Taoism and Kung Fu Panda

[Quid est Veritas?]

Did anyone else notice the extremely Taoist nature of the three Kung Fu Panda movies? I realise they are based in Kung Fu movies and Chinese culture, so some Asian ideas are to be expected, but they seem explicitly Taoist.

We see repeated Yin-Yang symbolism throughout, from Oogway doing Kung Fu (1) to the Soothsayers predictions (2) to Po in the spirit realm (3). In fact, the whole idea of a Panda invokes the black and white symbol. While not exclusively Taoist, it is closely associated to it.

Po's duality of effortless action or nonaction (Wu-Wei) is evident throughout. His action without action when he seeks food being the prime example, not knowing how he achieves his Kung Fu at that stage. His bumbling persona seeing him being picked as the dragon warrior and just going along with it (1). Po merely follows the flow of the universe in each, ignoring the opposition of the other masters in 2 and seeking lord Shen and then just acting planless but succeeding by trusting that it will be fine and in 3 the very nature of the Panda village is Wu-Wei, like rolling wherever they go and accepting their state.

Shifu acts against the diktat of the universe (the Tao) initially thus disrupting the harmony of the valley with Tai-lung's return. Shen opposes his destiny and comes to a bad end. Kai tries to bend qi to his own ends but ends up being destroyed by his attempt to absorb it. All points to having to follow the will of the Tao or harmony will be disrupted.

There are repeated references to the Universe sending messages and in the first movie the statement "there are no accidents". This clearly refers to the Tao at play as the universe moves harmoniously in spite of your actions. Oogway's talk of the peach pit and the illusion of control also has strong Taoist overtones.

In the first movie Tigress tells Po that the Dragon warrior can survive on the power of the universe and in the third movie it manifests as Qi and from the context of 'what is given can also be taken', this can clearly be read as condensed life diluting and then condensing again of Taoist cosmology. It is then given away at the end of 3 in prodigious amounts, but in essence thus creating further life as all is the One.

Po's nature can be equated to simplicity or Ziran. He tells everyone how awesome they are or how everything they do is cool. He has the naturalness or spontaneity that Taoism treasures. His very name invokes the metaphor of Po or 'uncut wood' to which Taoism wants you to return by accepting the simplicity of the Tao.

On top of this the call to know thyself throughout - there is no secret ingredient in 1, accepting the past in 2, knowing yourself in all forms in 3. This causes Po to achieve Inner peace and mastery of Qi. The spiritual meditation shown done by the various characters are also not of Buddhist nature as they are not seeking detachment from desire and suffering, but acceptance of the state of the universe, of the Tao - Shifu gains peace from Tai Long, Po from his parents' death and from his various roles as teacher, student, adopted and real son.

Basically, it is implied that Po is actually a Taoist sage. His effortless almost unthinking actions throughout the movies are clearly in accord with destiny. He follows the implied Tao of the storyline almost constantly, with the other characters actions largely responsible for disharmony.

 

[awitch]

I've seen the three movies (but not the Legends of Awesomeness series), and thought they were all really well done. This is an interesting analysis but with only the most basic understanding of Taoism, I'm probably not in any place to make an informed comment.

I do suspect the cultural inclusion had much more to do with getting the movies approved for release in China (to the tune of $57 million on opening weekend for KP3) rather than being a promotion of Taoism.

(Was there a particular interest in just this franchise or animation in general?)

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

(Was there a particular interest in just this franchise or animation in general?)

Not really. My son just took a liking to it, so I have been forced to rewatch them a few times. I started thinking on their representation of Asian culture and the more I watched it, the more Taoist elements I saw.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I do suspect the cultural inclusion had much more to do with getting the movies approved for release in China (to the tune of $57 million on opening weekend for KP3) rather than being a promotion of Taoism.

At least in the past, Communist China was quite determined to combat the "rank superstition" of its traditional culture. I don't know if such a link to the past qualifies as a major selling point even today. (Since the film was approved, censorship seems to have lessened, at the very least.)

 

[juvenissun]

Not really. My son just took a liking to it, so I have been forced to rewatch them a few times. I started thinking on their representation of Asian culture and the more I watched it, the more Taoist elements I saw.

You may use it to teach your son Christianity. Dao has quite a bit implications to Christianity.

For example, What does Wu Wei mean in Christianity? Should we fight the climate change? Is politics helpful to the quality of life? etc.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

You may use it to teach your son Christianity. Dao has quite a bit implications to Christianity.

For example, What does Wu Wei mean in Christianity? Should we fight the climate change? Is politics helpful to the quality of life? etc.

I realise this. I investigated Taoism after reading the Abolition of Man by CS Lewis and I agree that a lot of its conceptions are not incompatible with Christianity.
I doubt my son is old enough for such discussions at this point in time though.

 

[Armoured]

Did anyone else notice the extremely Taoist nature of the three Kung Fu Panda movies? I realise they are based in Kung Fu movies and Chinese culture, so some Asian ideas are to be expected, but they seem explicitly Taoist.

We see repeated Yin-Yang symbolism throughout, from Oogway doing Kung Fu (1) to the Soothsayers predictions (2) to Po in the spirit realm (3). In fact, the whole idea of a Panda invokes the black and white symbol. While not exclusively Taoist, it is closely associated to it.

Po's duality of effortless action or nonaction (Wu-Wei) is evident throughout. His action without action when he seeks food being the prime example, not knowing how he achieves his Kung Fu at that stage. His bumbling persona seeing him being picked as the dragon warrior and just going along with it (1). Po merely follows the flow of the universe in each, ignoring the opposition of the other masters in 2 and seeking lord Shen and then just acting planless but succeeding by trusting that it will be fine and in 3 the very nature of the Panda village is Wu-Wei, like rolling wherever they go and accepting their state.

Shifu acts against the diktat of the universe (the Tao) initially thus disrupting the harmony of the valley with Tai-lung's return. Shen opposes his destiny and comes to a bad end. Kai tries to bend qi to his own ends but ends up being destroyed by his attempt to absorb it. All points to having to follow the will of the Tao or harmony will be disrupted.

There are repeated references to the Universe sending messages and in the first movie the statement "there are no accidents". This clearly refers to the Tao at play as the universe moves harmoniously in spite of your actions. Oogway's talk of the peach pit and the illusion of control also has strong Taoist overtones.

In the first movie Tigress tells Po that the Dragon warrior can survive on the power of the universe and in the third movie it manifests as Qi and from the context of 'what is given can also be taken', this can clearly be read as condensed life diluting and then condensing again of Taoist cosmology. It is then given away at the end of 3 in prodigious amounts, but in essence thus creating further life as all is the One.

Po's nature can be equated to simplicity or Ziran. He tells everyone how awesome they are or how everything they do is cool. He has the naturalness or spontaneity that Taoism treasures. His very name invokes the metaphor of Po or 'uncut wood' to which Taoism wants you to return by accepting the simplicity of the Tao.

On top of this the call to know thyself throughout - there is no secret ingredient in 1, accepting the past in 2, knowing yourself in all forms in 3. This causes Po to achieve Inner peace and mastery of Qi. The spiritual meditation shown done by the various characters are also not of Buddhist nature as they are not seeking detachment from desire and suffering, but acceptance of the state of the universe, of the Tao - Shifu gains peace from Tai Long, Po from his parents' death and from his various roles as teacher, student, adopted and real son.

Basically, it is implied that Po is actually a Taoist sage. His effortless almost unthinking actions throughout the movies are clearly in accord with destiny. He follows the implied Tao of the storyline almost constantly, with the other characters actions largely responsible for disharmony.

I admit I've only seen the first one, but I think you may be overthinking it just a little.

 

[awitch]

I admit I've only seen the first one, but I think you may be overthinking it just a little.

It's not like he's pausing it on every frame looking for hidden Easter eggs. I mean, ha ha, who does that, right?
<whistles>

 

[Meowzltov]

I realise this. I investigated Taoism after reading the Abolition of Man by CS Lewis and I agree that a lot of its conceptions are not incompatible with Christianity.
I doubt my son is old enough for such discussions at this point in time though.

CS Lewis wrote that LOGOS was Tao.

As a practitioner of Northern Shao Lin and Tai Chi for many years, I deeply appreciated the Taoism in the Kung Fu Panda movies, though I'm sure it goes right over kids' heads.

Chi is real!

 

[Meowzltov]

You may use it to teach your son Christianity. Dao has quite a bit implications to Christianity.

For example, What does Wu Wei mean in Christianity? Should we fight the climate change? Is politics helpful to the quality of life? etc.

Love the Yin/yang avitar! Do you consider yourself a Taoist Baptist? Read the TaoTe Ching and Chuang Tse etc?

We've had the Tao of Poo. Now we have the Tao of Po.

 

[Fizzywig]

Reading through this in between kitchen chores and other chores commanded by "those who must be obeyed", and thought of Merton's book on Chuang Tzu (in fact a number of rather free translations of Chuang Tzu as they have come down to us) In the introduction Merton insisted that his little book (which he explicitly stated at one point was his favourite of all he had written) was "not a new apologetic subtlety (or indeed a work of Jesuitical sleight of hand) in which Christian rabbits will suddenly appear by magic out of a Taoist hat." Merton goes on to say that he simply likes Chuang Tzu because "he is what he is"..............which is a very good reason to like anyone.

Maybe we make a mistake if we take each "faith" or "teaching" to be complete in and of itself. Each have all the appearance of being fusions and evolutions. Does any stand in pristine purity, complete in and of itself? Some might well claim so ("revelation"?) yet as I see it, this would have absolutely no practical consequence in as much as no one seems able to agree on what that might be.

Chinese zen is a fusion of the practical Chinese mind with Buddhism as imported from India, mixed with a dash of Taoism. Japan has its own cocktail. For me this gets back to something mentioned before, about the difference between external an internal relationships

It seems Christianity is a "relationship" and Buddhism is a "path". Both can be stormy at times.

As the zen koan asks "Why did Bodhidharma come from the West?" (that is, to China)

"Who is this who stands before me" the emperor of China asked. "I don't know" was the reply, or according to other accounts....."A bag of bones with nothing holy in it".

 

[juvenissun]

Love the Yin/yang avitar! Do you consider yourself a Taoist Baptist? Read the TaoTe Ching and Chuang Tse etc?

No. There is no such thing. I am a Baptist.

 

[juvenissun]

Reading through this in between kitchen chores and other chores commanded by "those who must be obeyed", and thought of Merton's book on Chuang Tzu (in fact a number of rather free translations of Chuang Tzu as they have come down to us) In the introduction Merton insisted that his little book (which he explicitly stated at one point was his favourite of all he had written) was "not a new apologetic subtlety (or indeed a work of Jesuitical sleight of hand) in which Christian rabbits will suddenly appear by magic out of a Taoist hat." Merton goes on to say that he simply likes Chuang Tzu because "he is what he is"..............which is a very good reason to like anyone.

Maybe we make a mistake if we take each "faith" or "teaching" to be complete in and of itself. Each have all the appearance of being fusions and evolutions. Does any stand in pristine purity, complete in and of itself? Some might well claim so ("revelation"?) yet as I see it, this would have absolutely no practical consequence in as much as no one seems able to agree on what that might be.

Chinese zen is a fusion of the practical Chinese mind with Buddhism as imported from India, mixed with a dash of Taoism. Japan has its own cocktail. For me this gets back to something mentioned before, about the difference between external an internal relationships

It seems Christianity is a "relationship" and Buddhism is a "path". Both can be stormy at times.

As the zen koan asks "Why did Bodhidharma come from the West?" (that is, to China)

"Who is this who stands before me" the emperor of China asked. "I don't know" was the reply, or according to other accounts....."A bag of bones with nothing holy in it".

A humanist is destined to be lost in humanism, which is a mess of human wisdom.

 

[Meowzltov]

No. There is no such thing. I am a Baptist.

Okay, kewl. Can you explain why you chose the yin/yang as your avitar?

 

[Fizzywig]

A humanist is destined to be lost in humanism, which is a mess of human wisdom.

Hello Juvenissum, I chose the humanist label as the best option, given simply that I am a human being. The choice in no way implies that I subscribe to any particular manifesto or set of beliefs, or even a particular view of the world.

Moving on, as I see it our own "faith system" can be the rock on which we stand, that gives us the impulse and courage to look out upon the world and embrace it as best we can...........or, it can be a castle to be defended against all-comers, which we gradually withdraw into and slam the door behind us.

From the perspective of the Buddhist Faith..........

The dharma, can be discovered through the Buddhist tradition, but Buddhism is by no means the only source of dharma. I would define dharma as anything that awakens the enlightened mind and brings on the direct experience of selflessness. The teachings of Christ are prefumed with dharma. There is dharma in jazz, in beautiful gardens, in literature, in Sufi dance, in Quaker silence, in shaman healing, in projects to care for the homeless and clean up the inner cities, in Catholic ritual, in meaningful and competent work. There is dharma in anything that causes us to respect the innate softness and intelligence of ourselves and others. When the Buddhist system is applied properly, it does not turn us inward toward our own organizations, practices, and ideas. The system has succeeded when the Buddhist can recognize the true dharma at the core of all other religions and disciplines that are based on respect for the human image, and has no need to reject them.

(Extract from a book that I have forgotten the name of, by an author whose name has also slipped my mind)

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

CS Lewis wrote that LOGOS was Tao.

As a practitioner of Northern Shao Lin and Tai Chi for many years, I deeply appreciated the Taoism in the Kung Fu Panda movies, though I'm sure it goes right over kids' heads.

Chi is real!

To quote CS Lewis:

"The Tao, which others may call Natural Law or Traditional Morality or the First Principles of Practical Reason or the First Platitudes, is not one among a series of possible systems of value. It is the sole source of all value judgments. If it is rejected, all value is rejected. If any value is retained, it is retained. The effort to refute it and raise a new system of value in its place is self-contradictory. There has never been, and never will be, a radically new judgment of value in the history of the world. What purport to be new systems or…ideologies…all consist of fragments from the Tao itself, arbitrarily wrenched from their context in the whole and then swollen to madness in their isolation, yet still owing to the Tao and to it alone such validity as they posses."

This is not exactly the Christian idea of the Logos, which is the Second Person of the Trinity. It fits the Stoic Logos better and is not dissimilar to more Taoist conceptions. However he considered it Absolute Morality upon which what is Moral is based, which is of course an aspect of God himself.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Hello Juvenissum, I chose the humanist label as the best option, given simply that I am a human being. The choice in no way implies that I subscribe to any particular manifesto or set of beliefs, or even a particular view of the world.

Moving on, as I see it our own "faith system" can be the rock on which we stand, that gives us the impulse and courage to look out upon the world and embrace it as best we can...........or, it can be a castle to be defended against all-comers, which we gradually withdraw into and slam the door behind us.

From the perspective of the Buddhist Faith..........

The dharma, can be discovered through the Buddhist tradition, but Buddhism is by no means the only source of dharma. I would define dharma as anything that awakens the enlightened mind and brings on the direct experience of selflessness. The teachings of Christ are prefumed with dharma. There is dharma in jazz, in beautiful gardens, in literature, in Sufi dance, in Quaker silence, in shaman healing, in projects to care for the homeless and clean up the inner cities, in Catholic ritual, in meaningful and competent work. There is dharma in anything that causes us to respect the innate softness and intelligence of ourselves and others. When the Buddhist system is applied properly, it does not turn us inward toward our own organizations, practices, and ideas. The system has succeeded when the Buddhist can recognize the true dharma at the core of all other religions and disciplines that are based on respect for the human image, and has no need to reject them.

(Extract from a book that I have forgotten the name of, by an author whose name has also slipped my mind)

Just out of interest, how can you quote such a long and extensive piece of prose without knowing the source or Author?

Faith is a demesne, a territory you hold for your Lord. Sometimes you may incorporate surrounding ideas into it, provided they can be made to swear fealty to your Lord, sometimes you need to hold the ramparts against ravening hordes of impure thought coming to lay waste your lands. Sometimes you can parley with other realms at the borders and leave you both enriched by the exchange.
Some people have more cosmopolitan fiefs, some more parochial, some hold dark sombre towers in an intellectual waste, some hold Border Marches standing mettle to mettle against the Enemy.
What matters is whether your lands are well run and whether you can bring your vassals out in support of your Lord. It is not our place to judge the realm of one who has to stand guard in the cold moors against our own prosperous port.

To bring it back to topic, some have enough resources to tolerate a few philosophers like Taoists or whatever hanging about, spreading learning. Others in dire Castles cannot afford the foodstuffs and distraction from the manning of their defences, or their lands would be overrun by barbarism. A prosperous Kingdom requires both Ivory Towers and dark forboding Keeps.

 

[Fizzywig]

Just out of interest, how can you quote such a long and extensive piece of prose without knowing the source or Author?

Faith is a demesne, a territory you hold for your Lord. Sometimes you may incorporate surrounding ideas into it, provided they can be made to swear fealty to your Lord, sometimes you need to hold the ramparts against ravening hordes of impure thought coming to lay waste your lands. Sometimes you can parley with other realms at the borders and leave you both enriched by the exchange.
Some people have more cosmopolitan fiefs, some more parochial, some hold dark sombre towers in an intellectual waste, some hold Border Marches standing mettle to mettle against the Enemy.
What matters is whether your lands are well run and whether you can bring your vassals out in support of your Lord. It is not our place to judge the realm of one who has to stand guard in the cold moors against our own prosperous port.

To bring it back to topic, some have enough resources to tolerate a few philosophers like Taoists or whatever hanging about, spreading learning. Others in dire Castles cannot afford the foodstuffs and distraction from the manning of their defences, or their lands would be overrun by barbarism. A prosperous Kingdom requires both Ivory Towers and dark forboding Keeps.

Hi, I do in fact "know it" in the sense that it was from a book written by a guy who had been involved with Tibetan Buddhism for many a year but who got our while the going was good. I actually read the entire book which may have been called something like "The Cracked Mirror" and he may have been called something like "Butterfield " but I'm not really sure. Anyway, I have a retentive memory of where I have quoted a few things before and accessed it; copy and paste, job done.

To be honest, I find your own analogies of castles and such just a little bit over the top and thus I regret starting it......yet I think you are seeking to express the necessity of defending a particular creed when the occasion demands it. Go for it!

EDIT.....
The Double Mirror: A Skeptical Journey into Buddhist Tantra Paperback – 1 Sep 1994
by Steve Butterfield (Author)

Amazing what Google can do these days.

 

[dlamberth]

Others in dire Castles cannot afford the foodstuffs and distraction from the manning of their defences, or their lands would be overrun by barbarism. A prosperous Kingdom requires both Ivory Towers and dark forboding Keeps.

This Lover of God has found that Castle walls tend to be way to effective in defending against the here and now of God's presence. Because they are not understood, the God enriched tend to be housed in those Keeps. My cry is to tear down those walls, destroy the keeps, and let lose the Light so that it can run freely through the land!

 

[awitch]

A humanist is destined to be lost in humanism, which is a mess of human wisdom.

As opposed to the mess of Christian wisdom compiled from tens of thousands of different Christian denominations, I suppose.