuffering etc. We could not have those in our human spirit apart from the Holy Spirit. However, because the Holy Spirit resides in our human spirit, we are made clean and holy. We are no longer sinful.

 

[victoryword]

I disagree with ya'll because I am always right and ya'll are always WRONG

Anyway, while I do disagree with some of your points, the truth is, I can't say that I am totally right because I am no expert on the Greek language. Quoting one guy who was also involved with the discussion, he said that noted scholar, "Gordon Fee, has observed that many times in Pauline usage the distinction between spirit and Spirit is not sharply defined. It is sort of analogous to the OT cases where a prophet will be declaring the Words of God in the third person -- "He says He will..." -- and then seamlessly transition to first person -- "and I the LORD say..."; Fee often chooses to express this by writing "s/Spirit." (You can find this discussed in Paul, the Spirit, and the People of God, and in more detail in God's Empowering Presence.)"

Nonetheless, the born-again spirit of a man usually wants to follow God. Jesus said, " the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (Matt. 26:41).

I firmly believe that is where the struggle begins. The born again human spirit wants to do right but it is contending with the dictates of its flesh. The soul makes the decision to follow one or the other.

Now, I believe that a walk of victory cannot be accomplished without the help of the Holy Spirit. That is why I believe that when Galatians 5 tells us to walk in the Spirit, it is in reference to the Holy Spirit and not the human spirit. This is where the Faith Teachers and I disagree. Yet, the Faith teachers do not deny that we need His help, it just seems that they put too much of an emphasis on our role and less on the Holy Spirit's role than I think that they should.

 

[riverpastor]

LRB,

Aren't you done with that translation yet?!?!?

I want to echo PastorJ. Our "s"pirit is subject to Holy "S"pirit.

It is by His Grace that we have fruit, the sword of the Word, etc.

He exhibits these things within us as we yield to Him...

 

[PastorJoey]

Hi Folks...I think if you read after EW Kenyon he suggested the same thing as well. [that the s in Spirit should have been small s = our spirit] Is it possible that we can conclude that we can accept a dual application? If our spirit is empowered by the Holy Spirit well then that's the only time our spirit will be able to function in the success the word promises us?

I believe that for rules of interpretation to follow through, we must determine one or the other but not both as far as context goes. Your principle I agree with though.
PJ

 

[victoryword]

I believe that for rules of interpretation to follow through, we must determine one or the other but not both as far as context goes. Your principle I agree with though.
PJ

I agree. I do believe that consistency is a key. Especially if we are talking about the same word being used in one passage. However, in reading Romans 8, it seems like some parts could apply to the Holy Spirit and other passages to the human spirit. Just a thought on that.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

I agree... and the place of the Holy Spirit in the passage is one of a witness, not an initiator or performer.

I agree. I do believe that consistency is a key. Especially if we are talking about the same word being used in one passage. However, in reading Romans 8, it seems like some parts could apply to the Holy Spirit and other passages to the human spirit. Just a thought on that.

 

[fwGod]

maybe i'm wrong but i dont think of my spirit as capable of doing wrong because its been recreated in righteousness, born incorruptible by the word of God.
my spirit produces the fruit of the spirit.. placed there by the Holy Spirit.. His own divine nature.
.. or nothing.
in which case, my soul, conformed to the world and in need of being renewed by the word of God or else it fights against what my spirit man desires to do which is to please God.

the only solution is to walk in the spirit which is by God's word and praying in the spirit.. to overcome the will of the flesh.

this is my basic understanding.. in theory. however its not to say that i manage to do this moment by moment.. but i'm willing.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

You have spoken wisely FWGOD.

maybe i'm wrong but i dont think of my spirit as capable of doing wrong because its been recreated in righteousness, born incorruptible by the word of God.
my spirit produces the fruit of the spirit.. placed there by the Holy Spirit.. His own divine nature.
.. or nothing.
in which case, my soul, conformed to the world and in need of being renewed by the word of God or else it fights against what my spirit man desires to do which is to please God.

the only solution is to walk in the spirit which is by God's word and praying in the spirit.. to overcome the will of the flesh.

this is my basic understanding.. in theory. however its not to say that i manage to do this moment by moment.. but i'm willing.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

The main question to ask is this.
What is the object of the Spirit and purpose in the act?
The whole point is not to enable the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues or to enable the Holy Spirit to walk in the Spirit. The whole point it to enable US (our spirit) to do this. I do not see where it makes much sense to have the Holy Spirit pray through us or walk through us... however, it does make sense that "He comes along side to help" (the meaning of comforter) to help us do these things.

 

[godson777]

I am in agreement with Dids and Price. I have acxtually written (or have nearly written) a book on this p[articular subject. I too believe there have been many mistranslations throughout the scriptures and believe that what we commonly refer to as the Holy Spirit is actually refering to our righteous reborn spirit.

 

[godson777]

Just by the way...

Galatians 5 cannot possibly be talking about the Holy Spirit...

This passage is contrasting the s/Spirit and the flesh.

Verse 17 says: 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

If it was talking about the Holy Spirit it would have read: "so that you do not do the things that He wishes." However, it does not say that. It says: "so that you do not do the things that YOU wish." It is refering to YOUR spirit, not the Holy Spirit.

 

[PastorJoey]

Just by the way...

Galatians 5 cannot possibly be talking about the Holy Spirit...

This passage is contrasting the s/Spirit and the flesh.

Verse 17 says: 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

If it was talking about the Holy Spirit it would have read: "so that you do not do the things that He wishes." However, it does not say that. It says: "so that you do not do the things that YOU wish." It is refering to YOUR spirit, not the Holy Spirit.

Good point Godson!

Here is a possible interpretation of Galatians 5
Galatians 5:16-25 KJV

(16) [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit (spirit realm), and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.(17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit (human spirit), and the Spirit(human spirit) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.(18) But if ye be led of the Spirit (Holy Spirit), ye are not under the law.(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(22) But the fruit of the Spirit(human spirit) is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.(24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.(25) If we live in the Spirit (spirit realm), let us also walk in the Spirit (spirit realm).

The only place I see possible meaning "Holy Spirit" is in Verse 18.

I understand Paul to speak of 3 "spirits". 1. The spiritual realm 2. the human spirit 3. The Holy Spirit.

Keeping in mind that even if everyone of these is referring to the human spirit, it is still the Holy Spirit's dealings with our spirit that make any of it possible.

Understanding these verses this way may lead some to think that you are eliminating the work of the HS in ones life, but its simply recognizing that the HS deals with or spirits in His communication with us.
PJ

 

[godson777]

I would probably interpret this passage slightly differently:

Galatians 5:16-25 KJV

(16) [This] I say then, Walk in (which means: "align your soul to") the Spirit (your reborn human spirit), and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the (ie; your) flesh.(17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit (human spirit), and the Spirit (human spirit) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.(18) But if ye be led of the Spirit (your reborn spirit), ye are not under the law.(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(22) But the fruit of the Spirit(human spirit) is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.(24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.(25) If we live in the Spirit (human spirit - this is the part of us that has been made alive with the righteousness of God), let us also walk in the Spirit (our human spirit that is alive). - our flesh is coming to death, but our spirit is now alive.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

That is it.

I would probably interpret this passage slightly differently:

Galatians 5:16-25 KJV

(16) [This] I say then, Walk in (which means: "align your soul to") the Spirit (your reborn human spirit), and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the (ie; your) flesh.(17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit (human spirit), and the Spirit (human spirit) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.(18) But if ye be led of the Spirit (your reborn spirit), ye are not under the law.(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(22) But the fruit of the Spirit(human spirit) is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.(24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.(25) If we live in the Spirit (human spirit - this is the part of us that has been made alive with the righteousness of God), let us also walk in the Spirit (our human spirit that is alive). - our flesh is coming to death, but our spirit is now alive.