Some specific tattoo concerns

[Silent_J]

I'm a freshman in college, I'm currently going through a period of change in Christ, and I've been thinking about getting a tattoo as an outward, physical sign of faith. I'm having trouble coming up with what I want, however, so would any of you care to help me understand:
The history and symbolism of the "Jesus" fish and IXOYE (lots of reasons I want a fish)
Tattoo placement and what it means (esp. inner wrist tattoos)
Traditional Australian tattoos (where I'm from)
Women and tattoos
Christianity and tattoos (I've always heard that it's wrong, but I never heard why, really)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out on this stuff!

 

[Beanieboy]

History of the Christian Fish Symbol

I like the idea of having a fish, but the Jesus fish has unfortunately come under bad association with a lot of nonChristians, mostly because it is put on people's cars, I suppose. It comes off as "I'm saved, you're not!" kind of thing, kind of haughty. It probably isn't meant that way, but telling everyone that you are a Christian is not the way Christ told us that all men would know us, but by the love we have for one another. I still like the fish, and am thinking about getting two orange koi swimming like yin and yang in a field of blue and green seaweed.

So, I would go with a different kind of fish. Then, when people ask you about it, you can explain why you got it, what it means to you, and share your faith. However, if someone had a Jesus fish, I would hesitate to ask, because I would fear they were going to try to sell me Jesus like a used car ("well, if you die tonight..."), would tell me that I was going to hell and start judging me on any imperfection, or would sell Jesus like a telephone salesman who won't take no for an answer.

Here's one of koi
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Here is another
http://www.tonya.me.uk/9-Graphics-Constant/tattoos/koi-fish-japanese-tattoo.gif
this one is actually kind of cool
http://media.nowpublic.net/images/42/7/4274c23f8153fad4fbfef499b945b879.jpg
Here is another
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.religioustattoos.net/Images/Jesus_Fish_IXOYE/jesus_fish_34_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.religioustattoos.net/Other_Tattoos/Jesus_Fish_IXOYE/jesus_fish_34.php&usg=__9AVGzobAmik_yOSD_ku-Hsnbqe4=&h=314&w=346&sz=19&hl=en&start=13&um=1&tbnid=snPVuYYinDV83M:&tbnh=109&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djesus%2Bfish%2Btattoo%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

For me, I would like these more than the open Jesus fish because for me personally, it simply reminds me more of Jesus dividing the fishes and the loaves for the crowd, and thus, giving unto others, and being Fishers of Men, bringing people to God, rather than yelling at the fish to jump in the boat, and blaming them when they don't.

But, it's personal, and your call.

 

[Silent_J]

Thank you, Beanieboy

I'm very happy you mentioned being a fisher of men, because that's one reason why i wear this traditional Maori fishhook instead of a cross necklace:
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens6958962_1252751171maori-hei-matau.jpg
I'm interested by your opinion that the Jesus fish has negative connotations within non-believer circles these days. While this makes me sad, I also don't wish to make my neighbor sin or be a poor witness, so I'll keep that in mind.

The blue/green ixoye is absolutely beautiful! It's my favorite of them all.

I appreciate your help very much.

 

[Skaloop]

I'm a freshman in college, I'm currently going through a period of change in Christ, and I've been thinking about getting a tattoo as an outward, physical sign of faith. I'm having trouble coming up with what I want, however, so would any of you care to help me understand:
The history and symbolism of the "Jesus" fish and IXOYE (lots of reasons I want a fish)
Tattoo placement and what it means (esp. inner wrist tattoos)
Traditional Australian tattoos (where I'm from)
Women and tattoos
Christianity and tattoos (I've always heard that it's wrong, but I never heard why, really)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out on this stuff!

While tattoo placement may have had significance in the past, I am not aware of any current meanings based on where a tattoo is. With so many people getting inked nowadays, I don't think placement will be an issue.

Regarding Austrailian tattoos, the tribal images they use might not lend themselves to a specific Jesus fish tattoo. It is possible to incorporate them, I suppose, but it would differ from the well-known Jesus fish. A good tattoo artist should be able to develop a compromise that includes some traditional Aussie elements. If you do go that route, be sure to select an artist that has knowledge and experience of the Australian symbology.

Women and tattoos is no different than men and tattoos. Do what you feel is right, not what some unwritten societal gender rule might suggest.

 

[Beanieboy]

I don't want to put too much importance on my opinion.

How do nonChristian's feel about the Jesus fish?

I would suggest spending some time in prayer talking to God about it, and ask him what he thinks, and listen.

 

[Skaloop]

I don't want to put too much importance on my opinion.

How do nonChristian's feel about the Jesus fish?

Honestly, I feel it's a bit silly. Like you mentioned before, I usually just see it on cars. And part of me wants to get little feet to add to it to make it a Darwin fish.

Anyway, I've been told (and correct me if I am wrong) that the Jesus fish symbol was used because way back when Christians were persecuted for showing a cross. So the fish was a secret symbol. Considering how Christianity is now completely mainstream and accepted, I feel that the fish symbol is sort of meaningless, since one can just have a cross, which is more recognized. On the other hand, though, I can see how it would be a symbol of devotion to one's faith.

My main problem with Jesus fish is that all too often I see them on cars that are speeding through school zones, or driving recklessly. Which to me goes against the whole idea of the fish in the first place.

 

[Silent_J]

@skaloop: one reason I want a wrist tattoo is because when I lift my hands to pray and praise, I'll see it and be reminded.

Also, fish are an important symbol in my life, and just wanted to be able to trace my idea of "Jesus fish" back to the Bible.

@beanieboy: don't you worry, every step I take is being prayerfully considered

 

[keith99]

I'm a freshman in college, I'm currently going through a period of change in Christ, and I've been thinking about getting a tattoo as an outward, physical sign of faith. I'm having trouble coming up with what I want, however, so would any of you care to help me understand:
The history and symbolism of the "Jesus" fish and IXOYE (lots of reasons I want a fish)
Tattoo placement and what it means (esp. inner wrist tattoos)
Traditional Australian tattoos (where I'm from)
Women and tattoos
Christianity and tattoos (I've always heard that it's wrong, but I never heard why, really)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out on this stuff!

The first shall be last, and the last first.

Check the OT Law. There is a verse saying you shall not mark your skin or put out eyes and hte like. It is a reference to old ways of mourning the dead. SOme consider it a general prohibition, others specific to the mourning of the dead.

Only things I know that could relate to tattoo placement goes to BDSM culture. Left for dominant and right for submissive. I don't think these hold elsewhere, but worth considering.

If yuo know any of any Maori or Australian Aborginie Churches those would be excellent places to ask, both for your specifics and an overview of how tattoos from those cultures and Christianity might interact.

Oh one last thing, In many Islander cultures the old school idea is that tattoos are earned, you can not just decide to get one. Not many non-Islanders care about that, but I think yuo might.

EDIT: See Leviticus 19:27-29.

 

[BlackSabb]

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but I would advise you NOT to get a tattoo. Firstly, you don't need any "outward symbol" of your faith. I do see that as somewhat immature.

And secondly, I doubt whether you have considered the cosmetic appearance over the rest of your life. You're just thinking of the here and now. When you're 50+, will you seriously still be happy with a permanent tattoo?

Just concentrate on developing your faith and drop the tattoo.

 

[Blackmarch]

I'm a freshman in college, I'm currently going through a period of change in Christ, and I've been thinking about getting a tattoo as an outward, physical sign of faith. I'm having trouble coming up with what I want, however, so would any of you care to help me understand:
The history and symbolism of the "Jesus" fish and IXOYE (lots of reasons I want a fish)
Tattoo placement and what it means (esp. inner wrist tattoos)
Traditional Australian tattoos (where I'm from)
Women and tattoos
Christianity and tattoos (I've always heard that it's wrong, but I never heard why, really)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out on this stuff!

My advice is not to get a tattoo... If you really want something like that I suggest looking into henna or body paints.

If you are hellbent on getting a tattoo be really sure it's something that you are going to like and have meaning to you 20-30 years down the road (and beyond)

Design wise I prefer tribals, thy're pretty neutral and are nifty looking. I don't care much for the use of christian (or other religious) symbols, outward signs usually don't mean much to me, and tend to get misused and abused.

If you are going thru a period of change faith wise, and you want a faith based tattoo I suggest at least waiting until you feel the period of change is over or nearly over before getting one.

 

[LittleNipper]

I'm a freshman in college, I'm currently going through a period of change in Christ, and I've been thinking about getting a tattoo as an outward, physical sign of faith. I'm having trouble coming up with what I want, however, so would any of you care to help me understand:
The history and symbolism of the "Jesus" fish and IXOYE (lots of reasons I want a fish)
Tattoo placement and what it means (esp. inner wrist tattoos)
Traditional Australian tattoos (where I'm from)
Women and tattoos
Christianity and tattoos (I've always heard that it's wrong, but I never heard why, really)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out on this stuff!

You know that you can get a henna painted "tattoo" that lasts about 2 weeks and eventually wears off. You might just want to try that before you do something you may regret later...

 

[Silent_J]

Thanks, BlackSabb, blackmarch and Keith99, for your concerns, I'll try to address them as clearly as I can:
@Keith99, I'm asking my Old Testament Professor today about the context and original Hebrew translation of Leviticus 19. I've read and re-read this chapter during my period of search, and it makes me wonder how one verse could be interpreted in so many ways: what was God's intent for his immediate audience versus us now? is one topic we are discussing right now in class. If I may, please take a look at this New Testament quote from Paul - Galatians 6:17 - PassageLookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com
Also, thank you for your info regarding left and right tattoos...a little disturbing, but I'll keep that in my prayers. And I'm in the US at this moment in time, but I'm trying to get in contact with some of our Aboriginal Church friends and see what they have to say

@BlackSabb, I'm preparing to be a conceptual artist; I communicate ideas to our visually-driven world by images. In a situation, such as an art show, where people are gathered all together and have come to respond to the images they see, my tattoo (being conceptual art itself and a medium most people of my generation are familiar with and comfortable talking about) will not only be an intro to evangelism, but also a personal visual reminder (think purity ring or cross necklace) of my commitment to Christ and His plan for me.
And, to be honest, the idea of hating (and I mean TRULY hating) my permanently marked skin 50 years down the road is something I'll deal with once I'm 50 years down the road For me, for my next 30 years, I can see myself wearing this mark of my faith. Maybe not fifty years, but definitely thirty.
And if I may defend myself here, I don't think I've ever been LESS immature about something in my life. This is a decision that none of my family or I will take lightly. This is being prayed and read and studied and prayed some MORE over. I'm feeling very convicted about this.

@Blackmarch, thank you also for your warning. However, you've got it backwards, in my opinion (no offense! please don't shout at me, Reb Tevye!) For me, this tattoo isn't about putting a permanent mark on my body just because it looks cool and I like it. That comes into it, yes, but it also needs deeper meaning. Yes, I could come up with whatever kind of interpretation I want for almost any tattoo I could get, but unless God is the reason behind my decision, and unless I'm reminded of that every time I see it, then there's no point, and I should just forget about it.

Thanks to you all for your opinions; I feel like I'm coming closer and closer to being ready to do this. Still a lot of prayer needed, but we're getting there!

 

[Silent_J]

You know that you can get a henna painted "tattoo" that lasts about 2 weeks and eventually wears off. You might just want to try that before you do something you may regret later...

I've got it inked on my wrist right now. If I paint it in clear nail polish, we'll see how long it lasts...and how I can stand it.

 

[keith99]

Thanks, BlackSabb, blackmarch and Keith99, for your concerns, I'll try to address them as clearly as I can:
@Keith99, I'm asking my Old Testament Professor today about the context and original Hebrew translation of Leviticus 19. I've read and re-read this chapter during my period of search, and it makes me wonder how one verse could be interpreted in so many ways: what was God's intent for his immediate audience versus us now? is one topic we are discussing right now in class. If I may, please take a look at this New Testament quote from Paul - Galatians 6:17 - PassageLookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com
Also, thank you for your info regarding left and right tattoos...a little disturbing, but I'll keep that in my prayers. And I'm in the US at this moment in time, but I'm trying to get in contact with some of our Aboriginal Church friends and see what they have to say

Thanks for the reply to my and others comments. It shows a level of ongoing thought and consideration often missing online (a good thing in someone considering a lasting action).

My thought on the Galatians passage is that Paul is refering to scars from the actions taken against him by others because of his preaching Christ. Not directly applicable to your situation. It does however relate to some earlier comments about the fish. Here in the states I have noticed that many who make the greatest outward display of being in a group are often the worst representatives of the group. It honestly is most noticable with Christians, but once I really started paying atttention I realized it holds for allmost any group. If they proclaim it on their car they are often jerks, and you can see it in their actions while driving.

In an earlier post you said you were considering getting the tat on your wrist so you would see it when raising yuor arms. I think that is a good motivation. I also think you might want to think more on that and get something special to you. Oh you might want to have it based on a fish or cross, but have details that speak to you.

At one point I considered what I would get if I ever got a tat and considered a white rose. (look it up, World war II in Germany). I decided no, in large part because those involved in the White Rose were foolish and ended because of that foolishness. If I ever do get a tat it is apt to be just 9-27, a reference no one would ever get. (Actually if I did get a tat I'd research this and be sure I have the presentation correct). It refers the the 9th Regiment of the 27th division. A rather unusual unit in the German Army. It had dozens of officers exectured for Treason, all men I admire. You might want to think of something similar, those who stood for their faith that you admire and that will give you a tradition to live up to. (Though do take care, you want to admire others who have kept faith, not worship them, if that is a danger to you avoid it).