Question regarding church building funds

[ChinaRoses]

Lately it seems that any church that we attend is starting a building fund for a new building. One in particular stood out (we've attended this church several times in the past). They had this huge "building fund" get-together party where people (even children) were told to pledge a weekly amount to donate to this fund. There were suggestions on how to raise this extra money (example - get a 2nd job, discontinue cable & internet service, make sacrificial cut-backs, etc). What do you think of this? It made me want to scream.

 

[ContentInHim]

Makes me want to scream also. I quit attending a lovely church this summer at my summer home because they spent all the time talking about the building fund and not about the Savior.

 

[annie1speed]

Sounds like this church is out of balance, and has lost the real purpose. Why have a second job that takes you away from family and the important things in life so you can go to a big impressive building two or three times a week.

Jesus was not big on keeping up appearances. The important part to Him was the inward man.

What is this place doing to spread the Gospel? Do they have a healthy benevolence program? Any mission work to speak of? How often is the building used through the week not at worship times to do the Lord's work?

The leadership of that place needs to take serious stock of what their true purpose is because they will have to give an answer to God someday for how they led the congregation.

Annie

 

[ChinaRoses]

Sounds like this church is out of balance, and has lost the real purpose. Why have a second job that takes you away from family and the important things in life so you can go to a big impressive building two or three times a week.

Jesus was not big on keeping up appearances. The important part to Him was the inward man.

What is this place doing to spread the Gospel? Do they have a healthy benevolence program? Any mission work to speak of? How often is the building used through the week not at worship times to do the Lord's work?

The leadership of that place needs to take serious stock of what their true purpose is because they will have to give an answer to God someday for how they led the congregation.

Annie

They're contemporary Mennonite based (leadership), but he's trying to copy Saddleback Church & their ideas, so they're heading in that direction fast. But, they're really into missions, living simply, they're a good church, but the pastor wants to get most of the unchurched in our area in the church, so basically he wants a mega church.

 

[Bobinator]

Mega churches didn't exist until after 312 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine made "Christianity" the national religion (Roman Catholicism). Before that, the apostles and all those who followed met in each others homes.

I'd say expensive church buildings and such are a waste of the Lord's money. You don't need that stuff. True Christianity happens on the inside. Like what Annie1 mentions, much of it should go to the mission field, which is God's work. Not appearances and man-made castles.

 

[bunced]

But on the other hand, there is an argument for a good quality Church building. After all, doesn't God deserve the best? And a high quality, well resourced church building can be a base from which to work effectively in the community, and to be attractive, and to get people in. It goes in line with healthy resourcing of Churches (using this as the people). Otherwise, where would be the motivation of moving out of the 1920s asbestos hut with no heating and little light? A church building should serve the needs of the Church - and if a new building is to be done, surely therefore it should be done to the best quality, not a "it'll do" cheap trick.

A good Church building can look attractive (sound system, lighting, projection) to people coming on a Sunday and should also function as a 24/7 hub of the community (and this is as equally important as the Ssanctuary) - Mum's and Toddler's groups, lunches for old people who are otherwise housebound, counselling, music practices, free coffee for 2am on a Sunday morning for all the clubbers and drunk teenagers as a place of refuge and safety - all this needs a well resourced, top quality church. God deserves the best we can give - look at the building of the Temple for an example of this

The problem only comes when the Church building begins to take precedence over God

 

[DIVA_for_Christ]

They're contemporary Mennonite based (leadership), but he's trying to copy Saddleback Church & their ideas, so they're heading in that direction fast. But, they're really into missions, living simply, they're a good church, but the pastor wants to get most of the unchurched in our area in the church, so basically he wants a mega church.

That is dangerous spiritual grounds for the leadership to be treading upon. When God is leading and you are following there's no need to copy. They should not be trying to copying another man's vision. They should be seeking God for clarity in what He's called them to do. They need to trust God that He will send those who they are to pastor. It's not about the quantity of people in the congregation. It's about operating in a spirit of excellence while advancing the Kingdom of God through obedience unto Him.

Pray for their focus to be turned back to His will and for them to receive clarity on His mission through them. Also pray for them to be obedient to Him in every instruction and direction He gives.

 

[Bobinator]

But on the other hand, there is an argument for a good quality Church building. After all, doesn't God deserve the best? And a high quality, well resourced church building can be a base from which to work effectively in the community, and to be attractive, and to get people in. It goes in line with healthy resourcing of Churches (using this as the people). Otherwise, where would be the motivation of moving out of the 1920s asbestos hut with no heating and little light? A church building should serve the needs of the Church - and if a new building is to be done, surely therefore it should be done to the best quality, not a "it'll do" cheap trick.

A good Church building can look attractive (sound system, lighting, projection) to people coming on a Sunday and should also function as a 24/7 hub of the community (and this is as equally important as the Ssanctuary) - Mum's and Toddler's groups, lunches for old people who are otherwise housebound, counselling, music practices, free coffee for 2am on a Sunday morning for all the clubbers and drunk teenagers as a place of refuge and safety - all this needs a well resourced, top quality church. God deserves the best we can give - look at the building of the Temple for an example of this

The problem only comes when the Church building begins to take precedence over God

I understand your point. However, it's easy to justify the works of man when it looks attractive. Jesus never relied on such things. He rebuked the pharisees and compared them to a cup that was beautiful and clean on the outside, but filled with abominations within. When Jesus gave instructions to his disciples, he prescribed something akin to poverty-

Mark6:8 - "And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save astaff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:"

I believe the Lord did this to emphasis that our focus shouldn't be on appearances and the use of wealth and church funds to feed our carnal nature. Instead, he overturned the tables in the temple calling it a den of thieves. Can you imagine if the money was spent on funding missionaries who are in the fields saving thousands of souls? Is a beautiful building worth more than a soul? If it cost $1 million through television to reach a single soul in America, you could use that same amount to reach 10,000 souls or more in a third world country.

The kingdom of God is not based on money, possessions and appearances, but the exact opposite- the truth. when you walk in the truth, signs and wonders will follow. That's what happened in the book of Acts where thousands were converted in a single day.

 

[bunced]

But money also needs to spent to support those people in the community around the church - and I think all to often "Jesus never needed that" is a useful excuse for not spending money when it is needed (not saying you're doing it, so please don't read that!). Neither extreme is healthy - what is healthy is reacting to a Church's need in whatever way is needed - and sometimes what is needed is a new building - there is no point struggling with a building that isn't adequate for the job, surely

 

[ChinaRoses]

It's not the fact that they've got the new church building. It's the fact that it was suggested that to make the pledge to give a certain amount each week, that a person get a 2nd job or discontinue cable & computer service. That's the part that really irked me.

 

[bunced]

Yeah, I can well understand that

 

[heron]

It made me want to scream.

After going through this with several churches, I want to raise money for a screaming team for you.

The leadership of that place needs to take serious stock of what their true purpose is because they will have to give an answer to God someday for how they led the congregation.

basically he wants a mega church.

That's greed. That's what he wants.

They should not be trying to copying another man's vision.

There is an assumption that God's perfect will is always growth. But so much destruction can happen amidst this type of growth.

that a person get a 2nd job or discontinue cable & computer service.

The first church I watched go through this, people started having heart attacks, nervous breakdowns, and problems with their kids. These are natural outcomes of overwork. God commanded rest. He commanded that we take care of the poor in our midst. He rebuked the oppressors who demanded more from those under their care, in order to build themselves up. It can't be clearer. You have a funny feeling about it because it's NOT right.

Another church I watched go through it was totally allured by an outside prophecy that it was time to build. The pastor didn't even approve his decisions through his board of elders -- he just charged onward, breaking all sorts of ethical codes and scriptural standards.

Think about your stereotype vision of a megachurch. It's too loud and crowded to talk to people after the service. Only the elite are involved in music ministry and leadership roles. People start to feel distanced and useless.

This is SO against Jesus' commission to go out two by two, moving in authority and power. A church body should edify each member, raising them up in their gifts and empowering them for service.

I have attended megachurches, so I'm not just making blanket criticisms. I just see no rationale for consolidating all the people under one tent. Eventually the leadership will realize that they need divisions for personal attention, which brings them back to where they started.

Also ... it doesn't sound very Mennonite of them.

 

[ContentInHim]

That is dangerous spiritual grounds for the leadership to be treading upon. When God is leading and you are following there's no need to copy. They should not be trying to copying another man's vision. They should be seeking God for clarity in what He's called them to do. They need to trust God that He will send those who they are to pastor. It's not about the quantity of people in the congregation. It's about operating in a spirit of excellence while advancing the Kingdom of God through obedience unto Him.

Pray for their focus to be turned back to His will and for them to receive clarity on His mission through them. Also pray for them to be obedient to Him in every instruction and direction He gives.

Agreed. Saddleback is NOT a good example to follow.

 

[bunced]

I dunno - Saddleback works well . . for Saddleback. But churches should never try to clone a church and make their Church some into something that God isn't calling it to be

 

[heron]

What is Saddleback? I thought all Mennonite churches were simple, independently-minded and socially oriented. If it takes the thread off track, then ignore my question.

 

[Elijah2]

It's not the fact that they've got the new church building. It's the fact that it was suggested that to make the pledge to give a certain amount each week, that a person get a 2nd job or discontinue cable & computer service. That's the part that really irked me.

Hi China Rose, it's sad but sadly when this happens the spirit of mammon runs the church. When leadership begins to berate the congregation for more money, that is when you depart and find a real church.

Those sort of churches have no faith, because they are relying on worldly business principles. Their issues are more important than God's issues.

Be aware, beware, and don't be unaware.

In my country, any money that is donated to a building fund is tax deductible. So it is promoted and made attractive. So much for giving with a grateful heart.

 

[ChinaRoses]

What is Saddleback? I thought all Mennonite churches were simple, independently-minded and socially oriented. If it takes the thread off track, then ignore my question.

It's Rick Warren's (The Purpose Driven Life) mega church. In "my" church, the pastors, leadership, & the in-crowd were raised Mennonite (lots of Yoders & Millers, etc), but for some reason he's making this church too contemporary. It's like he's just interested in reaching everyone in the city. In all honesty, he lives in a very modest home, isn't materialistic, his wife is very humble. But I can't understand why so many churches in the area, including this one, is adapting the "stuff" from Saddleback & Rick Warren.

 

[ContentInHim]

I know many will disagree with this, but Warren's "man-centered" doctrine does tickle ears! God-centered doctrine requires more than platitudes and feel-good theology.