Prosperity Gospel

[Tyler52]

The prosperity gospel is wrong. Jesus instructs us to pick up our crosses daily, not make bank. How many people could the mega rich feed and put through school if they didn’t have private jets and yachts? But instead there are Christians who pursue wealth for for their entire lives, and it’s a waste. The goal is to grow in Christ, not grow in wealth, although we need money, we don’t need mansions. The love of money is the root of much evil, just like the scripture says. So why then should anyone go to church to hear how God is going to make you healthy wealthy and wise? If you pursue wisdom with humility, then God will provide, if you are old however, then eventually, your health will fade. Your hair will turn gray, your body will ware out, you will get old. God can intervene, but that’s not typical. Lastly, you can not serve two masters, you cannot serve money and God. You can have money, but why use God for money? You cannot let the pursuit of money come between you and God, if we have wealth, we must use it for God’s glory. James tells us that we must not hoard money. Saving is fine, he says, but hoarding is not. Do prosperity preachers hoard money? Are they scriptural, are do they pretend to drink they’re on blood for communions? Jesus said that this is my body and my blood, not yours, not mine, just His. Christ doesn’t promise us prosperity, He promises us persecution. The Gospel message isn’t that Christ died for your health, wealth, and Wisdom, it’s that He died for your sins and saved our souls.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'd give it a C, though we aren't supposed to "love money,"

it is also written:

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than someone who does not believe. (1 Timothy 5:8)

Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need (Ephesians 4:28)

are Barnabas and I the only apostles who must work for a living? (1 Corinthians 9:6)

The above post lacks balance in this regard. It is essential to work and get paid for it.

The Ephesians verse also points out what wealth is for, sharing with those in need.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The prosperity gospel is wrong. Jesus instructs us to pick up our crosses daily, not make bank. How many people could the mega rich feed and put through school if they didn’t have private jets and yachts? But instead there are Christians who pursue wealth for for their entire lives, and it’s a waste. The goal is to grow in Christ, not grow in wealth, although we need money, we don’t need mansions. The love of money is the root of much evil, just like the scripture says. So why then should anyone go to church to hear how God is going to make you healthy wealthy and wise? If you pursue wisdom with humility, then God will provide, if you are old however, then eventually, your health will fade. Your hair will turn gray, your body will ware out, you will get old. God can intervene, but that’s not typical. Lastly, you can not serve two masters, you cannot serve money and God. You can have money, but why use God for money? You cannot let the pursuit of money come between you and God, if we have wealth, we must use it for God’s glory. James tells us that we must not hoard money. Saving is fine, he says, but hoarding is not. Do prosperity preachers hoard money? Are they scriptural, are do they pretend to drink they’re on blood for communions? Jesus said that this is my body and my blood, not yours, not mine, just His. Christ doesn’t promise us prosperity, He promises us persecution. The Gospel message isn’t that Christ died for your health, wealth, and Wisdom, it’s that He died for your sins and saved our souls.

Very few people who believe in God's prosperity agree with these extreme positions. I believe in God's will for our prosperity. First off, the phrase "Prosperity Gospel" is never used by those who believe in God's prosperity for the believer. This is a derogatory term used by those who do not understand what God's prosperity means. I know of no rank-and-file believers in God's prosperity for believers who want riches, planes, gold faucets, or any of these obscene displays of riches. That is not what God's prosperity is about. As a believer in God's prosperity, I do not expect or even want to have vast piles of gold or expensive items such as houses gold, jewels, automobiles, or planes. But I do believe God for the things He has promised His children if they seek God's kingdom first. More than prosperity, I do it to please God. Without faith, you cannot please God. I want to please God more than anything. More than pleasing Him, I want to give God legitimate pleasure with my Life. He finds pleasure in the prosperity of His People. But all this is secondary. I do not enjoy these "things." There is no fulfillment in them. Having them is a distraction. Riches are a burden. What I do seek is to glorify God in every way I can. I want my life and the lives of my family to be a testimony to Him and His goodness and provision. I have been poor. I have endured poverty to a greater degree than many of you could imagine. I believe God for a comfortable and warm home for my family. I believe Him for daily bread and clean water. I believe God for a good, safe vehicle (it is difficult to survive in today's world without a vehicle.) I believe for nice clothes for my wife and children. I believe God for safety in this life. What you have presented here is a false image of prosperity and what those who believe Him for prosperity are all about. It is what John expressed in his third letter. "I pray above all things that you prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers." I believe God for health and freedom from oppression. To prosper is the inevitable fruit of a righteous life. This is a truth expressed throughout the scriptures. If you seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, then you will have to have all these things added to you. It cannot be avoided. This is how faith works. Don't contradict Him. And you will have it if you do not short-circuit it by doubt and by contradicting Him and His Word. My family believes in God's prosperity for the believer. We are not obsessed with it. My wife and I are retired and do not even think about it. It is not even a concern. It happens. Part of it is giving from your prosperity. We started small, increased it, and then doubled it. This has been our rule for decades. We give to people who cannot give back. We let them know that Jesus is behind it. We could not give if we were not prosperous enough to do it.
Most believers in God's prosperity are not obsessed with money. They are obsessed with pleasing God by believing in His word and receiving the blessings that He has for us, thereby glorifying Him. This is not a negative thing, nor does it have to be. It is all a matter of attitude and faith. Be it unto you according to your faith.
What is odd is that most people who speak negatively about prosperity are, compared to the NT saints, sitting at a level of prosperity beyond what the NT saints could imagine. I would only ask that you, for the sake of those believers who are needy and living in poverty, lighten up on condemning them because they want to receive from God. Give them a break....Ok?

 

[Tyler52]

I'd give it a C, though we aren't supposed to "love money,"

it is also written:

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than someone who does not believe. (1 Timothy 5:8)

Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need (Ephesians 4:28)

are Barnabas and I the only apostles who must work for a living? (1 Corinthians 9:6)

The above post lacks balance in this regard. It is essential to work and get paid for it.

The Ephesians verse also points out what wealth is for, sharing with those in need.

I agree with all of this and never contradicted it

 

[timothyu]

Depends on whether prosperity is used for the benefit of others or simply for self ( or the church preaching prosperity)

 

[Guojing]

The Gospel message isn’t that Christ died for your health, wealth, and Wisdom, it’s that He died for your sins and saved our souls.

What do you think of the key passages that most of these people used to believe in prosperity, Isaiah 53:5 for health and Genesis 13:2/Galatians 3:5-9?

 

[timothyu]

The prosperity was for God's purposes, not man's comfort or gain.

 

[Tyler52]

Very few people who believe in God's prosperity agree with these extreme positions.

Those few are my targets

I believe in God's will for our prosperity. First off, the phrase "Prosperity Gospel" is never used by those who believe in God's prosperity for the believer. This is a derogatory term used by those who do not understand what God's prosperity means. I know of no rank-and-file believers in God's prosperity for believers who want riches, planes, gold faucets, or any of these obscene displays of riches.

Maybe not in your area, and maybe I am in the wrong place, hopefully not

That is not what God's prosperity is about. As a believer in God's prosperity, I do not expect or even want to have vast piles of gold or expensive items such as houses gold, jewels, automobiles, or planes.

That’s really good, I’m glad to hear that

But I do believe God for the things He has promised His children if they seek God's kingdom first.

Ok

More than prosperity, I do it to please God. Without faith, you cannot please God. I want to please God more than anything. More than pleasing Him, I want to give God legitimate pleasure with my Life.

That’s good, that makes me feel happy

He finds pleasure in the prosperity of His People.

Yes, but not all have it, and we need to help those in need, the poor will always be among us

But all this is secondary. I do not enjoy these "things." There is no fulfillment in them. Having them is a distraction.

I’m not trying to criticize, but I would like to know your response, why have them then?

Riches are a burden. What I do seek is to glorify God in every way I can. I want my life and the lives of my family to be a testimony to Him and His goodness and provision.

That’s awesome

I have been poor. I have endured poverty to a greater degree than many of you could imagine.

I’m sorry to hear that, I’m glad everything got better

I believe God for a comfortable and warm home for my family. I believe Him for daily bread and clean water. I believe God for a good, safe vehicle (it is difficult to survive in today's world without a vehicle.) I believe for nice clothes for my wife and children. I believe God for safety in this life.

This works very well in the west, you should trust Him for these things, but what about the east? Not all of our family have these blessings. I want them to, but not all end up with these.

What you have presented here is a false image of prosperity and what those who believe Him for prosperity are all about.

It was a challenge to those who do think this way.

It is what John expressed in his third letter. "I pray above all things that you prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers." I believe God for health and freedom from oppression.

What of the believers of North Korea who live everyday in fear that the authorities will find out they’re Christianity and send to a concentration camp? The same place where owning a Bible is punishable by death? What about John who was exiled for his faith? What about the prophets who were murdered? What about Nabeel Qureshi believing for a miracle but passing away due to his cancer? He was probably only 30s or 40s. It’s a blessing from God when we are given the things that you mentioned, but we need to recognize that not all believers have these things.

To prosper is the inevitable fruit of a righteous life. This is a truth expressed throughout the scriptures. If you seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, then you will have to have all these things added to you. It cannot be avoided. This is how faith works.

Matthew 6:31-34
“Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
“Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.”

This is about God’s provision, not prosperity. If it was then the poor would not always be among us.

My wife and I are retired and do not even think about it. It is not even a concern. It happens. Part of it is giving from your prosperity. We started small, increased it, and then doubled it. This has been our rule for decades. We give to people who cannot give back. We let them know that Jesus is behind it. We could not give if we were not prosperous enough to do it.

Good

Most believers in God's prosperity are not obsessed with money. They are obsessed with pleasing God by believing in His word and receiving the blessings that He has for us, thereby glorifying Him. This is not a negative thing, nor does it have to be. It is all a matter of attitude and faith. Be it unto you according to your faith.

Maybe where you are it is, not but when you invite people to be prayed over to receive material blessings, and tell them that they’ll receive these things, it looks bad if they don’t, and we as supposed believers represent God to the unbelievers.

What is odd is that most people who speak negatively about prosperity are, compared to the NT saints, sitting at a level of prosperity beyond what the NT saints could imagine. I would only ask that you, for the sake of those believers who are needy and living in poverty, lighten up on condemning them because they want to receive from God. Give them a break....Ok?

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to escape poverty, or even desiring to be comfortable, it’s lavish living (like Benny Hinn) and telling people that everyone who has enough faith will be healed and rich. This is not always the case, it only is if it’s God’s will. At the end of the day God does not heal everyone.

 

[Tyler52]

The prosperity was for God's purposes, not man's comfort or gain.

But not all believers are going to have this

 

[Tyler52]

What do you think of the key passages that most of these people used to believe in prosperity, Isaiah 53:5 for health and Genesis 13:2/Galatians 3:5-9?

Galatians 3:5-9
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[b] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Yes, all people who share the faith of Abraham shall be saved, by Jesus Christ, the seed of Abraham, we are saved. In this way we are blessed through Abraham. Furthermore, God can heal, and preform miracles, but He won’t in every case scenario.

Genesis 13:2
And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Yes he was, but not everyone is and was. Jesus didn’t have a house, nor wealth on earth. The the early Christians in Jerusalem in Acts gave up their possessions, some early Christians sold themselves into slavery for charity.

Isaiah 53:5
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

Yes, this is all true, but not all believers are healed. Paul had faith that the thorn in his side (whatever it was) would be removed, instead God said “my grace is sufficient for you.” Nabeel Qureshi had faith that he would be healed of his cancer, he’s with the LORD now. There are certain things that cannot be applied in every case scenario. When we are in our new bodies will have no wounds, but for now we live in fleshly bodies, and God will do as He pleases, His will be done, may He have mercy on us all.

 

[timothyu]

But not all believers are going to have this

Of course not. Belief is one thing but those who further His agenda may find varying degrees of blessings in many unexpected ways. But we are to seek Him, not the blessings. To seek the blessing defeats the purpose of servitude.

 

[Tyler52]

Of course not. Belief is one thing but those who further His agenda may find varying degrees of blessings in many unexpected ways. But we are to seek Him, not the blessings. To seek the blessing defeats the purpose of servitude.

I think that you can seek the blessing, but it cannot be our main goal, thank you for helping me think, I need to examine myself and my goals more.

 

[timothyu]

The whole idea is to put the will of God first and take the focus off of 'self', the foundation of all sin. In doing so we have gained our reward.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

It is cold in here. not the people. I forget that gospel is.

 

[Guojing]

Galatians 3:5-9
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[b] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Yes, all people who share the faith of Abraham shall be saved, by Jesus Christ, the seed of Abraham, we are saved. In this way we are blessed through Abraham. Furthermore, God can heal, and preform miracles, but He won’t in every case scenario.

Genesis 13:2
And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Yes he was, but not everyone is and was. Jesus didn’t have a house, nor wealth on earth. The the early Christians in Jerusalem in Acts gave up their possessions, some early Christians sold themselves into slavery for charity.

That is why if you want to believe in God giving you health, you will use the 4 gospels.

But if you want to believe in God giving you wealth, you will prefer not to use them because, as you said, the early Israel community are told to give them up in places like Luke 12:33 and Acts 4:32.

Instead you would rather use Abraham instead.

Pastors are smart, they know which part of the bible to use to claim which promise they want.

 

[timothyu]

Pastors are smart, they know which part of the bible to use to claim which promise they want.

Drawing their own crowds for the product they sell.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Sometimes poverty, sickness, and oppression are self-inflicted because people have a lack of knowledge about faith, God, and His Word. "Be it unto you according to your faith" works both ways. They are not bad or evil. Certainly not! But if a person contradicts God's Word by refuting and denying His scripture facts, then we are not believing Him or in His goodness. I am not criticizing anyone. But we should not accuse God of not being the provider and the healer the Word says He is. To please God we must believe that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Believe me... I am not criticizing anyone. I was there. When I was 22, our house burned. We were homeless, and someone let us live in a 2 room shack. I had two small children and a pregnant wife. No heat. No air. No running water. I had to walk miles to work every day because we did not have a vehicle. I went with the idea that this poverty was "God teaching me" something. Yes... He was teaching me that I was falsely accusing God, denying His provision, limiting His power in my life and that I just plain did not accept His Words. He taught me I did not have to believe or live this way. He taught me poverty is not a good thing we should strive for. He taught me His people perish because they lack knowledge. But I did not have to take this depressing detour in my life to know the truth about God's provisions. I could have just read and accepted His Word. I could have just studied His word and held fast to the confession of my faith. I began to thank God for His provisions even when I did not see them and was not experiencing them. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. I studied His Word, found His truth on the subject, and began to hold fast to the profession of it. I stopped talking about poverty and gloom. I certainly stopped blaming God for it and saying He could not do anything about it. I do not care if you live at the South Pole or the far side of the moon. This is not too much for God! We do not have to live in poverty. God is not limited because of where we live or the circumstances of our environment. These things do not deter God or limit Him. Believe His Word and profess it. If we seek and profess reasons why we must be impoverished, those thoughts will short-circuit our faith, become doubts, and even progress to unbelief, which is a sin. Jesus taught us how to pray = "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." I am not talking about gold, silver, expensive cars, and airplanes. I am talking about bills paid on time, a safe, a warm house, and the needs of our family being met. Unfortunately, some have taken this to mean we are carnal and worldly and believe in some kind of "prosperity gospel (sic)." No, this is simply believing God's Word for our needs. That is glorifying God. That is acting in faith. To do otherwise is a sin. People hear the criticism of prosperity and think they sin because they want better for their families. I am just saying we need to lighten up on the "prosperity is evil" stuff. It is not evil. If you love your family, you will want them to live well and be safe. That is not evil.
We need to be very careful not to malign God and His goodness. Who are we to judge God's will? What if He wants someone to be "rich?" What business is that of ours? Maybe He wants someone rich because they will provide for the needs of thousands of people. Maybe that person will support many missionary works. Thank God for that!

 

[Richard T]

Too often we think like the world. That we must compete for scarce resources of limited supply. God's kingdom is not like that. There is an unlimited supply that can come from God, and giving seed is a multiplier not a subtraction to someone else. Of course not every recipient is equal and Christians should be practical in their giving.

I too think that for every sermon on abundant life there ought to be at least two on wisdom, as the latter is far more desirable.
One needs to look no further than Kenneth Hagin on achieving balance. (A free internet library link) https://ia601308.us.archive.org/vie...p&file=The Midas Touch - Kenneth E. Hagin.pdf

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Galatians 3:5-9
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[b] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Yes, all people who share the faith of Abraham shall be saved, by Jesus Christ, the seed of Abraham, we are saved. In this way we are blessed through Abraham. Furthermore, God can heal, and preform miracles, but He won’t in every case scenario.

Genesis 13:2
And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Yes he was, but not everyone is and was. Jesus didn’t have a house, nor wealth on earth. The the early Christians in Jerusalem in Acts gave up their possessions, some early Christians sold themselves into slavery for charity.

Isaiah 53:5
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

Yes, this is all true, but not all believers are healed. Paul had faith that the thorn in his side (whatever it was) would be removed, instead God said “my grace is sufficient for you.” Nabeel Qureshi had faith that he would be healed of his cancer, he’s with the LORD now. There are certain things that cannot be applied in every case scenario. When we are in our new bodies will have no wounds, but for now we live in fleshly bodies, and God will do as He pleases, His will be done, may He have mercy on us all.

Like the faith heroes of Hebrews 11, we should hold fast to our confession of faith, even if we never receive the promise. But under no circumstances should we deny the faith or contradict His promise. By His stripes, I was healed and still am. That is the confession of my faith. I may die of some illness, but my faith, the faith of my heart, confesses that I am healed. May God give me the strength never to deny His Word or, more importantly, NEVER deny the stripes He endured to attain that healing for me. Denying the healing is the same thing as denying the stripes. Denying salvation is denying the blood. If we fail to discern the Lord's body, that may result in our being sick, weak, and dying young. You can eat bread until you are stuffed, but if you deny the Lord's body (the stripes He endured for our healing), then you will receive nothing but fat.

1 Corinthians 11:29-30 KJV
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Hebrews 11:13 KJV
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hebrews 11:39 KJV
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

What matters most is that we accept the Word as truth and hold fast to the confession of that Word. In the doing, we please God.

Hebrews 11:6 KJV
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[com7fy8]

That is why if you want to believe in God giving you health, you will use the 4 gospels.

But if you want to believe in God giving you wealth, you will prefer not to use them because, as you said, the early Israel community are told to give them up in places like Luke 12:33 and Acts 4:32.

Instead you would rather use Abraham instead.

Pastors are smart, they know which part of the bible to use to claim which promise they want.

And, meanwhile . . . while ones are preaching prosperity and health and others are busy with criticizing them . . . none of them might give us what Jesus says will happen if we leave family and things for Him >

"So Jesus answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time---houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions---and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.'" (Mark 10:29-31)

Certain prosperity people talk only or mainly about how you will reap twofold or tenfold or a hundredfold for the money you give. But in this scripture in Mark about Jesus > Jesus says if we leave family and property for Him, we will receive "a hundredfold". Not of money. But of "brothers and sisters and mothers and children" . . . and lands and houses.

From this scripture I see something I think Jesus is showing us, about what is *included* in the greatest prosperity > family love and sharing, I would say . . . with "brothers and sisters and mothers and children". And, by the way > if we let go of people and things, for Jesus, as He guides us, then we will grow in Jesus so we can handle more than all we have left behind. And He will have us discovering all He desires to share with us, and what He wants us to do with all the people and things which are trusted to us.

We don't have to own and control people and things which are our prosperity. But God "gives us richly all things to enjoy", we have in 1 Timothy 6:17. The prosperity is in the enjoying, not in the possessing and controlling. We adopt people with our love and prayer for them, trusting them to how God takes care of them. And so we share with God, in His prosperity of having these people and things for Himself.

Biblical prosperity, then, is not isolated just with some individual; but there is sharing as family.

And there is more about this in God's word.