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Prophetic Perfect

visionary

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Idiom ... “the prophetic perfect,” “the historic sense of prophecy,” “perfective of confidence,” “here now, but not yet” or “already—not yet.”

Idioms don't have names, because it is like saying "stop on a dime" and someone who doesn't speak English asking if it has a name. But it is known. the vast majority of the cases in which it appears is in the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts, but when it comes to English, the translators have not done a literal translation into English, as there is no comparable when the English can relate to and thus the translators have actually changed the tense, which loses its absoluteness.

For example, the Greek text of Jude 14 says that the Lord “came” with thousands of his saints. When did the Lord come with thousands of his saints? The first and only time he came he had only a relatively small band of followers.

I found an excellent explanation for this. The past tense is used instead of the future tense when the speaker views the action as being as good as done. This is very common from God's point of view, though the sense is literally future from our perspective, it is regarded and spoken of as though it were already accomplished in the Divine purpose and determination. I think the declaration itself shows the absolute certainty of the things spoken of.

An example of this is, if a mother asks her son to take out the garbage, he may respond, “Done.” Of course the job is not done yet, but the point is clear—he will do it in the future. The prophetic perfect works the same way; it speaks of the future as if it were already “done.”

The past is frequently used to express the certainty of a future action. Often we read OT prophets crouching the prophecies in the past to show the event as an prophetic illustration of a future event that will soon come to pass because "what we do not learn from history's lessons, we are bound to experience it again"

In Genesis 6, God told Noah to build the ark. After telling him how to build it, the Hebrew text reads that God said, “And you have come into the ark.” The ark was not even built at that time, and when it was built God told Noah, Gen 7:1 “Go into the ark” The "prophetic perfect" is that before it happened it was predicted as if it already occurred.

Another example of this is Genesis 15:18. The Hebrew text reads, “To your descendants I have given this land.” This promise was made to Abraham before he even had any descendants to give the land to. Nevertheless, God states His promise in the past tense to emphasize the certainty of the event.
 
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Hawthorne

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For example, the Greek text of Jude 14 says that the Lord “came” with thousands of his saints. When did the Lord come with thousands of his saints? The first and only time he came he had only a relatively small band of followers.
As far as this goes, Jude 14 and 15 are quotations from 1 Enoch as I'm sure you're aware.

Isaac, in The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, renders the passage in this way:

Behold, he will arrive with ten
million of the holy ones in order to execute judgment upon all. He will destroy the wicked ones and censure all flesh on account of everything that they have done, that which the sinners and the wicked ones committed against him.


Laurence and Charles use comes/cometh.

Might St. Jude have either had a Greek manuscript that had a variant or might it simply have been a stylistic choice in his part? Perhaps this is irrelevant since its parallel in Deut 33:2 may solve the 'came' bit:

The LORD came from Sinai
and dawned from Seir upon us;
he shone forth from Mount Paran;
he came from the ten thousands of holy ones,
with flaming fire at his right hand.


I'd also venture that Psalm 68:18 is also relevant given St. Paul's use of the passage in Ephesians.

I hope I didn't completely miss your point... :sorry:
 
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visionary

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To sum it up, I think the Lord always works in the Presence, the present tense, seeing and stating everything from the alpha to the omega like it happening before His eyes in the flash of the moment. It would be like something on how the movies portray slow motion, which is the realm we work and live in, where He sees it as but a moment. When He states something, He is in the moment, as it happens, and it is prophetic perfect for us.
 
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Yusuphhai

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Thanks for the commentary.

It reminds me this verse:
Rev 22:13 I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the completion/shalom, the first and the final.
And an Oriental Idiom:
Live in the Presence(at this Moment).

Apostle John lived in the period of great persecution in the area of Roman Empire. But The Lord let him see fromΑtoΩin heaven. The Lord Is One, why does He say He Is both ΑandΩ(including the middle letters)? I can interpret in this way. To Him the beginning and the procedure and the completion in Time is One point. In any time All is destined. “It Is Done”(Rev.21:6). The Lord’s Name is “I Am That I Am (Being)”, whatever the Past, the Present and the Future, He Is (One Being in Time). The middle letters betweenΑand Ω make the history and our lives an active but not an immobile flash. When we meet The Lord in the Presence (at this Moment), we are in Eternity with Him. And He comes to the presence with us.

Luk 17:21 nor say they, Behold here! or, Behold there! for, behold, the sovereigndom of The Lord Is within you.

When we did not know The Lord, He had inscribed our names in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4). To us something is not accomplished. To Him All is accomplished. From Α to Ω Be (One Word).




I am not very sure my interpretation is correct. Welcome to guide me.
 
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visionary

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Thanks for the commentary.

It reminds me this verse:
Rev 22:13 I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the completion/shalom, the first and the final.
And an Oriental Idiom:
Live in the Presence(at this Moment).

Apostle John lived in the period of great persecution in the area of Roman Empire. But The Lord let him see fromΑtoΩin heaven. The Lord Is One, why does He say He Is both ΑandΩ(including the middle letters)? I can interpret in this way. To Him the beginning and the procedure and the completion in Time is One point. In any time All is destined. “It Is Done”(Rev.21:6). The Lord’s Name is “I Am That I Am (Being)”, whatever the Past, the Present and the Future, He Is (One Being in Time). The middle letters betweenΑand Ω make the history and our lives an active but not an immobile flash. When we meet The Lord in the Presence (at this Moment), we are in Eternity with Him. And He comes to the presence with us.

Luk 17:21 nor say they, Behold here! or, Behold there! for, behold, the sovereigndom of The Lord Is within you.

When we did not know The Lord, He had inscribed our names in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4). To us something is not accomplished. To Him All is accomplished. From Α to Ω Be (One Word).

I am not very sure my interpretation is correct. Welcome to guide me.
Agreed. I have heard it said that Biblical Hebrew is not a "tense" language. It has no "tenses". A verb can be translated as either past, present, or future depending on the context and various grammatical cues. That is how it is, was, and will be. Therefore it is wrong to say that Isaiah 53 or other prophecies are in the "past tense."
 
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gadar perets

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It is also called Heterosis meaning the exchange of one Voice, Mood, Tense, Person, Number, Degree, or Gender, for another. A book called, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible by E.W. Bullinger lists many examples of Heterosis including the present for the future.

On pages 521-522, under the heading "Heterosis (Of Tenses)," subheading "The Present for the Future," he writes, "This is put when the design is to show that some thing will certainly come to pass, and is spoken of as though it were already present." He then lists some examples such as Matthew 3:10b, "therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is [shall be] hewn down;" and Mark 9:31a, "For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is [shall be] delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day." Included among this list of examples of Heterosis is John 8:58. Think about it.
 
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