Should we give expecting something in return?

[JimB]

Should we give expecting something in return?

Jesus told us,

Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”(Luke 6.38)
​

What I believe (i.e., my interpretation) is that Jesus is encouraging generosity, not greediness.

The reason I mention this is that I recently heard a prominent televangelist say that it was dumb for us to give without expecting something in return—what fool would do that? That view of giving did not set with me because the following scripture (which, incidentally, as it turns out, was just a few verses before the one above) came to mind:

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35).
​

Do these verses contradict each other? If not, how do you explain the difference messages between these two statements?

What do you think?

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

 

[JSGuitarist]

Christ wouldn't be appealing to greediness, no. He would rather you gave of a selfless heart. I probably have the televangelist in mind that you're talking about; a guy said that to him (not expecting anything), and he said "I wrote a song for you: How Dumb Thou Art."

I think there is a sense where we most definitely will receive back, and some may be in this life, though you might never touch some of it until you pass on to glory, and those are the treasures we are told to build up. Christ told us to lay up our treasures in heaven, and the Bible warns of the desire of riches being a snare. As for "expecting," I use that word cautiously because who am I to make a demand of God? He promised daily provision in Matthew 6, and I know He brings that, and I simply trust He will. If I need it, He'll bring it, no matter how much or little it is.

 

[KingZzub]

I always give with the expectation of getting.

But I always get with the expectation of giving, so it all balances.

How can you read Luke 6.38 and not realize there is some getting in there? In fact in a 40 word Scripture, one word talking about giving and 39 about getting.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[BenAdam]

Should we give expecting something in return?

Jesus told us,

Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”(Luke 6.38)
​

What I believe (i.e., my interpretation) is that Jesus is encouraging generosity, not greediness.

The reason I mention this is that I recently heard a prominent televangelist say that it was dumb for us to give without expecting something in return—what fool would do that? That view of giving did not set with me because the following scripture (which, incidentally, as it turns out, was just a few verses before the one above) came to mind:

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35).
​

Do these verses contradict each other? If not, how do you explain the difference messages between these two statements?

What do you think?

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

My take is that we can give with the expectation that God cares for us and takes care of us as appropriate to His will and our maturity.

 

[probinson]

I think it has to do with motive.

If I give to someone solely because I am expecting something in return from them, then I am doing precisely what Jesus told us not to do in Luke 6:35. In fact, I might even go so far as to say that's a form of manipulation.

But if I give to someone simply because I want to be a blessing to them, and as a result I expect that God will be faithful to His word, then I believe that is what Jesus is talking about in Luke 6:38.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I think there is an idea in the New Testament world that if you get, you can expect to be given in return. It was a matter of manners in their society. If you give something, the receiver is expected to give something comparable in return. If you give a gift to someone in the ancient Greco-Roman world, they would give you a gift back. If you gave someone an insult, you wouldn't be surprised if they gave you an insult back. It's a sort of system based on merits. You merit your "reward" based on what you do. Do good to others, good is returned. Do bad to others, bad is returned.

Jesus often seemed to talk about giving others what they didn't merit though. Jesus seemed to say things like, if someone insults you, don't insult back. Jesus advocated showing grace to people as God had shown grace to His people.

So, I think Jesus gave His followers some practical adivce on occassion. "Do to others as you want done to you." Basically, because a person should return to you in the same manner as what you gave to them.

The Greco-Roman world was based on a patron-client type of system. Let's say I'm in that world and I give you a loaf of bread. You would be indebted to me for a loaf of bread. I would have become your patron, and you my client until the debt was repaid. You could repay the debt by doing something in return like giving me a loaf of bread or doing a favor for me later on. That would have been expected. It would have been smart and practical to operate that way. What would not have been expected is for you to not return the favor or it would have been unexpected if I had forgiven your debt to me.

The military seems to operate sort of like this. If my buddy down the hall does me a favor, I sort of owe him a favor later on. I might preemptively do a favor for someone knowing they will be more likely to do me a favor down the road. If they didn't return the favor, that would sort of build themselves a reputation for being thoughtless and people would stop doing them favors. What would be surprising is if I kept doing him favors when he didn't do anything in return.

So, I don't really see anything wrong with operating based on merits. You do to others as you want them to do to you. And you do to others as they do to you. Likewise, the bible clearly teaches that we are to show grace too. So you do to others as they don't deserve. Of course, if you only show grace to everyone and never justice (give them what they merit), you become a pushover and a candy dispenser for favors. You would basically be seen as an impractical idiot and likely be taken advantage of, and this is why my buddy still owes me a lunch since I bought the other day .

 

[BenAdam]

I think there is an idea in the New Testament world that if you get, you can expect to be given in return. It was a matter of manners in their society. If you give something, the receiver is expected to give something comparable in return. If you give a gift to someone in the ancient Greco-Roman world, they would give you a gift back. If you gave someone an insult, you wouldn't be surprised if they gave you an insult back. It's a sort of system based on merits. You merit your "reward" based on what you do. Do good to others, good is returned. Do bad to others, bad is returned.

Jesus often seemed to talk about giving others what they didn't merit though. Jesus seemed to say things like, if someone insults you, don't insult back. Jesus advocated showing grace to people as God had shown grace to His people.

So, I think Jesus gave His followers some practical adivce on occassion. "Do to others as you want done to you." Basically, because a person should return to you in the same manner as what you gave to them.

The Greco-Roman world was based on a patron-client type of system. Let's say I'm in that world and I give you a loaf of bread. You would be indebted to me for a loaf of bread. I would have become your patron, and you my client until the debt was repaid. You could repay the debt by doing something in return like giving me a loaf of bread or doing a favor for me later on. That would have been expected. It would have been smart and practical to operate that way. What would not have been expected is for you to not return the favor or it would have been unexpected if I had forgiven your debt to me.

The military seems to operate sort of like this. If my buddy down the hall does me a favor, I sort of owe him a favor later on. I might preemptively do a favor for someone knowing they will be more likely to do me a favor down the road. If they didn't return the favor, that would sort of build themselves a reputation for being thoughtless and people would stop doing them favors. What would be surprising is if I kept doing him favors when he didn't do anything in return.

So, I don't really see anything wrong with operating based on merits. You do to others as you want them to do to you. And you do to others as they do to you. Likewise, the bible clearly teaches that we are to show grace too. So you do to others as they don't deserve. Of course, if you only show grace to everyone and never justice (give them what they merit), you become a pushover and a candy dispenser for favors. You would basically be seen as an impractical idiot and likely be taken advantage of, and this is why my buddy still owes me a lunch since I bought the other day .

Good thing the Kingdom isn't Greco-Roman

 

[razzelflabben]

Should we give expecting something in return?

Jesus told us,

Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”(Luke 6.38)
​

What I believe (i.e., my interpretation) is that Jesus is encouraging generosity, not greediness.

The reason I mention this is that I recently heard a prominent televangelist say that it was dumb for us to give without expecting something in return—what fool would do that? That view of giving did not set with me because the following scripture (which, incidentally, as it turns out, was just a few verses before the one above) came to mind:

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35).
​

Do these verses contradict each other? If not, how do you explain the difference messages between these two statements?

What do you think?

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

reminds me of the old saying, if you don't expect anything, you won't be disappointed....now let me clarify the thought just a bit. God's blessings are always worth it, always in abundance, but sometimes we allow our desires, our personal wants to cloud over the gifts God has for us. So if we give, expecting nothing in return then the blessing God gives will not be clouded by our desires, our wants. just a thought for what it's worth

 

[JimB]

I always give with the expectation of getting.

But I always get with the expectation of giving, so it all balances.

How can you read Luke 6.38 and not realize there is some getting in there? In fact in a 40 word Scripture, one word talking about giving and 39 about getting.

Blessings,
Ben

Does that mean we ignore Luke 6.35 that says we should give “not expecting anything in return.”

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

​

 

[Yekcidmij]

Good thing the Kingdom isn't Greco-Roman

Well, I think Jesus gave practical advice to His followers on occassion. They were to be wise. They were to show grace. They were to operate based on a merit system.

So, I do think that the Kingdom operates in a similiar fashion. We are to be both just and graceful. We are to give others what they deserve. Give a man what he has earned. But we also show grace. If someone insults me, I hold my tongue.

I think God has revealed that He operates much like this. He gives people either what they deserve or what they don't deserve. He doesn't always give everyone what they don't deserve nor does He always give everyone what they deserve. I think Romans 1-3 outlines a system of God's Grace and Justice. God has created mankind and indebted us to Him, so that He has become our Divine Patron. The proper response would have been to be loyal to Him. Unfortunately, all men failed and were loyal to their own gods of their own making. Man has literally insulted and attempted to overthrow the Creator God. So, God responds to man with either Justice or Grace. He either will give people what they have merited or He will show Grace and give us what is unmerited.

The Patron-Client system is comparable to how God seems to operate. Also comparable would be King-Subject, Father-Son, Suzerain-Vassal, Master-Servant, Shepherd-Sheep, etc..

 

[JimB]

I think it has to do with motive.

If I give to someone solely because I am expecting something in return from them, then I am doing precisely what Jesus told us not to do in Luke 6:35. In fact, I might even go so far as to say that's a form of manipulation.

But if I give to someone simply because I want to be a blessing to them, and as a result I expect that God will be faithful to His word, then I believe that is what Jesus is talking about in Luke 6:38.

Great.

Thanks, Pete.

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

​

 

[KingZzub]

Does that mean we ignore Luke 6.35 that says we should give “not expecting anything in return.”

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

No, it just means we should quote it ACCURATELY and IN CONTEXT.

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

The verse says that when you lend to your enemies (not give) you should expect nothing back. In other words, the people you lend to you should not give them grief or be disappointed if they take what you lend them and squander it and destroy it or break it, dependant on what you lend them.

But it then says: and your reward shall be great.

This is because of Luke 6.38: men shall give into your bosom.

If I gave a Christian or anyone £100 I shouldn't expect money back from them, I should expect it back pressed down and shaken together from other men. That way God is always my Source. We need to realize that there are many channels of blessing, but God is the only Source.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Should we give expecting something in return?

Jesus told us,

Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”(Luke 6.38)
​

What I believe (i.e., my interpretation) is that Jesus is encouraging generosity, not greediness.

The reason I mention this is that I recently heard a prominent televangelist say that it was dumb for us to give without expecting something in return—what fool would do that? That view of giving did not set with me because the following scripture (which, incidentally, as it turns out, was just a few verses before the one above) came to mind:

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35).
​

Do these verses contradict each other? If not, how do you explain the difference messages between these two statements?

What do you think?

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

• Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”(Luke 6.38) This verse I believe is saying when you see a need that you are able to meet then meet it with fullness. Don't expect that the one you are giving to will repay it or give you something back later on. God though, in seeing your heart and your generosity will be generous back.
  
• But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35). We are not to give to people expecting THEM to pay it back . Again, God see's and HIS reward to us will be great.

I don't see a contradiction. They both say that when we give to people we are not to expect the people to pay us back and/or reward us later on. However, it does promise that God will reward us and I believe we can expect Him to keep His promises.

 

[map4]

You're not necessarily being greedy when you expect God to do what He says. I say not necessarily greedy because, quite obviously, some are greedy and try to twist God's word to justify their greed.

If I believe God will meet my needs then I am not greedy when i expect the money for an unexpected expense or whatever the need might be.
If God tells you something, expect it.

Also, what about sowing and reaping? Some apply this to mainly money but I believe it relates to everything.
I think it goes hand in hand with doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If I want to reap corn, I'll sow corn.
If I want watermelon, I'll sow watermelon.
If I want to reap love from others, I'll sow love into someone's life.
If I want to be treated with respect, I'll treat others with respect.

So many things are reciprocal. If you do this, then this will happen.
I believe it can be the same with money. If I have a financial need, I can give to someone else expecting for the same to come back to me.
Not from them, but from whomever God places it on their heart to give to me.
I've had this happen too many times for me to believe it's not true (not just with money, but with everything).

I don't think, however, that receiving should be the motive for giving.
We can have the attitude that we'll give no matter if we receive anything in return.
But that doesn't nullify the fact of God's word that says, 'give and it will be given unto you...'
I know that sounds like double standard but I don't mean it that way.

Like everything else it goes back to the attitude of one's heart.
Giving with an attitude that you'll do it whether you get anything in return is an unselfish attitude. No greed there.
But, while doing that we can expect God to keep His promises to us.

I'm not advocating that you have to give to get, but I believe there is scripture to support being blessed in return for giving.
God is a giving God and I believe He wants us to be like Him in our giving.
Giving to others can also be an act of appreciation of what we have been given.

 

[Randya]

To make it short and sweet, "Yes you can expect, and should expect something in return. It's called life eternal and you are commanded to have faith in it. You really can't ask for much more.

 

[Svt4Him]

When I grow a garden, and plant a seed, I never expect anything in return. No, I really mean that, I'm not good at gardening.

 

[JimB]

When I grow a garden, and plant a seed, I never expect anything in return. No, I really mean that, I'm not good at gardening.

.

 

[JimB]

Is a gift truly a gift if we expect something in return for it—some special favor, some personal reward, some advantage, all of which denigrates a gift into something more like an investment than a gift, because it robs a gift of being a gift. If you give me a birthday gift expecting me to remember you with a gift of equal or more value on your birthday, or to grant you some special favor in the future, you are not giving me a gift at all, you are making an investment in my goodwill by putting me in debt to you, checkmating me, making a deal, forcing my hand for your own personal advantage. A gift cannot truly be a gift if it is “given” with strings attached.

IMO, A gift in the truest sense of the word is something given simply out of a desire to bless someone else, with no selfish interest attached whatever.

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Is a gift truly a gift if we expect something in return for it—some special favor, some personal reward, some advantage, all of which denigrates a gift into something more like an investment than a gift, because it robs a gift of being a gift. If you give me a birthday gift expecting me to remember you with a gift of equal or more value on your birthday, or to grant you some special favor in the future, you are not giving me a gift at all, you are making an investment in my goodwill by putting me in debt to you, checkmating me, making a deal, forcing my hand for your own personal advantage. A gift cannot truly be a gift if it is “given” with strings attached.

IMO, A gift in the truest sense of the word is something given simply out of a desire to bless someone else, with no selfish interest attached whatever.

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon​

I agree. How about from God though? Do you expect that due to your selflessness that as He has promised, He will reward you in some way? Do you think that He may or may not follow through with what He says?

 

[probinson]

I agree. How about from God though? Do you expect that due to your selflessness that as He has promised, He will reward you in some way? Do you think that He may or may not follow through with what He says?

According to this scripture, if we want to be pleasing to God, we must believe that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him;

Hebrews 11:6 (AMP)
But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. For whoever would come near to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He is the rewarder of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him [out].
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