Shaming

[DeeDee79]

Does God shame people who do bad to others? And how does he do it?

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Does God shame people who do bad to others? And how does he do it?

He offers forgiveness, through the sacrifice that his Son Jesus made...verse 17 is also relevant for you

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

 

[royal priest]

Does God shame people who do bad to others? And how does he do it?

Sometimes yes. More often than not, He allows people to become unable to feel shame. Romans 1:28
Shame is experienced through a guilt-ridden conscience. Romans 2:15
The degree to which someone feels shame depends on the degree of their conscience's sensitivity to the wrong committed (the more selfish we are, the less sensitive we tend to be to the wrong committed). Ephesians 4:18-19
The Bible describes such people as those who glory in their shame. Philippians 3:19

 

[DeeDee79]

Sometimes yes. More often than not, He allows people to become unable to feel shame. Romans 1:28
Shame is experienced through a guilt-ridden conscience. Romans 2:15
The degree to which someone feels shame depends on the degree of their conscience's sensitivity to the wrong committed (the more selfish we are, the less sensitive we tend to be to the wrong committed). Ephesians 4:18-19
The Bible describes such people as those who glory in their shame. Philippians 3:19

So what does that mean for people who do wrong to others...God just lets them continue to do it because they don't feel shame? Or does God step in and shame them in a way that God knows will get them to stop?

 

[royal priest]

So what does that mean for people who do wrong to others...God just lets them continue to do it because they don't feel shame?

It completely depends on God's purpose for that particular incident for that particular person. In the case of David's sin against Bathsheba and Urriah, God allowed David to harden his heart against repentant shame for months. We find later in Psalms 32:3, we learn that the time of David's indifference was actually spent in immense internal struggle. He was ashamed, but not enough to lead him to repentance until God "stepped in"...

Or does God step in and shame them in a way that God knows will get them to stop?

In the instance mentioned above, God had sent the prophet Nathan to convict David of his sin. It's interesting to note how that God went about it. You can read about it in 2 Samuel chapter 12

 

[DeeDee79]

It completely depends on God's purpose for that particular incident for that particular person. In the case of David's sin against Bathsheba and Urriah, God allowed David to harden his heart against repentant shame for months. We find later in Psalms 32:3, we learn that the time of David's indifference was actually spent in immense internal struggle. He was ashamed, but not enough to lead him to repentance until God "stepped in"...
In the instance mentioned above, God had sent the prophet Nathan to convict David of his sin. It's interesting to note how that God went about it. You can read about it in 2 Samuel chapter 12

So God DOES convict everyone of the sins they commit?

 

[bcbsr]

Does God shame people who do bad to others? And how does he do it?

There are multiple examples of Jesus criticizing people who do evil. I would suggest reading Matthew chapter 23 as an example.

 

[royal priest]

So God DOES convict everyone of the sins they commit?

No. Most people think that their sin is normal and, in many cases, think their sin is good and useful

 

[DeeDee79]

No. Most people think that their sin is normal and, in many cases, think their sin is good and useful

So if someone is continually sinning by bringing harm and harassment to someones life and they think it's normal....what does God do about a situation like that? Idly sit by and do nothing?

 

[royal priest]

So if someone is continually sinning by bringing harm and harassment to someones life and they think it's normal....what does God do about a situation like that? Idly sit by and do nothing?

It depends on God's intention for that harrassment.
Another instance to consider in the life of David:
A man named Shemei was hurling insults at David. One of David's men said, " let us go over there and cut off his head."
David's response is very instructive:
2 Samuel 16:11-12
"Let him alone, and let him curse; for so the Lord has ordered him. It may be that the Lord will look on my affliction, and that the Lord will repay me with good for his cursing this day.”

The Lord brings difficult situations to us so that we might learn from them, harrassment included. In fact, if you are being harrassed, then God's Word has much to say to you, in particular. For instance, 1 Peter 2:20-23,
"when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

“Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously"

 

[royal priest]

So if someone is continually sinning by bringing harm and harassment to someones life and they think it's normal....what does God do about a situation like that? Idly sit by and do nothing?

God is counting all the evil that each individual commits with an eye to repay them. For some, they suffer consequences in this life. But all men are heaping up God's wrath unto themselves for the Day when Jesus shall call the living and the dead to final judgement. Romans 2:5-6

 

[dreadnought]

Does God shame people who do bad to others? And how does he do it?

It depends on how you look at it. This is the Lord's creation, so you can hold him responsible for anything that happens. Still, I think that we shame ourselves when we do bad to others, because sooner or later, our deeds are made known.

 

[DeeDee79]

It depends on how you look at it. This is the Lord's creation, so you can hold him responsible for anything that happens. Still, I think that we shame ourselves when we do bad to others, because sooner or later, our deeds are made known.

People can be good at covering things up

 

[dreadnought]

People can be good at covering things up

Perhaps not as good as they think.

 

[DeeDee79]

Perhaps not as good as they think.

Then howcome 2 and a half years later still has not been caught?

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

You need a trustworthy definition of "shame" before you can answer that question.

"Shame" as I define it is this:

• The feeling and belief that a person has that they are
  • Unloved and unlovable
  • Unworthy and worthless
  • Unaccepted and unacceptable

It is never God's will that His children ever feel shame. Ever.

Does God convict of sin? Of course. Does that result in "godly sorrow"? Yes.

2 Corinthians 7:10-11 teaches about godly sorrow... and it leads to repentance and life.

The world's sorrow, by contrast, leads to death.

Shame is part of the world's sorrow... it is NOT God's.

• None of us are ever unloved by God.
• None of us are ever worthless to God.
• None of us are every unacceptable to God... if we are in Christ.

So, does God ever "shame" His children? Absolutely not.

Does He shame those who are not His children? I don't think so... God will not accept those who reject Christ, but it's not because they are unacceptable (we are ALL "unacceptable" without Christ!)... and even unbelievers are loved by Him and are valuable to Him.

Shame is always from the enemy. Shame is always destructive.

Shame is never God's will. Period.

 

[DeeDee79]

So God

You need a trustworthy definition of "shame" before you can answer that question.

"Shame" as I define it is this:

• The feeling and belief that a person has that they are
  • Unloved and unlovable
  • Unworthy and worthless
  • Unaccepted and unacceptable

It is never God's will that His children ever feel shame. Ever.

Does God convict of sin? Of course. Does that result in "godly sorrow"? Yes.

2 Corinthians 7:10-11 teaches about godly sorrow... and it leads to repentance and life.

The world's sorrow, by contrast, leads to death.

Shame is part of the world's sorrow... it is NOT God's.

• None of us are ever unloved by God.
• None of us are ever worthless to God.
• None of us are every unacceptable to God... if we are in Christ.

So, does God ever "shame" His children? Absolutely not.

Does He shame those who are not His children? I don't think so... God will not accept those who reject Christ, but it's not because they are unacceptable (we are ALL "unacceptable" without Christ!)... and even unbelievers are loved by Him and are valuable to Him.

Shame is always from the enemy. Shame is always destructive.

Shame is never God's will. Period.

So God lets the offender have the satisfaction of harming their target?

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

So God lets the offender have the satisfaction of harming their target?

Having reread the thread and the OP... I think I understand your question now.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

So God lets the offender have the satisfaction of harming their target?

As I said, Shame is never God's will for His children. Conviction and Repentance, yes... but never shame. Shame is cruel and destructive. Shame is built upon lies about who we are and what God's attitude is towards us.

But I think your real question is this... Does God always bring Conviction upon those who sin against others and do shameful things to them? Well, the answer to that question is no, He does not always convict sinners of sin. If a person's heart is hard, and/or if they have quenched the Spirit's work in their heart for too long, there can come of a time when God no longer reaches out to them. If they reach that tragic point, then it very well may seem like they can and will continue to repeat the same sin over and over again with no sense of guilt or remorse at all.

But there another question you should also ask... Does God always bring sinners to an accounting of their sin? And the answer to that is definitely "Yes." A related question is this, Is there harsher ultimate judgment for those whose sin is harming others? And the answer to that is also "Yes."

Some wrongfully teach "All sin is sin, so one sin is just as bad as another." This claim is false and has no foundation in Scripture. I can prove it false very easily. It is based entirely on the incorrect understanding of one scripture.

There's another question that may be in your heart... Does God know and care about the pain of those who are harmed by other people? Again, the answer is absolutely "Yes." The problem is that when someone is the victim and God doesn't intervene and stop it all, it can sure feel like He doesn't care. And that can be really hard to endure or continue to believe in His goodness or His concern.

If we then ask, Why doesn't God just stop all the people hurting other people? That's a question I can't answer. And it's not a question that we can demand an answer to. We feel the question profoundly, but it's not one that God has promised to answer... in the here and now. Through it all, however, we can still rest in the fact that God is good. And while we may not be able to see or understand the reasons why He does or does not act as we would like or even as we pray for, His goodness is undiminished.

I hope this helps.

David

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

One more point I'd like to make...

I can't tell you how many times I have to tell myself... "I can't fix other people."

The fact is that very often, in my interaction with other people, I observe their behavior and I can see very clearly that their behavior is bad and wrong. And... I find myself wanting to fix them.

The "fix" I have in mind is usually some way to "put them in their place," or to shame them for their attitude or their behavior... to somehow make them realize how awful/stupid/mean/wrong they are. To perhaps even make sure that other people see and know how awful/stupid/mean/wrong they are... in other words, to shame them openly and publicly.

But... shame is never God's will.

And if it's never God's will, should it ever be our will?

For my part, I have decided that I will never attempt to use shame on other people. To do so is to partner with our enemy...

And when I take "shaming" off the list of my options for response to someone else's actions, it frequently leaves me with nothing at all on my list of options. So I end up doing nothing. But that's not generally a bad thing. I've never regretted not shaming someone... but I've definitely regretted shaming...

So, if you are wishing "shame" on someone, I'd encourage you to rethink and reexamine your desires... Shame just isn't God's way to wholeness.