Social Myths About Paganized Christianity and (pure) Hebrew culture

[Pavel Mosko]

I'm posting half of a Blog entry I wrote 2 years ago. I knew someone in the Charismatic movement who was a crusader against Christmas, especially the Christmas tree. In my life, I've seen a lot of that sort of thing. Anyway this is the last half of that write up, that deals with some of the fallacies of that type of thinking etc.



Point 3) Inconsistencies and Myths about Culture
1) People who make these overly strict rules are usually not entirely consistent in their application of such principles (and thank God for that). What I’m saying is we have some aspects of the pagan heritage that are embedded deep in our society that are hard to escape from. A few examples: The Months of the Year come from Roman pagan society, while the names of the days of the week come directly from Norse pagan society. Do such people protest these bits of paganism by refusing to use such terminology? Another example is our money, it is no secret that many of the Founding Fathers were Masons and used the symbols taken from Egyptian paganism. Do such people refuse to use US dollar bills because “The All-Seeing Eye of Ra” is printed on one side? I suspect the answer in most cases would be “No”, since that would extremely inconvenient.


2) A) Besides this there are some myths about culture. Many Charismatics have almost a Gnostic conception of a pure “Spiritual” belief or practice that is free of culture. The first time I recognized this was reading a Ken Hagin book, “Plans, Purposes, and Pursuits” when he spoke about “worship in the Spirit”. He chastised people who did “Square Dancing” during the Church service (dancing in the Spirit), and said “that was fleshly”. He however approved of the “Pentecostal hop”, which I guess seems more visceral and therefore more spiritual. This sort of reasoning is nonsense. Almost everything we do is culture related. The Pentecostal hop is just a product of a special sub culture. It is not something that is purely spiritual. Maybe the first people who did it, reacted that way, but once others see others do it. You get into “monkey see, monkey do”. And yes, even if you are against “the teaching of men”, you do end up develop your own unique cultural tradition.


B) One thing should also be said of Hebrew Culture before ending the post. Because Hebrew culture is the culture of the Bible, and the Jews are “God’s Chosen people” many people see Hebrew culture as something that is pure and Holy, spiritual etc. To those kinds of notions, I have to remind people that every culture beyond The Garden of Eden comes from somewhere else! Before Abraham left UR of the Chaldees he resided in a pagan land and had the culture of that land. You can see that in the Old Testament itself. Why do you think God is always appearing in the Pentateuch as a form of fire? That was a vestige of the Sumerian culture and religion that was part of the early Hebrew way of seeing the divine. Similarly, during the Captivity in Egypt the Hebrew culture adopted a number of things from the Egyptians: like the practice of stoning, they adopted their forms of poetry and wisdom literature (psalms, proverbs etc. is based on similar things the Egyptians did). Anyway, if paganism infects true religion and culture the Hebrews were infected 4 or 5 thousand years before the Christmas tree.


Point 4) Some Positive Preaching From aspects of the pagan heritage
Philippians 1:15-18New International Version (NIV)
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
It's interesting that saint Paul only cares about one thing, that Christ is preached! He doesn’t sweat the details or motivations. So based on that I will make a few points.

A) The Christmas tree has been a means of celebrating one of “the essential truths” of Christianity the Incarnation of Christ. The Christmas tree does not corrupt true religion but utilizes and engages contemporary culture for the message of the Gospel much like Paul preaching at Mars Hill in the book of Acts.


B) On the subject, of the pagan heritage It should be noted that the pagan heritage has given us a few good things. Without evangelism of the Germanic tribes their might not be any military chaplains. One of the conditions for evangelizing the Germanic tribes was they demanded clergy that would go into battle with them (to replace their priests of Odin and Thor that went with them into battle to have the favor of the gods). And from these we got the warrior priests of the crusades, that is the early ancestor of the modern military chaplain. Can anyone truly say that this is not a benefit? (Given how vulnerable young people are during peace time, let alone when fighting an actual war.)

Not to beat a dead horse
There are many other points that could be made and scriptures that could be quoted.
Overall I see the Crusade against the Christmas tree as a divisive issue that goes against the basic spirit of the original "Counsel of Jerusalem" in Acts 15, and flies in the face of much of the ministry of saint Paul.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

This video fits into what I was talking about in 2B) Concerning Hebrew Culture.

 

[HTacianas]

I'm posting half of a Blog entry I wrote 2 years ago. I knew someone in the Charismatic movement who was a crusader against Christmas, especially the Christmas tree. In my life, I've seen a lot of that sort of thing. Anyway this is the last half of that write up, that deals with some of the fallacies of that type of thinking etc.



Point 3) Inconsistencies and Myths about Culture
1) People who make these overly strict rules are usually not entirely consistent in their application of such principles (and thank God for that). What I’m saying is we have some aspects of the pagan heritage that are embedded deep in our society that are hard to escape from. A few examples: The Months of the Year come from Roman pagan society, while the names of the days of the week come directly from Norse pagan society. Do such people protest these bits of paganism by refusing to use such terminology? Another example is our money, it is no secret that many of the Founding Fathers were Masons and used the symbols taken from Egyptian paganism. Do such people refuse to use US dollar bills because “The All-Seeing Eye of Ra” is printed on one side? I suspect the answer in most cases would be “No”, since that would extremely inconvenient.


2) A) Besides this there are some myths about culture. Many Charismatics have almost a Gnostic conception of a pure “Spiritual” belief or practice that is free of culture. The first time I recognized this was reading a Ken Hagin book, “Plans, Purposes, and Pursuits” when he spoke about “worship in the Spirit”. He chastised people who did “Square Dancing” during the Church service (dancing in the Spirit), and said “that was fleshly”. He however approved of the “Pentecostal hop”, which I guess seems more visceral and therefore more spiritual. This sort of reasoning is nonsense. Almost everything we do is culture related. The Pentecostal hop is just a product of a special sub culture. It is not something that is purely spiritual. Maybe the first people who did it, reacted that way, but once others see others do it. You get into “monkey see, monkey do”. And yes, even if you are against “the teaching of men”, you do end up develop your own unique cultural tradition.


B) One thing should also be said of Hebrew Culture before ending the post. Because Hebrew culture is the culture of the Bible, and the Jews are “God’s Chosen people” many people see Hebrew culture as something that is pure and Holy, spiritual etc. To those kinds of notions, I have to remind people that every culture beyond The Garden of Eden comes from somewhere else! Before Abraham left UR of the Chaldees he resided in a pagan land and had the culture of that land. You can see that in the Old Testament itself. Why do you think God is always appearing in the Pentateuch as a form of fire? That was a vestige of the Sumerian culture and religion that was part of the early Hebrew way of seeing the divine. Similarly, during the Captivity in Egypt the Hebrew culture adopted a number of things from the Egyptians: like the practice of stoning, they adopted their forms of poetry and wisdom literature (psalms, proverbs etc. is based on similar things the Egyptians did). Anyway, if paganism infects true religion and culture the Hebrews were infected 4 or 5 thousand years before the Christmas tree.


Point 4) Some Positive Preaching From aspects of the pagan heritage
Philippians 1:15-18New International Version (NIV)
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
It's interesting that saint Paul only cares about one thing, that Christ is preached! He doesn’t sweat the details or motivations. So based on that I will make a few points.

A) The Christmas tree has been a means of celebrating one of “the essential truths” of Christianity the Incarnation of Christ. The Christmas tree does not corrupt true religion but utilizes and engages contemporary culture for the message of the Gospel much like Paul preaching at Mars Hill in the book of Acts.


B) On the subject, of the pagan heritage It should be noted that the pagan heritage has given us a few good things. Without evangelism of the Germanic tribes their might not be any military chaplains. One of the conditions for evangelizing the Germanic tribes was they demanded clergy that would go into battle with them (to replace their priests of Odin and Thor that went with them into battle to have the favor of the gods). And from these we got the warrior priests of the crusades, that is the early ancestor of the modern military chaplain. Can anyone truly say that this is not a benefit? (Given how vulnerable young people are during peace time, let alone when fighting an actual war.)

Not to beat a dead horse
There are many other points that could be made and scriptures that could be quoted.
Overall I see the Crusade against the Christmas tree as a divisive issue that goes against the basic spirit of the original "Counsel of Jerusalem" in Acts 15, and flies in the face of much of the ministry of saint Paul.

Square dancing bad. Hopping good. That's a good example.

There are all sorts of cultural traditions that have been adopted into Christianity. Most people who oppose them only oppose those traditions not their own. Most American protestants would be shocked to hear the liturgy of the Russian Church. Praying for Vladimir Putin??

 

[Hank77]

Square dancing bad. Hopping good. That's a good example.

?? A good example of what? Square dancing isn't part of any religious culture that I'm aware of.

There are all sorts of cultural traditions that have been adopted into Christianity. Most people who oppose them only oppose those traditions not their own. Most American protestants would be shocked to hear the liturgy of the Russian Church. Praying for Vladimir Putin??

Many American protestant churches prayer for the leaders of the US. Why wouldn't the Russian churches do the same? The Bible says to pray for them.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

?? A good example of what? Square dancing isn't part of any religious culture that I'm aware of.

Yes your right sort of. In a number of Charismatic and Pentecostal churches there is "dancing in the spirit". The part I quoted is when a couple tried to square dance as part of that.