Spiritual Marriage:

[Stealth001]

Hello, I wanted to present something here and get some input on what some of you might think about something that has been on me and my girlfriend's mind. I'm 37 years old and she's 35. Both of us have been married before and endured very painful and difficult divorces. We both have been blessed with children from our previous marriages. We've been seeing each other for about 3 years. We've lived together for roughly 2 years now and things have actually gone beautifully. We're both born again Christians and our not being married has been a serious concern to both of us. However, neither one of us are big on the idea of civil marriage and the legalities that it brings. I believe most of these concerns stem from each of us having gone through very painful and expensive divorces. I stumbled across a ministry titled, In God's Eyes Only. It advocates "Spiritual Marriage" for couples who want to be married in the eyes of God but who, due to desire or circumstance, don't want a civil marriage subject to the government legal system. Per the website they believe the following:

•Marriage is a covenant not a contract. Frequently, civil marriage complicates inheritance, pensions, social security, medical care, property ownership and many other areas of a union.
•In God's Eyes Only Marriage is a covenant without a marriage license.
•Marriage is a commitment between a man and a woman before God.
•Originally, God brought the idea of monogamy and marriage. Later, men came with the idea of imposing laws around marriage.
•Marriage is a celebration; in fact, Jesus' first miracle was at a wedding where he turned the water into wine.
•Marriage is honorable and blessed of God.
•Marriage declares a partnership between a man and a woman. It celebrates their complementing strengths for each other.
•Marriage is the very sacrament of divine love.
•Marriage is God's answer to loneliness.
•The Bible encourages a man and a woman to commit to each other in the eyes of God.

​

I brought this to the attention of my girlfriend and she actually thinks that it is a good idea for us. Our plans were to "self-officiate" a "Spiritual Marriage" with vows and rings in front of a few close friends and family to serve as witnesses.

While I know that this idea is unconventional, it speaks to our hearts with regards to our desires and experiences with marriage. Her family appears to think it is a beautiful idea. I'm not very close to my family. However, those I've brought it up to think that it's a very interesting option for us.

We both believe that God would bless our union just as He has already, undeservingly, blessed us already. The government appears to have lost it's own definition of marriage, and so we question entrenching our relationship into such a system. In addition, should our union fail, we don't trust the family court system and we absolutely don't trust attorneys. We wish our marriage to be between ourselves and the LORD.

I think our most serious question about all of this is how our Christian brethren might view our marriage. Because of our circumstance we've not attended church regularly so as to not offend. I imagine that some brethren might understand our feelings and why we made this decision and that others might not. I guess I'm here to share the idea and get a feel for what the general response in the larger Christian community might be.

Here is the link to the, In God's Eyes Only, website:

Home_Page

They have a wedding package here:

Products

Thank you so much for your time and consideration. May God richly bless and keep you and yours.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I know most people I know wouldn't call it a marriage. I know I wouldn't. With an ex-fiance of mine we wanted to do the same thing. My parents said if we did it then he would kick me out because we would be living in sin.

I want to say though, just because you both had terrible divorces doesn't mean you should avoid legal marriage. If you truly love each other then you don't need to worry about divorce again. It would be like having a church attack you, then never going to any church again because of what happened. We can't live in fear. I did for many years. I avoided what hurt me and it got me no where...well it did get me somewhere, further from God. >.<

I try to think of things from the aspect of seeing God. Like "If I do this am I willing to risk God telling me I was in the wrong?". If either of you have any urge to question this then there may be some worry going on or as some say conviction. I thought the idea of a spiritual marriage was great until I started asking questions alot out of worry about what others would think also.

Thats all just my view though. Whatever you decide to do I will be praying for you both that God blesses you with a long loving relationship!

 

[seeingeyes]

I think our most serious question about all of this is how our Christian brethren might view our marriage. Because of our circumstance we've not attended church regularly so as to not offend. I imagine that some brethren might understand our feelings and why we made this decision and that others might not. I guess I'm here to share the idea and get a feel for what the general response in the larger Christian community might be.

Most people in most churches would not 'consider' you married. I guess it depends how much you care about that. The bigger question is whether you would 'consider' yourselves married.

This seems like a choice made out of fear. I can imagine being more than a little gun-shy after the experience you each have had, but perhaps it would be good to explore other options, too.

Have you considered an extensive pre-nup? If the two of you could go through all the nasty questions and legalities of that, in would actually be a great indicator that you can make it as husband and wife.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Have you considered an extensive pre-nup?

^that^
If people are worried about messy divorces they get pre-nups drawn out before the marry. This way if you split theres no messy divorce. Rules are already agreed to ahead of time.

 

[Stealth001]

^that^
If people are worried about messy divorces they get pre-nups drawn out before the marry. This way if you split theres no messy divorce. Rules are already agreed to ahead of time.

Pre-nups are thrown out all the time.

 

[Stealth001]

I'd like to thank you both for your replies.

My ladylove and I have talked about this subject and we both agree that we would truly consider ourselves "married in the eyes of God". Most who know us say we already look and behave like husband and wife.

As for doing this out of fear&#8230; I&#8217;m not sure if I&#8217;d call it fears. It feels more like wisdom born from having &#8220;been there and done that&#8221;.

We both know how dreamy eyed a couples can be. How a couple can assume that they will always love one another for all eternity. However, circumstances arise and sadly&#8230; people change. It&#8217;s just a fact of life. If they remain prayerful and communicate, they change together. However, there are no guarantees.

Also, our divorces were rather ugly, painful, and expensive. We both have stories about how our attorneys and our ex&#8217;s attorneys essentially encouraged trumped up accusations, used scare tactics to encourage a more forceful response, etc. In the end&#8230; the attorneys made out like bandits.

The modern family court system is corrupt. First, they don&#8217;t use their authority to enforce proper grounds from divorce. Second, they often rule in favor of unbelieving spouses who are the ones actually guilty of infidelity. Custody can be limited if the court feels that religion plays an excessive role in the home. In addition, pre-nups are thrown out all the time. They mean virtually nothing. It&#8217;s a big gamble. Not to mention&#8230; Paul admonished Christians not to take one another before the courts of the unbelievers. A legal civil marriage requires the court system&#8217;s involvement should the union fail:

"3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?" ~ Paul, I Corinthians 6:3-7 (ESV)
​

As Christians, we should seek to take care of our personal matters more privately, not in the courts.

And also, during my studies on this, I discovered something about Quakers. Traditional Quakers don&#8217;t have clergy. So, traditionally, they had no licensed &#8220;agent of the state&#8221; to officiate their weddings. In addition, their strong stance on the Separation of Church and State, resulted in their desire to not be entangled with the government as much as possible. Couples traditionally declare their love for one another and desire to marry. Once the congregation has verified that there is no reason why a couple shouldn&#8217;t be married, the couple &#8220;self-officiates&#8221; their wedding, declaring one another to be husband and wife before witnesses within the congregation. Some couples choose to marry within the meeting without registering their marriage with the government, a tradition dating back to Quakerism's earliest days. So these &#8220;Quaker Weddings&#8221; are &#8220;Spiritual Weddings&#8221; that are government free.

In away&#8230; the more I study the subject&#8230; the more I realize that a spiritual wedding is more biblical, and follows more closely to the original intent of God wherein a marriage is a private covenant between a man, a woman, and God. In a way&#8230; such a marriage would be far more like a true marriage than a civil marriage wherein the government has rule of law over the couple.

Not to mention that our government is poised to embrace &#8220;gay marriage&#8221;. Why should we as Christians desire to become entangled in such a corrupt and godless family law system??? The system is in direct opposition against God.


Here are a few interesting quotes that I gleaned from my research on the matter:

"My personal opinion is government shouldn&#8217;t be involved. The whole country would be better off if individuals made those decisions and it was a private matter." ~ Ron Paul

"The best approach is to make marriage a private matter. When we no longer believe that civilization is dependent on government expansion, regulating excesses, and a license for everything we do, we will know that civilization and the ideas of liberty are advancing." ~ Ron Paul

"Christian couples should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriage in their Family Bibles. So should we." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"As a minister, I cannot in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws. I also cannot marry someone with a marriage license because to do so I have to act as an agent of the State&#8212;literally! I would have to sign the marriage license, and I would have to mail it into the State. Given the State&#8217;s demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given its unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, it would be an act of idolatry for me to do so." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella
​

Jesus said&#8230;.

"What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.&#8221; ~ Jesus, Mark 10:9 (ESV)
​

However, as &#8220;agents of the state&#8221; ministers traditionally declare:

&#8220;By the power vested in me by the state of _____ I now pronounce you husband and wife.&#8221;
​

Now&#8230; WHO joins a man and a woman together? God&#8230; or the State???

In a way&#8230; the very notion is idolatrous statist thinking. The STATE has NO power to join a man and a woman. That power resides in God&#8217;s hands alone.

Perhaps the challenges that the institution of marriage happens to be facing today are BECAUSE of the government having sole authority over marriage. If the government wasn&#8217;t the authority on marriage&#8230; private contracts would be honored. And that means grounds for divorce as specified in marriage contracts would be the only grounds for divorce, we'd not have &#8220;no fault&#8221; divorce unless the contract stated such. Additionally the courts involvement would be very limited if the couple dissolved their union per their private contractual arrangement. The courts would only come into play after a &#8220;breach of contract&#8221;. Instead of a single body of laws being forced on every couple&#8230; each couple&#8217;s marriage contract would reflect their values and their religions values. The government could once more begin treating each citizen equally, married or not. No special benefits for marrieds, thereby the social program coopted by the government called marriage would be completely moved to the private sphere. A privatization of marriage. Marriage would return to being the domain of the individual couple and their families.

In America today something like 43% to 47% of couples are cohabitating, or have cohabitated, without being legally married. Why? Are they really &#8220;in rebellion&#8221; against God? Or could it be because of the government&#8217;s involvement, the stakes have been raised so high&#8230; any wise individual can see that the gamble is far too great, given human nature and the system itself. Perhaps cohabitating couples aren&#8217;t &#8220;in rebellion&#8221; against God. Maybe they want to be safe from an overbearing and overregulating governmental system. Maybe they don't want to be entangled in a worldly and Godless family justice system that they cannot trust. Maybe they want marriage as God intended... two free people living together, committed in the bonds of mutual love.

Those are just some of my personal thoughts.

 

[Stealth001]

Marriage is the most ancient covenantal relationship of mankind. It predates all religions, churches, and even governments. Therefore, how can it be entirely subject to them? Government cannot balance the budget, protect our 2nd Amendment rights (natural rights), manage Social Security, or manage national health care. So, why do we want to hand marriage over to the government's absolute authority? lol

We talk about "saving the institution of marriage". But we have handed marriage over to the most irresponsible authority man has ever known... government. No wonder marriage is in trouble.

It's strange... some people have been unbiblically married 7 or 8 times and are still considered "legally married" and many are accepted by the church. However, a devout couple living within the bonds of love may have been faithful to one another for many decades... and they are rejected because their "marriage" isn't legalized and approved by the state???

What gives?

Just things that make me go... "Hmmmmm".

This is why I believe in "Spiritual Marriage" and the idea of privatizing marriage completely.

 

[seeingeyes]

Marriage that is recognized by the state is just that - a marriage that exists that is then recognized by the state. The state does not 'create' marriage.

Having said that, there are a lot of benefits to having a state-recognized marriage. (I'm sure you know the pros as well as the cons.)

Something you should consider is that the state was not the main problem in each of your divorces. Your spouses were the problem (and perhaps each of you also contributed to the messiness as well).

My point about the pre-nup was not that it is an iron-clad way of heading off all legal issues (Ha!), but that the creation of a very specific pre-nup might help each of you learn about the other. Sort of like a premarital divorce. If the divorce is the part that worries you, it might help to just get it out of the way before you marry.

 

[Stealth001]

Marriage that is recognized by the state is just that - a marriage that exists that is then recognized by the state. The state does not 'create' marriage.

Having said that, there are a lot of benefits to having a state-recognized marriage. (I'm sure you know the pros as well as the cons.)

Something you should consider is that the state was not the main problem in each of your divorces. Your spouses were the problem (and perhaps each of you also contributed to the messiness as well).

Agreed. The main problem in any failed marriage rests within the people. Yet the state does contribute significantly. For example, with "no fault" divorce... a couple isn't required to attend marriage counseling or given a manditory waiting period. Legalities often tie up a divorce and it stretches on for years (mine almost took four years). Attorneys encourage infighting and will scare the daylights out of you. For example, my attorney tried to get me to accuse my ex of physically abusing our son. When I told him I don't ever remember her physically abusing our son, the attorney said, "Frankly, if you 'remembered' something threatening, I have to take your word and act on it as though it happened." I said, "Are you encouraging me to lie and accuse my ex of abusing our son???" He said, "No. I'd never tell you to lie. However,... nothing is stopping your ex from lying about you. Above all... what's in you and your son's best interests???" My blood ran cold. The attorneys on both sides faught DIRTY. It was pure hell. I almost had a nervous breakdown. And at one point... I even thought to myself that I'd rather be dead than deal with it another day.

Who on earth would want to subject themselves to the possibility of that after having experienced it once already???

So yes, the government and the family court system were MAJOR contributors to the pain, stress, and anxiety I experienced.

At least with a Spiritual Marriage not only is our relationship deeply private and personal... should our union fail... we can deal with it in a deeply and private manner. We could also seek to establish a "co-habitation agreement" that serves much like a pre-nup to protect the interests of couples who are not legally married. Not to mention, my locality has "Domestic Partner Regestry" where in all the benefits of a spouse can be given to my "significant other".

Basically, we're seeking to ensure that we NEVER experience the hell on earth we experienced with regards to our divorces.

My point about the pre-nup was not that it is an iron-clad way of heading off all legal issues (Ha!), but that the creation of a very specific pre-nup might help each of you learn about the other. Sort of like a premarital divorce. If the divorce is the part that worries you, it might help to just get it out of the way before you marry.

There is a lot of truth to that. We've been together now for about 3 years. Being 37 and 35, having children, and being previously married, we've had extensive talks that both of us never had with our previous spouses prior to marriage. We're not big on the pre-nups. They don't really hold up in court most of the time. However, if the expectations and terms of dissolution are established in a private contract (like a cohabitation agreement, or what I'd like to see... a private marriage contract) up front... we know what's expected of us and the terms of our parting are spelled out in the very document that grounds our relationship. I so wish they'd privatize marraige.

Are you married? How long have you been married? I was married 12 years before it fell apart. Another 4 years passed before it was finally settled legally. Have you been through a divorce? It's tough. Part of me actually respects couples who don't want to subject one another to the horrors of the current state of legal marriage.

 

[Stealth001]

Essentially, we'd have a small gathering of close friends and family. We'd self-officiate the wedding "... in the sight of God and those we love". We'd have a "Marriage Certificate" provided by the ministry and signed by ourselves and four witnesses (two from each side).

Her mother (who has been married to Christina's grandfather all her adult life) is very intrigued by the idea. She's seen the marriages of all her children fail. She said, "For some reason today, once a couple makes things legal it goes downhill. I don't understand it." My grandparents were together over 35 years without being "legally married". I think they might have qualified for being married under "Common Law".

Why do so many churches and fellow believers seem to think a marriage cannot be a private contract or spiritual agreement??? Why must the government be involved for it to be viewed as authentic?

 

[Stealth001]

Also, how do we reconcile Paul's admonition to NOT bring one another up before the courts of the unbelievers with requiring that marriage be legalized and dissolved by the legal system of the government???

How do we justify participation in the current legal institution of marriage... when all it's laws are unbiblical and actually undermine God's true intentions for marriage??? Like the Quakers... shouldn't we be marrying without involving the government anyway???

 

[Stealth001]

As y'all can probably see... I've been studying marriage including it's history, legality, and it's biblical foundations for over a year now. Sorry if I have a lot to say on the issue. lol

 

[seeingeyes]

Are you married? How long have you been married? I was married 12 years before it fell apart. Another 4 years passed before it was finally settled legally. Have you been through a divorce? It's tough. Part of me actually respects couples who don't want to subject one another to the horrors of the current state of legal marriage.

I got married at a stupidly young age, we've been married 14 years, and we still like each other.

So no, I have not been through that myself.

For the record, though, I would consider the two of you married with the ceremony you outlined.

Common law marriage was an attempt to 'officialize' the marriages that were already happening. It has since fallen out of favor (and mostly out of law), but the fact that it ever existed at all is a testament to the fact that the paperwork does not make a marriage a marriage.

 

[Stealth001]

Here's one of the earliest biblical examples I can find outside of Adam and Eve concerning the marital union of a couple:

Genesis 24:62-67 (GNT)
62 Isaac had come into the wilderness of[b] “The Well of the Living One Who Sees Me” and was staying in the southern part of Canaan. 63 He went out in the early evening to take a walk in the fields and saw camels coming. 64 When Rebecca saw Isaac, she got down from her camel 65 and asked Abraham's servant, “Who is that man walking toward us in the field?”
“He is my master,” the servant answered. So she took her scarf and covered her face.
66 The servant told Isaac everything he had done. 67 Then Isaac brought Rebecca into the tent that his mother Sarah had lived in, and she became his wife. Isaac loved Rebecca, and so he was comforted for the loss of his mother.

​

The moment she chose to tent with Issac, she was considered his wife. It's interesting how marriage went from being so private and intimate to being a "governmental institution". I think the key is witnesses before God that can hold you accountable in your spiritual walk with your mate.

Since so many Quakers don't seek to "legalize" their marriages... are they considered "married in the eyes of God"? Or should we regard them as shacking up? And if Quakers can be married in the eyes of God... why can't my ladylove and I?

These are all very deep ethical questions I've had brewing for many weeks now. Forgive me if they're a bit jumbled.

 

[seeingeyes]

Here's one of the earliest biblical examples I can find outside of Adam and Eve concerning the marital union of a couple:

Genesis 24:62-67 (GNT)
62 Isaac had come into the wilderness of[b] “The Well of the Living One Who Sees Me” and was staying in the southern part of Canaan. 63 He went out in the early evening to take a walk in the fields and saw camels coming. 64 When Rebecca saw Isaac, she got down from her camel 65 and asked Abraham's servant, “Who is that man walking toward us in the field?”
“He is my master,” the servant answered. So she took her scarf and covered her face.
66 The servant told Isaac everything he had done. 67 Then Isaac brought Rebecca into the tent that his mother Sarah had lived in, and she became his wife. Isaac loved Rebecca, and so he was comforted for the loss of his mother.

​

The moment she chose to tent with Issac, she was considered his wife. It's interesting how marriage went from being so private and intimate to being a "governmental institution". I think the key is witnesses before God that can hold you accountable in your spiritual walk with your mate.

Since so many Quakers don't seek to "legalize" their marriages... are they considered "married in the eyes of God"? Or should we regard them as shacking up? And if Quakers can be married in the eyes of God... why can't my ladylove and I?

These are all very ethical questions I've had brewing for many weeks now. Forgive me if they're a bit jumbled.

Don't worry about that. It's hard work killing off our own sacred cows.

 

[Stealth001]

I got married at a stupidly young age, we've been married 14 years, and we still like each other.

So no, I have not been through that myself.

For the record, though, I would consider the two of you married with the ceremony you outlined.

Common law marriage was an attempt to 'officialize' the marriages that were already happening. It has since fallen out of favor (and mostly out of law), but the fact that it ever existed at all is a testament to the fact that the paperwork does not make a marriage a marriage.

Excellent point. Common Law Marriage was codified into law to faciliate Quakers, Amish, etc. who avoided the government. In addition, it facilitated those living out in unsettled country who had very little access to cities, judges, or preachers. Sometimes the circuit riding preacher would "bless" the common law marriage after the winter season when he was able to travel to their unsettled homesteads.

It's all a VERY interesting study. Very intresting indeed, especially with marriage being such a big social topic right now.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Why do so many churches and fellow believers seem to think a marriage cannot be a private contract or spiritual agreement??? Why must the government be involved for it to be viewed as authentic?

I know people hate when I say this but the bible says to follow the laws of your government, unless they interfere with our lives as christians. So if the state doesn't recognize your marriage, then you are not married in Gods eyes since you are not following the laws of where you live.

I wouldn't want to die and find out I was living in adultery for 40+ years because God didn't recognize my marriage. I don't know, just seems like as christians we put to much on the line because we are willing to reason why some things are ok to do and why some things aren't.

I know from also nearly doing this type of marriage I felt convicted about it after awhile. It seemed like God was bonking on the head with the bible.

 

[Stealth001]

I know people hate when I say this but the bible says to follow the laws of your government, unless they interfere with our lives as christians. So if the state doesn't recognize your marriage, then you are not married in Gods eyes since you are not following the laws of where you live.

I wouldn't want to die and find out I was living in adultery for 40+ years because God didn't recognize my marriage. I don't know, just seems like as christians we put to much on the line because we are willing to reason why some things are ok to do and why some things aren't.

I know from also nearly doing this type of marriage I felt convicted about it after awhile. It seemed like God was bonking on the head with the bible.

Soooo... devout Quakers are hellbound???

 

[Mikeb85]

Plenty of religions and various sects do this, though mostly in other countries. In the country that my wife is from, 90% of marriages are religious only, and not 'legal'.

In Canada, simply living together for a length of time gives you the same legal rights as marriage (common-law), so getting an actual marriage certificate is redundant unless you also want to change your name or get a pre-nup...

 

[Mikeb85]

Anyhow, I'm all in favour of a 'religious' marriage, as long as you, your spouse, family and congregation bless it.

In some Christian communities these sorts of things are a scam people perpetrate to get someone to sleep with them. Of course I have no doubt the two of you are sincere, but arrangements such as these require more discipline since the law offers no official protection to either party (depending on country of course - my country does consider common-law couples the same as married couples).