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The Assemblies of God's position on Positive Confession

Dec 18, 2003
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probinson

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Hi Twiggy,

If you're interested, some time ago I wrote my thoughts concerning positive confession. Here they are;

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Most of you know that I believe in WoF *gasp*
winkcheeky.gif
So I'd like to clear up some misunderstandings about "positive" confession, one of the things us crazy WoFers believe in.

First a bit of background. I have attended the same RHEMA affiliated church for the last 30 years. I've had only 2 pastors in those 30 years, and my current pastor has been at the church for around 20 years or so. He lives just a few houses up from me, and I would consider him one of my greatest friends.

I grew up with WoF teachings, and I have never known anything different. My parents are also WoF people, and they raised me this way. At no point was I "forced" to believe this way. Even though I was raised this way, I ultimately made the choice for myself. All of that said, I am not by any means a poster child for all things WoF, but I want to explain to you "positive" confession in the way that I have understood it over the years.

One of the first things that I'd like to discuss is what is a "positive" vs. a "negative" confession. The extreme of this teaching led some (but not all) WoF to never say anything "negative". Ultimately, this would result in people who were on their deathbeds saying that they were fine, and there was nothing wrong with them, because they did not want to make a "negative" confession. However, not everyone believed this way, and please remember, this is the "extreme" of this belief (which unfortunately, is what most people focus on.)

So let's say for example that you go to the doctor, and he diagnoses you with cancer. Some extreme positive confession proponents might well tell you that they don't have cancer, no matter what the doctors or tests say. But I do not believe that saying you have cancer is a "negative" confession. It is a simple, documentable fact. However, I believe that there are "facts", and there are "Truths". The "fact" may well be that you have cancer, but the Truth is you have been healed. That supernatural Truth supersedes the natural fact.

These 2 things seem at odds with one another, but they are not. For example, when the 12 spies went to spy out the promised land, they came back with a "factual" report, that there were giants in the land. The Bible called this report, factual as it may have been, an "evil" report. But Joshua and Caleb came back with a different report, having seen the same circumstances before them. They did not deny the fact that there were giants in the land, but they agreed with the report of the Lord, who told them they were well able to overcome the giants. So we see here that the "evil" in that report was NOT the fact that they "confessed" that there were giants in the land, because Joshua and Caleb acknowledged that there were giants also. But the "evil" came in that they allowed those giants to steal away the land God had promised them.

Contrary to what you may have heard, most WoF people don't believe that you'll never have to go through things. In fact, Jesus promises us that in this world, we will have troubles. But He immediately tells us after that to take heart, because He has overcome the world.

So the question of "positive" confession is not so much do you accept or deny "facts", but rather, whose report do you believe? Many times when we get a bad diagnosis, or we get bad news, we focus on that. We talk endlessly about it, focusing on the "fact" and not the "Truth" that we are more than conquerors through Christ. This is what "positive" confession does;

Philippians 4:8 (KJV)
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

You see, we can't constantly focus on negative things and expect positive results. We can't have a steady diet of the news 24/7, hearing about how the economy is in the tank and we're all going down the tubes and think everything is OK. It is not "denial". It is thinking on "whatsoever things are of good report". The difference between the 10 spies that brought back an "evil" report and Joshua and Caleb was that Joshua and Caleb chose to focus on and believe the "good report" that they were well able to take the land.

So after reading this, I hope you'll have a better understanding of what I (and many other WoF people) believe concerning "positive confession". You won't read this on the average "what's wrong with WoF" website, and so I wanted to post what I believe.

There may be giants in the land, but you are well able to overcome them.

If you have any questions or comments, I'd love to hear them.

:cool:
 
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Simon Peter

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If only we can get the rest of WoF to abandon extremism.

This thread may turn into a rush to the middle. Like politicians under scrutiny. ;)

I have read the AoG position paper, a while ago. IIRC, it really bashes extreme positive profession, which is quite easy to do.

The real fight is with moderate WoF, where most of them no doubt see themselves.

In the end, if you're WoF, don't try and claim there's little difference between what you believe and a more traditional non-WoF perspective. Because I can point you to thousands of argument threads on this site that indicate otherwise. :wave:

peace,
Simon
 
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probinson

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If only we can get the rest of WoF to abandon extremism.

This thread may turn into a rush to the middle. Like politicians under scrutiny. ;)

It may interest you to know that I wrote that article 3 years ago, so it's in no way a "rush to the middle" just because I fear your "scrutiny". ;)

:cool:
 
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KingZzub

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Actually Simon, the real fight is the fight of faith not the fight with faith.

If you want to stay in the doubt corner, you can, but don't paint us out to be the extremists. We simply believe God's Word, and receive God's results.
 
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probinson

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In the end, if you're WoF, don't try and claim there's little difference between what you believe and a more traditional non-WoF perspective. Because I can point you to thousands of argument threads on this site that indicate otherwise. :wave:

If you didn't have such an obvious disdain for all things WoF, you'd have realized long ago that the vast majority of WoF people very likely would agree with the position I just posted.

The chasm is not nearly as big as the WoF-detractors portray it.

:cool:
 
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ARBITER01

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It is in PDF format so you will need adobe acrobat to read it. It is link from the Assemblies of God website.

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4183_confession.pdf

For those would like to take the time to read this, I would like to hear what you think about their conclusions in this matter.


It is one of the things they identified and got right. Unfortunately, a good portion of their leadership in churches holds to some sort of word of faith type belief system, so the positive confession stuff still goes on under their banner.
 
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WileyCoyote

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Simon Peter

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It may interest you to know that I wrote that article 3 years ago, so it's in no way a "rush to the middle" just because I fear your "scrutiny". ;)

:cool:

Sorry pete, I wasn't trying to imply you had changed your position. I read your piece. I wasn't talking about you.

Actually Simon, the real fight is the fight of faith not the fight with faith.

If you want to stay in the doubt corner, you can, but don't paint us out to be the extremists. We simply believe God's Word, and receive God's results.

Because I'm not WoF doesn't mean I'm "in the doubt corner".

The church had almost 2000 years of history before the WoF movement came along, and the church managed some wonderful feats of faith.


If you didn't have such an obvious disdain for all things WoF, you'd have realized long ago that the vast majority of WoF people very likely would agree with the position I just posted.

The chasm is not nearly as big as the WoF-detractors portray it.

hmmm, I thought I'd already said that most WoF would agree with you. Does that mean I don't have "an obvious disdain for all things WoF"? In your opinion :)

As for the chasm; like I said, there's plenty of evidence of the size of it on this forum.

In fact the chasm is normally widened at the non-WoF end as they are digging up all the mud and throwing it at us! Lol! ;)

You've slung quite a bit of mud yourself there Ben. LOL! ;)
 
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KingZzub

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I thought I had read something showing the folly of the AoG Position Paper, which like most position papers written by most denominations are the work of committee and pander to the lowest common denominator.

Might have known it would be Troy. His website stopped me going mental during my Bible College years in a traditional Pentecostal college!
 
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ARBITER01

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That's good news, Arbiter, thanks for posting!

Not really, cause most of the people that advocate that stuff in their churches are also very legalistic, on top of being hyper-spiritual, barking and all. But they are becoming the rarity anymore since most AOG churches have taken on a cessionalist type position, at least here in Ohio they are.

I only spent maybe about 2 years in that AOG I was going to. It was enough to learn about the giftings, and that was it, GOD moved me out. I didn't understand why GOD wanted me out of it, but after a few years of being on the outside looking in, it was certainly for the better.
 
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KingZzub

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Look the local AoG church here is seeker friendly, we have two families from there wanting to join us.

I would rather a faith church and even a barking church (I assume you mean animal noises as opposes to the British colloquialism of insane) - and I on the whole have not been a Toronto fan - than a compromised church.
 
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Greetings

This is my first post here. Please be gentle with me.

I am an Assemblies of God elder/pastor. I have been involved in healing and prophetic evangelism for more than 40 years. I have preached in many countries, lately India and Africa.

My name is Roger

Every blessing
 
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lismore

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It is in PDF format so you will need adobe acrobat to read it. It is link from the Assemblies of God website.

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4183_confession.pdf

For those would like to take the time to read this, I would like to hear what you think about their conclusions in this matter.

Thanks:wave:

I have read that before, interesting.

I was in an AOG church that was WOF, although AOG itself is not WOF>

I invited an AOG pastor I know to join this forum. When he arrives he might share what he thinks.
 
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lismore

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Difficult place to be in, being WoF when your denomination is not WoF.

Apart from sending money off annually, the church I was in didnt seem to have any dealings with their group {AOG}. I dont think they produced a statement of beliefs or a membership form or anything like that.

I was surprised when I came across the position paper on the AOG site to see how different the AOG doctrines were from the thigns preached in that individual church.

:)
 
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