SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

[Adventist Heretic]

Here is a short list of some of the failed prophecys of EGW. SDA's please explain why you hold to her authority when she has clearly failed. What is the point. How is that not rebellion and disobediance to the Lord?

7 False Predictions from Ellen G. White - Seventh Day Adventist
False prophecy #1.
Jerusalem will never be built up again, Early Writings, p. 75 - EGW FAILED

Jereusalem will be trampled under foot until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Luke 21:24 -Jesus - Fulfilled

False prophecy #2
England will attack the United STATES during the civil war Ellen White, Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 259. - FAILED

False Prophecy #3
The Civil War is a sign the Jesus is about to Return Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 260 -FAILED

False Prophecy #4
Jesus would return in a few months (1850) Early Writings, p. 58 - FAILED

False Prophecy #5 Adventist alive in 1856 would be alive to see Jesus return. Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, pp. 131-132. - FAILED, they are all dead.

False Prophecy #6 Christ would return BEFORE Slavery was Abolished.Early Writings, pp 35 - FAILED Slavery was abolished in 1864.

False Prophecy #7 She saw Enoch on Jupiter or Saturn Early Writings, pp. 39-40- Failed. No one lives on Jupiter or Saturn.

Ellen G. White's Teachings Compared with the Bible - Predictions of Ellen G. White
More quotes and failed prophecies of EGW.

DEUTERONOMY 18:20-22
20But if any prophet dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or to speak in the name of other gods, that prophet must be put to death.”

21You may ask in your heart, “How can we recognize a message that the LORD has not spoken?” 22When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD and the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.



Ellen White
"God is either teaching His church, reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith, or He is not. This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work... bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God, or of the devil." (4T 230)

What do you have to say of this information and EGW authority now. Do you see why people have problems with EGW?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Ellen G. White's Teachings Compared with the Bible - Predictions of Ellen G. White

www.gospeloutreach.net

Predictions of Ellen G. White Mrs. White claimed that future events were revealed to her. "As the Spirit of God has opened to my mind the great truths of His word, and the scenes of the past and the future, I have been bidden to make known to others that which has thus been revealed ..." The Great Controversy, p. xi. Mrs. White made the following predictions during her ministry in the Seventh-day Adventist church. They must be tested and honestly faced in the light of God's Word. JERUSALEM'S FUTURE​ An interesting prophecy of Mrs. White's was that "Old Jerusalem never would be built up". In Early Writings p 75, she said, "Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes....I saw that Satan had greatly deceived some in this thing,.... I ALSO SAW THAT OLD JERUSALEM NEVER WOULD BE BUILT UP; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time" (emphasis added). This prophecy did not come true. Since the nation of Israel's rebirth in 1948, "old Jerusalem" has been greatly built up. MRS. WHITE ALIVE WHEN JESUS RETURNS​ Mrs. White predicted that she would be among "the living saints" when Jesus returned. "Soon our eyes were drawn to the east, for a small black cloud had appeared, about half as large as a man's hand, which we all knew was the sign of Son of man.... Then there was a mighty earthquake. The graves opened, and the dead came up clothed with immortality. The 144,000 shouted, "Alleluia!" as they recognized their friends who had been torn from them by death, and in the same moment WE WERE CHANGED AND CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM to meet the Lord in the air". Early Writings, pp 15-16 (emphasis added). ENGLAND WILL ATTACK THE UNITED STATES​ In 1862 she predicted that "when England does declare war [against the North, during the civil war]. all nations will have an interest of their own to serve, and there will be general war, general confusion." The result will be that "this nation [the United States] will...be humbled into the dust". Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 259. American history clearly shows that England did not "declare war" against the United States during the Civil War, and the United States was not "humbled into the dust". THE CIVIL WAR IS A SIGN THAT JESUS IS ABOUT TO RETURN​ "I saw greater distress in the land than we have yet witnessed. I heard groans and cries of distress, and saw large companies in active battle. I heard the booming of the cannon, the clash of arms, the hand-to-hand fight, and the groans and prayers of the dying....God's people must take warning and discern the signs of the times. The signs of Christ's coming are too plain to be doubted, and in view of these things everyone who professes the truth should be a living preacher....All heaven is astir. THE SCENES OF EARTH'S HISTORY ARE FAST CLOSING. We are amid the perils of the last days". Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 260 (emphasis added) IN THE 1850'S MRS. WHITE SAID JESUS WAS TO RETURN "IN A FEW MONTHS"​ "Some are looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. Time has continued a few years longer than they expected; therefore they think it may continue a few years more, and in this way their minds are being led from present truth, out after the world.... I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished and that TIME CAN LAST BUT A VERY LITTLE LONGER". Early Writings, p. 58 (emphasis added). "In a view given June 27, 1850, my accompanying angel said, "TIME IS ALMOST FINISHED....Said the angel, "Get ready, get ready, get ready...." I saw that there was a great work to do for them and but LITTLE TIME in which to do it....Then I saw that THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES WERE SOON TO BE POURED OUT upon those who have no shelter...." Early Writings, p 64 (emphasis added). Mrs. White continues to relate her vision and makes a startling prediction that only a few months are left before the Lord will return. "But NOW TIME IS ALMOST FINISHED and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a FEW MONTHS. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again." Early Writings, p 67 (emphasis added). ADVENTISTS LIVING IN 1856 WILL BE ALIVE TO SEE JESUS RETURN​ Over 135 years ago, Mrs. White made another fascinating prophecy during a meeting in Battle Creek, Michigan in May of 1856. She declared that some of those who were at the meeting would die, and become "food for worms," and that some of them would live on and become "subjects of the seven last plagues," while still others would "remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus". Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, pp. 131-132. CHRIST WOULD RETURN BEFORE SLAVERY WAS ABOLISHED​ "I saw the pious slave rise in triumph and victory and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God. Soon appeared the great white cloud ... On it sat the Son of man." Early Writings, pp 35 "I saw that the slave master will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited on the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God and the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied." Early Writings, pp 276 Slavery was not abolished for another 6 years after these statements, and the Lord hadn't yet returned. MRS. WHITE SAW ENOCH ON JUPITER OR SATURN​ "The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. THE GRASS OF THE PLACE WAS LIVING GREEN, AND THE BIRDS THERE WARBLED A SWEET SONG. THE INHABITANTS OF THE PLACE WERE OF ALL SIZES; THEY WERE NOBLE, MAJESTIC, AND LOVELY ... I asked on of them why they were so much more lovely than those on earth ... Then I WAS TAKEN TO A WORLD WHICH HAD SEVEN MOONS. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated". Early Writings, pp. 39-40 (emphasis added) Ellen's husband, James White verified her vision. He wrote, "At our conference in Topsham, Maine, last Nov., Ellen has a vision of the handy works of God. SHE WAS GUIDED TO THE PLANETS JUPITER, SATURN, AND I THINK ONE MORE. After she came out of vision, she could give a clear description of their Moons, etc. ... It is well known that she knew nothing of astronomy, and could not answer one question in relation to the planets, before she had this vision." A Word to the "Little Flock", p. 22 (emphasis added). Excellent satellite pictures of Jupiter and Saturn have not revealed any life forms. MRS. WHITE SAID THAT WE HAVE ANIMAL ORGANS IN OUR BRAINS AND THE WEARING OF WIGS WOULD CAUSE INSANITY​ Mrs. White said: "Fashion loads the heads of women with artificial braids and pads, which do not add to their beauty, but give an unnatural shape to the head. The hair is strained and forced into unnatural positions, and it is not possible for the heads of these fashionable ladies to be comfortable. The artificial hair and pads covering the base of the brain, heat and excite the spinal nerves centering in the brain. The head should ever be kept cool. The heat caused by these artificials induces the blood to the brain. The action of the blood upon the lower or animal organs of the brain, causes unnatural activity, tends to recklessness in morals, and the mind and heart is in danger of being corrupted. As the animal organs are excited and strengthened, the moral are enfeebled. The moral and intellectual powers of the mind become servants to the animal. In consequence of the brain being congested its nerves lose their healthy action, and take on morbid conditions, making it almost impossible to arouse the moral sensibilities. Such lose their power to discern sacred things. The unnatural heat caused by these artificial deformities about the head, induces the blood to the brain, producing congestion, and causing the natural hair to fall off, producing baldness. Thus the natural is sacrificed to the artificial. "Many have lost their reason, and become hopelessly insane, by following this deforming fashion. Yet the slaves to fashion will continue to thus dress their heads, and suffer horrible disease and premature death, rather than be out of fashion." - The Health Reformer, October 1, 1871 - Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, October 17, 1871 A SCRIPTURAL WARNING "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? WHEN A PROPHET SPEAKETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, IF THE THING FOLLOW NOT, NOR COME TO PASS, THAT IS THE THING WHICH THE LORD HATH NOT SPOKEN, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22 (emphasis added)

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a short list of some of the failed prophecys of EGW. SDA's please explain why you hold to her authority when she has clearly failed. What is the point. How is that not rebellion and disobediance to the Lord?

7 False Predictions from Ellen G. White - Seventh Day Adventist
False prophecy #1.
Jerusalem will never be built up again, Early Writings, p. 75 - EGW FAILED

Jereusalem will be trampled under foot until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Luke 21:24 -Jesus - Fulfilled

False prophecy #2
England will attack the United STATES during the civil war Ellen White, Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 259. - FAILED

False Prophecy #3
The Civil War is a sign the Jesus is about to Return Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 260 -FAILED

False Prophecy #4
Jesus would return in a few months (1850) Early Writings, p. 58 - FAILED

False Prophecy #5 Adventist alive in 1856 would be alive to see Jesus return. Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, pp. 131-132. - FAILED, they are all dead.

FAILED Accusation #3 - The Civil War is a sign the Jesus is about to Return Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 260

EVERY calamity by land or by sea was taught as a sign that Christ's coming is near and we continue to give that same warning today... and we all know it.

REv 22:
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

FAILED accusation #4 -- Jesus would return in a few months (1850) Early Writings, p. 58 -
(No such Jesus will return in a few months) statement in that reference - and all of us who read it - know it.

" Some are looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. Time has continued a few years longer than they expected; therefore they think it may continue a few years more, and in this way their minds are being led from present truth, out after the world. In these things I saw great danger; for if the mind is filled with other things, present truth is shut out, and there is no place in our foreheads for the seal of the living God. I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished and that time can last but a very little longer. What leisure time we have should be spent in searching the Bible, which is to judge us in the last day." EW 58.1​

REv 22:
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

FAILED accusation #2 - "england will attack the United States'

"Said the angel: “Hear, O heavens, the cry of the oppressed, and reward the oppressors double according to their deeds.” This nation will yet be humbled into the dust. England is studying whether it is best to take advantage of the present weak condition of our nation, and venture to make war upon her. She is weighing the matter, and trying to sound other nations. She fears, if she should commence war abroad, that she would be weak at home, and that other nations would take advantage of her weakness. Other nations are making quiet yet active preparations for war, and are hoping that England will make war with our nation, for then they would improve the opportunity to be revenged on her for the advantage she has taken of them in the past and the injustice done them. A portion of the queen's subjects are waiting a favorable opportunity to break their yoke; but if England thinks it will pay, she will not hesitate a moment to improve her opportunities to exercise her power and humble our nation. ..."1T 259.1​

False Prophecy #6 Christ would return BEFORE Slavery was Abolished.Early Writings, pp 35 - FAILED Slavery was abolished in 1864.

False Prophecy #7 She saw Enoch on Jupiter or Saturn Early Writings, pp. 39-40- Failed. No one lives on Jupiter or Saturn.

step one - provide an actual quote in context - rather than a string of false accusations. This should be very easy to do if you actually have a case, a point , a fact.

For example.. your last to false accusations are totally bogus - they work best if you provide no quote and no context. So I suppose I have to applaud you for giving those accusations their best chance of being regarded as fact.

FAILED accusation #7 -- you have no quote at all from Ellen White saying she was shown "Jupiter" or "Saturn" in a vision much less that she was shown people "living on Jupiter or Saturn" .. simple fact and it is irrefutable. She did claim to have been shown some planet in the Universe that had moons and that had people on it - but never said what planet it was (likely because humans had no name for whatever galaxy/solar system/ planet it was)

FAILED accusation #6 --WE both know that her statement about the "pious slave" that shakes of their chains at the appearing of Jesus never claims that the slave was in America - only that that a slave would exist on earth at the time of the 7th plague and the appearing of Christ. We also know that this statement was published in the 1880's in Early Writings and in 1947 in "Story of Redemption" -- yet no SDA was saying in 1880's or in 1940's that Christ came in 1880 or in 1947 because they don't need that kind of teaching to say that someone on planet Earth is a slave during the time of the 7 plagues of Rev 16 and Christ's appearing during the 7th plague.

 

[BobRyan]

ADVENTISTS LIVING IN 1856 WILL BE ALIVE TO SEE JESUS RETURNOver 135 years ago, Mrs. White made another fascinating prophecy during a meeting in Battle Creek, Michigan in May of 1856. She declared that some of those who were at the meeting would die, and become "food for worms," and that some of them would live on and become "subjects of the seven last plagues," while still others would "remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus". Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, pp. 131-132.

Jonah said Nineveh would be wiped out in 40 days.

Jeremiah 18 teaches the doctrine of "conditional prophecy" like this

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.​

Some would call this "grade school basics" but others are kind of foggy on the principle. Each one has free will and can choose as they wish.

Adventist Heretic said:
There are conditonal prophecy's, but how do you tell between a failed prophecy and a conditional prophecy? how am I supposed to tell?

That speaks volumes -- without knowing the answer to that - you post false accusations "anyway"?

======================

Since the poll for this thread asks about the specific posts addressing the OP accusations against Ellen White -

the Poll asks:

"1. Do you think that the response to the original post has debunked the or objections to EGW "​

Here are an example of a few that do that.


============================================
Exposing failed accusation #1 debunked in post: #56 #53
Exposing failed accusation #2 debunked in post: #3
Exposing failed accusation #3 debunked in post: #3
Exposing failed accusation #4 debunked in post: #3
Exposing failed accusation #5 debunked in post: #5 #55
Exposing failed accusation #6 debunked in post: #3 #16 #15
Exposing failed accusation #7 debunked in post:#3 #16 #15
Exposing failed accusation #8 debunked in post: #3 #40 – is same as accusation #5 but with more detail
Exposing failed accusation #9 debunked in post: #61 #58

========================================

As we all know -- that kind of discussion is not meant to convince someone that Ellen White is a prophet -- it is merely to see whether a given set of complaints is merely fluff-hay-straw-stubble or if they are substantive.

======================================
for the reader: Those opposing the OP false accusations are not saying that merely debunking those claims is proof that Ellen White is a prophet - rather it merely shows that the accusations are not substantive.

The second point to remember is that actual SDAs do not argue our doctrine from Ellen White to determine if our 28 Fundamental beliefs are right or not. Nor do we lead with Ellen White as our outreach to non-SDAs on the subject of Bible doctrine. We argue that everyone is to use sola scriptura testing in each and every case. If the sola scriptura test indicates failure then we say the end result should be "fail" not "pass".

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Jonah said Nineveh would be wiped out in 40 days.

Jeremiah 18 teaches the doctrine of "conditional prophecy" like this

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.​

Some would call this "grade school basics" but others are kind of foggy on the principle. Each one has free will and can choose as they wish.

There are conditonal prophecy's, but how do you tell between a failed prophecy and a conditional prophecy? how am I supposed to tell? there has to be a rule. Any one can claim a failed prophecy is conditional. I see this all the time. If you can't come up with an expination then we HAVE TO assume it failed espically if no conditions are given.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

"This" is the kind of thread you get from some people when you ask them to make a sola scriptura case against something Ellen White said/taught.

Not that surprising actually.

putting in a lot of effort to avoid dealing with EGW failed prediction.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

BACK STORY: This thread is a contunation of a thread in a group chat I had, were other member refused to discuss EGW failed prediction after agreeing to talk about EGW's failed predictions. They have spent the last 3 day making an effort to sabbatoge this discussion. There is an old saying "Thou doth protest too much" scared???

 

[pasifika]

One failed prophecy by anyone is a clear red flag. It's clearly Not from God. God is the author of prophetic gift and prophecies are events God is in control over it and it will All be fulfilled as God predicted. Watch out and don't be deceive!

 

[Adventist Heretic]

FAILED Accusation #3 - The Civil War is a sign the Jesus is about to Return Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 260

EVERY calamity by land or by sea was taught as a sign that Christ's coming is near and we continue to give that same warning today... and we all know it.

THE CIVIL WAR IS A SIGN THAT JESUS IS ABOUT TO RETURN​

"I saw greater distress in the land than we have yet witnessed. I heard groans and cries of distress, and saw large companies in active battle. I heard the booming of the cannon, the clash of arms, the hand-to-hand fight, and the groans and prayers of the dying....God's people must take warning and discern the signs of the times. The signs of Christ's coming are too plain to be doubted, and in view of these things everyone who professes the truth should be a living preacher....All heaven is astir. THE SCENES OF EARTH'S HISTORY ARE FAST CLOSING. We are amid the perils of the last days".
Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 260

This is in keeping with the mind set of the Advent movement and the Shut Door. They saw every disaster, every war as a sign of Christ coming. Which it is not. EGW made prediction that anyone could make. I could make them. that is not proof she is a prophet. it is proof she is not.

REv 22:
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

FAILED accusation #4 -- Jesus would return in a few months (1850) Early Writings, p. 58 -
(No such Jesus will return in a few months) statement in that reference - and all of us who read it - know it.

" Some are looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. Time has continued a few years longer than they expected; therefore they think it may continue a few years more, and in this way their minds are being led from present truth, out after the world. In these things I saw great danger; for if the mind is filled with other things, present truth is shut out, and there is no place in our foreheads for the seal of the living God. I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished and that time can last but a very little longer. What leisure time we have should be spent in searching the Bible, which is to judge us in the last day." EW 58.1​

the context of this quote is the Last Day's of the shut door movement. They believed that world had been lost after oct 22 1844 and that they had a special message for the other Millerites before Christ was to return. They were expecting a large group of people to join them at the last minute. They would renounce the shut door only a few months later after their last prediction failed. And take message to the world after being joined by people who were never Millerites.

REv 22:
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

that is after the final event of revelation and dose not apple here

FAILED accusation #2 - "england will attack the United States'

"Said the angel: “Hear, O heavens, the cry of the oppressed, and reward the oppressors double according to their deeds.” This nation will yet be humbled into the dust. England is studying whether it is best to take advantage of the present weak condition of our nation, and venture to make war upon her. She is weighing the matter, and trying to sound other nations. She fears, if she should commence war abroad, that she would be weak at home, and that other nations would take advantage of her weakness. Other nations are making quiet yet active preparations for war, and are hoping that England will make war with our nation, for then they would improve the opportunity to be revenged on her for the advantage she has taken of them in the past and the injustice done them. A portion of the queen's subjects are waiting a favorable opportunity to break their yoke; but if England thinks it will pay, she will not hesitate a moment to improve her opportunities to exercise her power and humble our nation. ..."1T 259.1​

step one - provide an actual quote in context - rather than a string of false accusations. This should be very easy to do if you actually have a case, a point , a fact.

For example.. your last to false accusations are totally bogus - they work best if you provide no quote and no context. So I suppose I have to applaud you for giving those accusations their best chance of being regarded as fact.

Said the angel: “Hear, O heavens, the cry of the oppressed, and reward the oppressors double according to their deeds.” This nation will yet be humbled into the dust. England is studying whether it is best to take advantage of the present weak condition of our nation, and venture to make war upon her. She is weighing the matter, and trying to sound other nations. She fears, if she should commence war abroad, that she would be weak at home, and that other nations would take advantage of her weakness. Other nations are making quiet yet active preparations for war, and are hoping that England will make war with our nation, for then they would improve the opportunity to be revenged on her for the advantage she has taken of them in the past and the injustice done them. A portion of the queen’s subjects are waiting a favorable opportunity to break their yoke; but if England thinks it will pay, she will not hesitate a moment to improve her opportunities to exercise her power and humble our nation. When England does declare war, all nations will have an interest of their own to serve, and there will be general war, general confusion. England is acquainted with the diversity of feeling among those who are seeking to quell the rebellion. She well knows the perplexed condition of our Government; she has looked with astonishment at the prosecution of this war—the slow, inefficient moves, the inactivity of our armies, and the ruinous expenses of our nation. The weakness of our Government is fully open before other nations, and they now conclude that it is because it was not a monarchial government, and they admire their own government, and look down, some with pity, others with contempt, upon our nation, which they have regarded as the most powerful upon the globe. Had our nation remained united it would have had strength, but divided it must fall.

notice:
1. she say the angel says this.
2. She is claiming to have political insight into other government that Governments wished they had England and other government and Englands subject. It would be almost 100 years later before the British Empire would crumble.
3. "if England thinks it will pay" is conditional but the context say that they are going to attack, "When they attack....." nothing in that statment require her to be a prophet or a divine speculation. She is making polotical specualtion and passing it off as from God. I can do that. of course it is going to fail.
4. she says it divide and it MUST FALL, that did not happen

FAILED accusation #7 -- you have no quote at all from Ellen White saying she was shown "Jupiter" or "Saturn" in a vision much less that she was shown people "living on Jupiter or Saturn" .. simple fact and it is irrefutable. She did claim to have been shown some planet in the Universe that had moons and that had people on it - but never said what planet it was (likely because humans had no name for whatever galaxy/solar system/ planet it was)

here is the exact quote and the exact source, since you intentionally ignored the second post. I hope people will see the lengths you will go to deny the evidence and wish away the failuers.

MRS. WHITE SAW ENOCH ON JUPITER OR SATURN​

"The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. THE GRASS OF THE PLACE WAS LIVING GREEN, AND THE BIRDS THERE WARBLED A SWEET SONG. THE INHABITANTS OF THE PLACE WERE OF ALL SIZES; THEY WERE NOBLE, MAJESTIC, AND LOVELY ... I asked on of them why they were so much more lovely than those on earth ... Then I WAS TAKEN TO A WORLD WHICH HAD SEVEN MOONS. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated".
Early Writings, pp. 39-40 (emphasis added)
Ellen's husband, James White verified her vision. He wrote, "At our conference in Topsham, Maine, last Nov., Ellen has a vision of the handy works of God. SHE WAS GUIDED TO THE PLANETS JUPITER, SATURN, AND I THINK ONE MORE. After she came out of vision, she could give a clear description of their Moons, etc. ... It is well known that she knew nothing of astronomy, and could not answer one question in relation to the planets, before she had this vision." A Word to the "Little Flock", p. 22 (emphasis added).

FAILED accusation #6 --WE both know that her statement about the "pious slave" that shakes of their chains at the appearing of Jesus never claims that the slave was in America - only that that a slave would exist on earth at the time of the 7th plague and the appearing of Christ.

Is that the best you got.

We also know that this statement was published in the 1880's in Early Writings and in 1947 in "Story of Redemption" -- yet no SDA was saying in 1880's or in 1940's that Christ came in 1880 or in 1947 because they don't need that kind of teaching to say that someone on planet Earth is a slave during the time of the 7 plagues of Rev 16 and Christ's appearing during the 7th plague.

Early writings pp. 35, 276. is not Revelation. she was talking about slavery in her day. not at the end of day, unless you want to count the she thought she was in the last day 175 yeas ago. That is a lot of mental gymnastics you have to make to justify her failuers.

I am glad you are posting so that everyone can see just how hard a person has to try to rationalize keeping EGW as a prophet.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

One failed prophecy by anyone is a clear red flag. It's clearly Not from God. God is the author of prophetic gift and prophecies are events God is in control over it and it will All be fulfilled as God predicted. Watch out and don't be deceive!

yes and multipul times is clear proof, a person is not a prophet, but the diehards will cling to anything. Why? I used to believe in her no I don't it did not take a lot of effort to say hey this is the prediction, this is the result. it failed. ok, move on. i thought it was one way, now I don't. I was wrong get over it and move. my life is much better without her.

 

[pasifika]

yes and multipul times is clear proof, a person is not a prophet, but the diehards will cling to anything. Why? I used to believe in her no I don't it did not take a lot of effort to say hey this is the prediction, this is the result. it failed. ok, move on. i thought it was one way, now I don't. I was wrong get over it and move. my life is much better without her.

The reason is, One word..."PRIDE".

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Here is a short list of some of the failed prophecys of EGW. SDA's please explain why you hold to her authority when she has clearly failed. What is the point. How is that not rebellion and disobediance to the Lord?

You're treading a dangerous road here; EGW is a failed prophetess in much the same way that Ezekiel is a failed prophet because he prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would raise to the ground Tyre, that men would dry their fishing nets on the rocks where her foundations once stood. But Nebuchadnezzar did no such thing, nor did Alexander the great, 300 years later, nor has anyone to this day since Tyre's foundations are still visible today and the 'island' which once was her stronghold is still occupied today, despite Ezekiel's prophecy that it would never be occupied again.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/3a/08/493a08e6b6bc01962b0d951c30b262b0.jpg

 

[BobRyan]

BACK STORY: This thread is a contunation of a thread in a group chat I had, were other member refused to discuss EGW failed prediction

false - again.

what happened in real life is that you insisted that we watch "your videos" and then have us "debate your video" instead of having you watch your own video and then bring what you felt was the most compelling case to the PM thread.

When we pointed out that it is your job to watch your own videos not ours - and it is your job to present your own case for discussion, with facts not merely half-truth and failed accusations, you decided to come here. I notice that you are not trying that "debate my video" tactic here. So if this is the place where you will pursue a more logical process then , we take what we can get.

details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

You're treading a dangerous road here; EGW is a failed prophetess

This point was made with AH - that leading out with Ellen White is a failed strategy -- he should be leading with sola-scriptura cases.

Even in his complaint list - there is very little sola-scriptura testing of doctrine. -- sadly

 

[BobRyan]

FAILED accusation

MRS. WHITE SAW ENOCH ON JUPITER OR SATURN

Debunking the failed accusation.

NOTHING in Ellen White's statement even mentions Jupiter or Saturn!!
(Details matter as it turns out -- else -- failed accusation, false accusation)

What she did is mention "a planet" somewhere in the universe that had moons and beings living on it.
Very different from claiming it was "Jupiter or Saturn"

"The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. THE GRASS OF THE PLACE WAS LIVING GREEN, AND THE BIRDS THERE WARBLED A SWEET SONG. THE INHABITANTS OF THE PLACE WERE OF ALL SIZES; THEY WERE NOBLE, MAJESTIC, AND LOVELY ... I asked on of them why they were so much more lovely than those on earth ... Then I WAS TAKEN TO A WORLD WHICH HAD SEVEN MOONS. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated".
Early Writings, pp. 39-40 (emphasis added)

A great example of NOT saying anything about Jupiter or Saturn... obviously

Thanks for helping us debunk your own failed accusation.

Is that the best you got.

Actually you handed to me - thanks for the gift.

Early writings pp. 35, 276. is not Revelation. she was talking about slavery in her day.

276 says nothing about who will still be alive or still be a slave at the second coming or that a slave will be freed at the 2nd coming. It merely says that slavery had existed in her day and slave masters would be held accountable

I saw that the slave master [See Appendix.] will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied. EW 276.1​

it is the future judgment of the slave master - and is not limited to American slave masters or even the 19th century as if all other slave masters would not also be held accountable.

Obviously.


details matter.

================== so to give AH a little help -- for slavery at the second coming (which is your failed argument)

we have this

Deliverance of the Saints​

EW 285

It was at midnight that God chose to deliver His people. As the wicked were mocking around them, suddenly the sun appeared, shining in his strength, and the moon stood still. The wicked looked upon the scene with amazement, while the saints beheld with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Signs and wonders followed in quick succession. Everything seemed turned out of its natural course. The streams ceased to flow. Dark, heavy clouds came up and clashed against each other. But there was one clear place of settled glory, whence came the voice of God like many waters, shaking the heavens and the earth. There was a mighty earthquake. The graves were opened, and those who had died in faith under the third angel's message, keeping the Sabbath, came forth from their dusty beds, glorified, to hear the covenant of peace that God was to make with those who had kept His law.
EW 285.1

The sky opened and shut and was in commotion. The mountains shook like a reed in the wind and cast out ragged rocks all around. The sea boiled like a pot and cast out stones upon the land. And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus’ coming and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people, He spoke one sentence, and then paused, while the words were rolling through the earth. The Israel of God stood with their eyes fixed upward, listening to the words as they came from the mouth of Jehovah and rolled through the earth like peals of loudest thunder. It was awfully solemn. At the end of every sentence the saints shouted, “Glory! Hallelujah!” Their countenances were lighted up with the glory of God, and they shone with glory as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked could not look upon them for the glory. And when the never-ending blessing was pronounced on those who had honored God in keeping His Sabbath holy, there was a mighty shout of victory over the beast and over his image.
EW 285.2

Then commenced the jubilee, when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in victory and triumph, and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God.
EW 286.1

Soon appeared the great white cloud, upon which sat the Son of man. When it first appeared in the distance, this cloud looked very small. The angel said that it was the sign of the Son of man. As it drew nearer the earth, we could behold the excellent glory and majesty of Jesus as He rode forth to conquer. A retinue of holy angels, with bright, glittering crowns upon their heads, escorted Him on His way. No language can describe the glory of the scene. The living cloud of majesty and unsurpassed glory came still nearer, and we could clearly behold the lovely person of Jesus. He did not wear a crown of thorns, but a crown of glory rested upon His holy brow. Upon His vesture and thigh was a name written, King of kings, and Lord of lords. His countenance was as bright as the noonday sun, His eyes were as a flame of fire, and His feet had the appearance of fine brass. His voice sounded like many musical instruments. The earth trembled before Him, the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” Those who a short time before would have destroyed God's faithful children from the earth, now witnessed the glory of God which rested upon them. And amid all their terror they heard the voices of the saints in joyful strains, saying, “Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us.”
EW 286.2

The earth mightily shook as the voice of the Son of God called forth the sleeping saints. They responded to the call and came forth clothed with glorious immortality, crying, “Victory, victory, over death and the grave! O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” Then the living saints and the risen ones raised their voices in a long, transporting shout of victory. Those bodies that had gone down into the grave bearing the marks of disease and death came up in immortal health and vigor. The living saints are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and caught up with the risen ones, and together they meet their Lord in the air. Oh, what a glorious meeting! Friends whom death had separated were united, never more to part.
EW 287.1

On each side of the cloudy chariot were wings, and beneath it were living wheels; and as the chariot rolled upward, the wheels cried, “Holy,” and the wings, as they moved, cried, “Holy,” and the retinue of holy angels around the cloud cried, “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty!” And the saints in the cloud cried, “Glory! Alleluia!” And the chariot rolled upward to the Holy City. Before entering the city, the saints were arranged in a perfect square, with Jesus in the midst. He stood head and shoulders above the saints and above the angels. His majestic form and lovely countenance could be seen by all in the square.
EW 287.2

=====================
That statement above does show someone some place on Earth is a slave in the still-future second coming but does not say it is slavery in America still being in place at that future time. -- Obviously

This was also published again as slate as 1947 - and was never positioned as America returning to slavery. Just that it would exist some place on Earth at that future event.

 

[BobRyan]

I am glad you are posting so that everyone can see just how hard a person has to try to rationalize keeping EGW as a prophet.

I don't mind providing quotes where you post none and then showing how incredibly obvious it is that your failed accusation could not hold up to actual details. (details matter as it turns out)

I am glad to do it - and I am glad that you seem to be happy with it as well. This is a win-win in that regard.

 

[BobRyan]

What's all Of this about? Do you really think your words will change their minds?

details matter.

The person that wants an "all Ellen White all the time" discussion and a string of accusations -- must at least have accurate details to be compelling. If providing the actual quotes debunks the accusation then the affirmative remains.

But more to the point - having a sola-scriptura position means actually knowing a thing or two about scripture and paying attention to the details we find in it as well as in the case one is making accusations about.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

The reason is, One word..."PRIDE".

You will see that very manifest in the posting of the Ellen White're

 

[Adventist Heretic]

What's all Of this about? Do you really think your words will change their minds? It's in bread. Say something new instead of the same old arguments. Like prayer for their soul's. Since God speaks against false prophets their very souls are at risk.

I once believed in her so I know that people can change their mind. So that is possible. This is also about exposing people who are not believers prophecies to the likes of these people will stoop to deceive and defend this person no matter what. If the SDA Church could get rid of her that they can make some adjustments and they could probably grow exponentially.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

details matter.

The person that wants an "all Ellen White all the time" discussion and a string of accusations -- must at least have accurate details to be compelling. If providing the actual quotes debunks the accusation then the affirmative remains.

But more to the point - having a sola-scriptura position means actually knowing a thing or two about scripture and paying attention to the details we find in it as well as in the case one is making accusations about.

you don't believe in Sola scriptura, you believe in Sola scriptura + EGW. You actually believe in EGW + Sola scriptura. Because you consult her to interpret scripture. You can't defend your position without consulting egw.

Now as to the accusation, of having to have a discussion about EG white all the time. This is just false. This is shifting the blame and the responsibility. EG whites claim an additional source of authority but don't tell people that. when we catch them consulting that authority over the Bible they scream that we want to talk about her all the time. That is dishonest. They will get called on that every time. They don't want to play fair Bob, they want a free pass. That is not going to happen. They will play by the same rules as everybody else. And that is that or they will be called on it.

As far as wanting to talk about EG White. I have made it a purpose not to talk about her unless it's brought up or it someone is affecting the text with her. Since EG White'ers bring her up all the time, it may appear to you that l talk to about her all the time. But I don't, it's only when they bring her up.

Except for this weekend, This is the first time I have Actually posted on Ellen White in over a decade. ,