The Anytime Rapture View Chart

[Douggg]

The rapture could happen anytime in the blue shaded zone.

 

[keras]

The no 'rapture to heaven' chart:

Blank page, as no scripture says God will take His people to heaven.

 

[BlessedCreator]

We are told exactly when the rapture happens down to very day. Here I'll show you.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJB
"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

We see the rapture (those who are alive remain caught up) happens AFTER the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

So if we can find when the resurrection (the dead in Christ rising) happens we can know that the rapture will happen after.

The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

That's right, the resurrection happens on the "last day". Therefore the rapture happens also on that day right after the resurrection. Nobody is escaping the coming antichrist.

 

[keras]

We are told exactly when the rapture happens down to very day. Here I'll show you.

What you don't make clear; is where people are 'raptured' to. Heaven,

or an earthly location.

In the case of 1 Thess 4:17, Jesus has just come from heaven: His Return in glory, so those people who meet Him in the clouds, will go with Him to Jerusalem, As Matthew 24:31 and Revelation 5:9-10 say. ​

That's right, the resurrection happens on the "last day". Therefore the rapture happens also on that day right after the resurrection. Nobody is escaping the coming antichrist.

When is the actual 'last day'?
Revelation 20:11-15 tells us. After the Millennium, after the 7000 years that God decreed for mankind, is completed.
The end of this Church era, is not the last day, or the last trumpet sound.

Escape the Anti-Christ? Revelation 12:14 shows the faithful people of God will be taken to a place of safety during the 42 month of world control by the AC. Rev 13:5

 

[Douggg]

So if we can find when the resurrection (the dead in Christ rising) happens we can know that the rapture will happen after.

The rationale is flawed.

For example, in the millennium, at the beginning, there is the first resurrection for the martyred great tribulation saints; and at the end, there will another resurrection for the great white throne judgment.

 

[keras]

The rationale is flawed.

For example, in the millennium, at the beginning, there is the first resurrection for the martyred great tribulation saints; and at the end, there will another resurrection for the great white throne judgment.

THIS, I fully agree with.

 

[Nathan Arrand]

What is the "great tribulation"?
The words "great Tribulation" are mentioned in Matthew 24:21 and Rev 2: 22 and 7:14. I think Rev 2:22 can be excluded in this analysis because it is part of the letter to Thyatira.
The great tribulation in Matt 24:21 and Rev 7:14 seems, to me, to refer to persecution/martyrdom of believers.
Matthew 24:21 is referring to fleeing/hiding/escaping from the "abomination that causes desolation" - fleeing from persecution
Rev 7:14, to me, is referring back to the fifth seal (Rev 6:9-11) which is the martyrs in WHITE robes. I say this because (i) John asks who are dressed in WHITE robes and that would mean the martyrs (ii) they had not died from natural disasters but because of their hiding away had died from hunger and thirst (Rev 7:16). Therefore isn't it the martyrs who have gone through the "great tribulation"?
The true believers have always faced persecution and martyrdom. This would be severe worldwide persecution and martyrdom? Is this the "great tribulation"?
To me, it certainly seems the great tribulation is heavy, severe, brutal persecution and martyrdom?
Glad to have your understanding of this.
Thanks

 

[Douggg]

Updated to include placement of Gog/Magog.

 

[Bobber]

What is the "great tribulation"?
The words "great Tribulation" are mentioned in Matthew 24:21 and Rev 2: 22 and 7:14. I think Rev 2:22 can be excluded in this analysis because it is part of the letter to Thyatira.
The great tribulation in Matt 24:21 and Rev 7:14 seems, to me, to refer to persecution/martyrdom of believers.
Matthew 24:21 is referring to fleeing/hiding/escaping from the "abomination that causes desolation" - fleeing from persecution
Rev 7:14, to me, is referring back to the fifth seal (Rev 6:9-11) which is the martyrs in WHITE robes. I say this because (i) John asks who are dressed in WHITE robes and that would mean the martyrs (ii) they had not died from natural disasters but because of their hiding away had died from hunger and thirst (Rev 7:16). Therefore isn't it the martyrs who have gone through the "great tribulation"?
The true believers have always faced persecution and martyrdom. This would be severe worldwide persecution and martyrdom? Is this the "great tribulation"?
To me, it certainly seems the great tribulation is heavy, severe, brutal persecution and martyrdom?
Glad to have your understanding of this.
Thanks

Thing about this though there's a difference between God's wrath as compared to that which God haters put on believers prior to his wrath. Persecution is not wrath as it seems pretribulationists claim it is. So you have the devil doing his thing....persecuting the saints and that can't be of God for a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Matt 12: 25 (so that can't be God's wrath) And the saints who were killed in heaven ask God how long before he avenges their blood Rev 6:10 ....and then he answers them.....a few verses later you see God move....and acts to release HIS wrath. For the great day of this wrath is come....meaning it's just come now. Rev 6:17

 

[tranquil]

I feel like we are making progress.

 

[Douggg]

@tranquil

I think you have pretty much demonstrated -

Having ideas and presenting them in fragmented form textually - get tested when put on a timeline chart, where everything must fit - without having conflicts.

You need to work on your eschatology. And chart making.

 

[nolidad]

The no 'rapture to heaven' chart:

Blank page, as no scripture says God will take His people to heaven.

Wrong again! The Father will not take His children to heaven, but Jesus will come as a bridegroom and take His bride to heaven to marry her! Just as REv. 19. Teh wedding takes place in heaven, so the church must be in heaven.

The order is:

Rapture
Bema seat Judgment
Works saved or destroyed
giving of rewards
Giving of the fine linen.
Marriage takes place
Jesus returns with us and the angels.
Defeats antichrist and hosts.
Abysses satan, antichrist and false prophet
Judgment of the nations
cleansing of the temple
Restoration of earth
Millenial kingdom begins
Wedding supper of the lamb take place!

 

[nolidad]

The rapture could happen anytime in the blue shaded zone.
View attachment 275528

Your chart errs in just one thing. The tribulation period is for Daniels people , physical Israel to purge the sinner out. The church is not subject to the trumpet of bowl judgments. We will be gone before the covenant is signed!

 

[Douggg]

Your chart errs in just one thing. The tribulation period is for Daniels people , physical Israel to purge the sinner out. The church is not subject to the trumpet of bowl judgments. We will be gone before the covenant is signed!

Confirming of the covenant (it not a signing btw) for 7 years is not the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The rapture has to take place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord, 1Thessalonians5:9-11 is the rapture/resurrection, and 1Thessalonians5:2-3 saying peace and safety before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

I didn't say who the 7 year 70th week is for. btw, it is not tribulation period. That is a misnomer got started by the pre-trib holders. Shortened for....pre-tribulation (period). But what they really mean is pre-70th week.

Most of the first portion of the 70th week, will be a false messianic age - will not be tribulation. Which exposes the flaw in the pre-trib terminology. They still could be right in their pre-70th week timing, but also could be wrong because they don't tie the rapture to the beginning of the Day of the Lord, at least not properly.

The 70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem. The Day of the Lord will begin when the Jews, Israel, will be saying peace and safety, thinking they have entered the messianic age.

The rapture can happen any time between now and the beginning of the Day of the Lord. It may be pre-trib (pre-70th week) or it may not. It has to happened within the blue shaded area. The rapture could happen today, in the next few seconds.

 

[Douggg]

@ nolidad Make a chart nolidad of the pre-trib rapture view featuring the beginning of the Day of the Lord, and start a thread. 2Thessalonians2:4 is the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

 

[tranquil]

@tranquil

I think you have pretty much demonstrated -

Having ideas and presenting them in fragmented form textually - get tested when put on a timeline chart, where everything must fit - without having conflicts.

You need to work on your eschatology. And chart making.

What did I demonstrate?

I put your chart into a Revelation framework.

 

[Douggg]

What did I demonstrate?

I put your chart into a Revelation framework.

Have you heard of child abuse? I think what you did could well be called "chart abuse" .

I think you need to make your own chart, not revamping mine, because what you did trying to adopt my chart to your thinking - looks like you have two parallel universes going on. One for what you label "faithful" and another for what you label "unfaithful". The result being total conflicts and confusion.

Get a program like Paintshop Pro. Learn how to use it (will take some time) and make your own chart(s). And then start a new thread, of your Revelation chart, reflecting your view.

 

[keras]

I feel like we are making progress.

This chart is much better that other one here.
My comments are:
The great and terrible Day of the Lords wrath, is the Sixth Seal. Just a one day event.
Gog/Magog does happen after it, when the new peoples, the faithful Christian Israelites of God have settled into their heritage; all of the holy Land. They will prosper as God blesses them. Ezekiel 38:12, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 32:15-20, Psalms 37:29

The final 7 years commences when the leader of the rest of the world makes a peace treaty with Gods people.
It is broken at the mid point by that leader, then revealed as the Anti-Christ. Zechariah 14:1-2
Then; the 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation and with that, Gods wrath is completed. Revelation 15:1
Jesus will Return for His Millennium reign, a 1000 years of peace and righteousness, only broken near the end, as Satan is released for a short time.

Then God will sit in Judgment of everyone who has ever lived and those worthy will go into Eternity with God. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[tranquil]

Have you heard of child abuse? I think what you did could well be called "chart abuse" .

I think you need to make your own chart, not revamping mine, because what you did trying to adopt my chart to your thinking - looks like you have two parallel universes going on. One for what you label "faithful" and another for what you label "unfaithful". The result being total conflicts and confusion.

Get a program like Paintshop Pro. Learn how to use it (will take some time) and make your own chart(s). And then start a new thread, of your Revelation chart, reflecting your view.

Your chart was misbehaving, so I gave it a paddling.

Kidding aside, on your chart, you put the abomination at the 'day of the Lord'.

the day of the Lord arrives at the 6th Seal

Rev 6

12When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slaved and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”​

What does it mean to be 'awake' or 'asleep'?

Rev 3

3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.​

Rev 16

12The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. 13And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. 14For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. 15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) 16And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
​

 

[Douggg]

Kidding aside, on your chart, you put the abomination at the 'day of the Lord'.

I don't know what you mean by "at". But the abomination of desolation follows the transgression of desolation. The AoD I show on the sub line of events below the Day of the Lord line.

transgression of desolation - triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

a little later,

abomination of desolation - triggers the great tribulation