Question thats been bugging me

[Picture.Of.Obedience]

When people die do they automatically go to heaven, or do they go to heaven when the rapture occurs? If they dont go to heaven automatically, then where is their soul. Does that eman their are such things as ghosts??? I am a total believer, just had that one question. Can they hear us if we talk to them at their grave?? are these stupid questions???

~Stacy

 

[Crazy Liz]

There are about 6 or 7 Christian views of the "intermediate state" - that is, what happens to a person after their death and before their resurrection. A few months ago, I found a great link that described them all, but it's dead now. I don't have my reference materials on this topic at hand right now, so off the top of my head, I will try to list as many as I can:

1) The disembodied soul continues to consciously exist in heaven until the resurrection.

2) The soul exists in a temporary body until the resurrection.

3) The soul sleeps until the resurrection.

4) The whole person dies and is recreated at the resurrection.

5) The person is immediately resurrected and faces an individual judgment.

6) (often in combination with one or more of the above) Purgatory.

7) At death, the person immediately experiences resurrection and enters eternity, where the passage of time is not experienced in the same way we experience it in this universe, so that from the perspective of the person who dies, resurrection is immediate, but from the perspective of those remaining alive, it is delayed until the final resurrection (or rapture, if that is your belief).

There are problems as well as biblical support associated with each of these views. Some churches adopt a particular view of the intermediate state, while others tolerate a variety of views and take no official position.

 

[Philip]

A few months ago, I found a great link that described them all, but it's dead now. .

Do you still have the link? The page may be on one of the web archives.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I think they stay in Hades or some similar area until judgement day. Those taken during the "rapture" are with Jesus now though, I am pretty sure on that one.

 

[Symes]

When people die do they automatically go to heaven, or do they go to heaven when the rapture occurs? If they dont go to heaven automatically, then where is their soul. Does that eman their are such things as ghosts??? I am a total believer, just had that one question. Can they hear us if we talk to them at their grave?? are these stupid questions???

~Stacy

Genesis 2:7

"the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." (NIV)

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

As you can see a "living being" is the same as a "living soul"

When a person dies the ability to breath is taken away from that person.

It is like turning on and off a light switch.

There is not some part of a person that is looking down on earth from heaven.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For THE LIVING know that THEy shall die: but THE dead know not any thing, neither have THEy any more a reward; for THE memory of THEm is forgotten.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This is only juist a few verses to show that the dead know nothing.

 

[Symes]

I think they stay in Hades or some similar area until judgement day. Those taken during the "rapture" are with Jesus now though, I am pretty sure on that one.

From what you have wrote you must believe that "rapture" has taken place.

"Those taken during the "rapture" are with Jesus now though,"

Can you provide any Bible texts that support your line of thinking?

You have said "now" which means to me as present tense

 

[deu58]

hello all

All though not included in the Scriptural canons, The Book of Enoch pre dates the birth of Christ and gives us some insight into the mind set of at least certain schools of Jewish thought concerning the state of the dead in the Old Testament era. The Sadducee's did not believe in resurrection whereas the Pharisee's did.

I have included two small clips describing a little history of the book and ch 22 which tells what Enoch supposedly saw concerning the dead.
The only real thing it proves though is the question of the state of the dead precedes the birth of Christ.

"The Book of Enoch is a pseudepigraphical work (a work that claims to be by a biblical character). The Book of Enoch was not included in either the Hebrew or most Christian biblical canons, but could have been considered a sacred text by the sectarians."
- Milik, Jazef. T., ed. The Books of Enoch: Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4

The Book of Enoch is "an ancient composition known from two sets of versions, an Ethiopic one that scholars identify as '1 Enoch', and a Slavonic version that is identified as '2 Enoch', and which is also known as The Book of the Secrets of Enoch. Both versions, of which copied manuscripts have been found mostly in Greek and Latin translations, are based on early sources that enlarged on the short biblical mention that Enoch, the seventh Patriarch after Adam, did not die because, at age 365, 'he walked with God' - taken heavenward to join the deity."
- Zecharia Sitchin, When Time Began

[Chapter 22]

1 And thence I went to another place, and he mountain [and] of hard rock. 2 And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. 3 Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4 assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5 and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6 with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven ?' 7 And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 8 The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9 And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10 water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11 lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There 12 He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days 13 of the sinners. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' 14 The I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[christian-only]

(1 Th 4:15-18) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep. {16} For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The resurrection occurs before the rapture, and the rapture ain't no big silent secret.

 

[herev]

When people die do they automatically go to heaven, or do they go to heaven when the rapture occurs? If they dont go to heaven automatically, then where is their soul. Does that eman their are such things as ghosts??? I am a total believer, just had that one question. Can they hear us if we talk to them at their grave?? are these stupid questions???

~Stacy

so many views on this--as I have posted in other areas, I believe that we go immediately to heaven (think thief on the cross), but I believe that if I am wrong and I sleep at death until he returns, I'll know nothing about it and the next instant, I'll be with him--either way, I'm fine with it.
Tommy

 

[Crazy Liz]

Do you still have the link? The page may be on one of the web archives.

These 3 links all appear to be dead. I think it was the third one that had the list:

http://www.meta-library.net/theogloss/resur-body.html

http://www.meta-library.net/neuro/christ-body.html

http://www.stmattsmanly.org.au/Sermons/Inbetween.html
I don't know how to research web archives, but if you can find them, please tell me how, and post a current link.

 

[kdet]

so many views on this--as I have posted in other areas, I believe that we go immediately to heaven (think thief on the cross), but I believe that if I am wrong and I sleep at death until he returns, I'll know nothing about it and the next instant, I'll be with him--either way, I'm fine with it.
Tommy

Amen...wow that is terrific!

 

[revrobor]

When people die do they automatically go to heaven, or do they go to heaven when the rapture occurs? If they dont go to heaven automatically, then where is their soul. Does that eman their are such things as ghosts??? I am a total believer, just had that one question. Can they hear us if we talk to them at their grave?? are these stupid questions???

~Stacy

This question comes up frequently. I haven't read all the responses but you need to know that no one goes anywhere until AFTER the judgements which have not yet occurred.