Reformed Eschatology

[JM]

Well, I’ve read a fair bit on end times prophecy and have my own views on the matter, I’m interested in finding the classic view held by the early Reformers and then the differing views and the history of there development.

On a personal note, the Reformed Church members I speak with tend to be Amil and the Presbyterians tend to be postmil...are there many premi?l (for the sake of ease, premil should only be in ref to historic premil and we’ll leave out dispensationalism altogether)

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Well, I’ve read a fair bit on end times prophecy and have my own views on the matter, I’m interested in finding the classic view held by the early Reformers and then the differing views and the history of there development.

On a personal note, the Reformed Church members I speak with tend to be Amil and the Presbyterians tend to be postmil...are there many premi?l (for the sake of ease, premil should only be in ref to historic premil and we’ll leave out dispensationalism altogether)

Amill: is the majority Reformed position on Eschatology.

Post mill: has always had a pretty good number of Reformed folk hold that position. It was very big among the Puritans and the American Reformed Christians until the late 1800's. It lost a lot of ground in the late 19th and 20th centuries, but has recovered a lot of that ground after middle of the last century.

Premill: There are Reformed (historic) premills but their numbers have always been pretty small.

The fourth option "Dispensational premill" is not an option, because it is based on different theology and is not Reformed. One can not be Dispensational and Reformed.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

My pastor has been teaching historic premil/posttrib. I do retain the right to proclaim my panmil assertion, however.

 

[OWEN7]

My pastor has been teaching historic premil/posttrib. I do retain the right to proclaim my panmil assertion, however.

my pastor is gonna teach premill, pre-trib (I say gonna because he's going to be doing a series on Revelation sometime near the end of the year)


love your avatar btw! and the avatar title!

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Muchas Gracias!

 

[Antman_05]

Amil i like it.

 

[ClementofRome]

Can one be "Preterist" and "Reformed?" I know that RC Sproul calls himself a "partial preterist" and I love his book, "The Last Days According to Jesus." However, what if one took things to the ultimate conclusion .... can full preterism possibly be compatible with "reformed theology?"

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Amill: is the majority Reformed position on Eschatology.

Post mill: has always had a pretty good number of Reformed folk hold that position. It was very big among the Puritans and the American Reformed Christians until the late 1800's. It lost a lot of ground in the late 19th and 20th centuries, but has recovered a lot of that ground after middle of the last century.

Premill: There are Reformed (historic) premills but their numbers have always been pretty small.

The fourth option "Dispensational premill" is not an option, because it is based on different theology and is not Reformed. One can not be Dispensational and Reformed.

In Christ,
Kenith

that is a theological opinion (however correct it is)
a large number of people describe themselves as Reformed or Presbyterian and dispensationalist. perhaps it reached a peak about 1940, as a historical perspective.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

that is a theological opinion (however correct it is)
a large number of people describe themselves as Reformed or Presbyterian and dispensationalist. perhaps it reached a peak about 1940, as a historical perspective.

There are and were Presbyterians (denominationally speaking) who are dispensational. That is true, but they were not Reformed. Their theology contradicts most all historic Reformed Creeds and certainly every Reformed/Presbyterian confession and catechism that touched on the Church and Israel.

So, while I grant Presbyterian denominational affiliation to men like Scofield and Chafer, et al, I certainly deny the term Reformed (theologically speaking) can be applied to them.

On this matter, I assume we agree.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Can one be "Preterist" and "Reformed?" I know that RC Sproul calls himself a "partial preterist" and I love his book, "The Last Days According to Jesus." However, what if one took things to the ultimate conclusion .... can full preterism possibly be compatible with "reformed theology?"

Full preterism is way outside of orthodoxy and can not be considered Reformed. Full preterism, like dispensationalism is heterodox and best and perhaps worse.

I lean itoward the partial preterist position as well.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[Imblessed]

can one be partial preterist and historic pre-mill?

that's where I'm seeing myself right now.

I just really feel that the destruction of Jeruselum was VERY important on the grand scheme of things--if only to truly usher in the new covenant by completely destroying the temple so that the unbelieving Isrealites couldn't keep doing the sacrifices--which truly do damage to Christs once-for-all sacrifice.

The whole time I've swung from dispensational pre-millenialism to full preterism to amillenialism to postmillenialism---this is the one thing I couldn't deny.


I'm not sure if historic pre-mill and part-preterism can go hand in hand--but it's where I am right now......

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

can one be partial preterist and historic pre-mill?

that's where I'm seeing myself right now.

I just really feel that the destruction of Jeruselum was VERY important on the grand scheme of things--if only to truly usher in the new covenant by completely destroying the temple so that the unbelieving Isrealites couldn't keep doing the sacrifices--which truly do damage to Christs once-for-all sacrifice.

The whole time I've swung from dispensational pre-millenialism to full preterism to amillenialism to postmillenialism---this is the one thing I couldn't deny.


I'm not sure if historic pre-mill and part-preterism can go hand in hand--but it's where I am right now......

Hummm... That is interesting. I guess the can go together if you're there, but can you hold both and be consistent? I don't know. I never thought about that combination. But the Dinos smoking is great.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[Imblessed]

Hummm... That is interesting. I guess the can go together if you're there, but can you hold both and be consistent? I don't know. I never thought about that combination. But the Dinos smoking is great.

In Christ,
Kenith

well, you can hold both and be inconsistant, that's for sure, and considering my recent identity crisis, who could blame me??


oh yea, one of my favorite Far Side cartoons....it makes about as much sense as all the other theories I've been taught!

 

[JM]

Is there any links on the net to Increase or Cotton Mathers view of the end times?

 

[JM]

What does the reformed church believe about the return of christ, will it be imminent?

I found this quote on a rapture site: "Be prepared to expect Him every day, or rather every moment." & "Today we must be alert to grasp the imminent return of Christ." Commenting on 1 Thessalonians 4 John Calvin

Did Calvin really write those things?

What's the context of this statement taken from the WCF: "shake off all carnal security and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come."?

I see a lot of name dropping on rapture sites in relation to the imminent return of Christ and the Puritans...any good links from the Reformed side?

 

[Jon_]

What does the reformed church believe about the return of christ, will it be imminent?

I found this quote on a rapture site: "Be prepared to expect Him every day, or rather every moment." & "Today we must be alert to grasp the imminent return of Christ." Commenting on 1 Thessalonians 4 John Calvin

Did Calvin really write those things?

What's the context of this statement taken from the WCF: "shake off all carnal security and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come."?

I see a lot of name dropping on rapture sites in relation to the imminent return of Christ and the Puritans...any good links from the Reformed side?

You might have a look at this article written by Prof. David J. Engelsma, a professor at Protestant Reformed Seminary. It's a defense of Amillennialism and an attack on Postmillennialism. The postmillennial content is only of certain value, but the Amillennial content should be helpful.

http://www.prca.org/articles/amillennialism.html

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

The fourth option "Dispensational premill" is not an option, because it is based on different theology and is not Reformed. One can not be Dispensational and Reformed.

In Christ,
Kenith

Donald Gray Barnhouse, Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia. True, Barnhouse did not teach the standard Schoefield dispensationalism, but he was definately dispensational. i believe that James Montgomery Boyce, who followed Barnhouse to the pastorate of Tenth Presbyterian was also dispensational.

Barnhouse was the teacher of the late Dr. Walter Martin.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Donald Gray Barnhouse, Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia. True, Barnhouse did not teach the standard Schoefield dispensationalism, but he was definately dispensational. i believe that James Montgomery Boyce, who followed Barnhouse to the pastorate of Tenth Presbyterian was also dispensational.

Barnhouse was the teacher of the late Dr. Walter Martin.

You are correct. As was J. Vernon McGee of the Through the Bible Series on Radio. They were all Presbyterians but they could not hold to the Westminster Confession, or any other Reformed Confession, on some key points, because their Dispensational theology runs counter Reformed theology.

They were all Presbyterian, some were Calvinists, but none were Reformed.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[rmwilliamsll]

You are correct. As was J. Vernon McGee of the Through the Bible Series on Radio. They were all Presbyterians but they could not hold to the Westminster Confession, or any other Reformed Confession, on some key points, because their Dispensational theology runs counter Reformed theology.

They were all Presbyterian, some were Calvinists, but none were Reformed.

In Christ,
Kenith

that really is a tough call, making covenant theology a required essential to be Reformed. i think it proper but would be interested in essays online to read both ways(covenant is required or dispensational is allowed) to think more deeply about the specific question.

collect a few links here, i'll edit and add as i find or hear of others:

on Barnhouse
http://withchrist.org/MJS/neoevan1.htm

on James Montgomery Boyce

on J. Vernon McGee

on Dr. Walter Martin

on dispensationalism, fundamentalism, neo-evangelism
http://www.tyndale.edu/dirn/articles/dispwar.html
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Christian_fundamentalism