Pope sees ‘providential’ moment as Catholics, Orthodox hope to celebrate Easter 2025 together

[Michie]

Pope Francis posed Jesus’ profound question “Do you believe this?” to Christians worldwide during an ecumenical vespers service Saturday evening as momentum builds for Catholics and Orthodox to consider celebrating Easter on the same date in this historic anniversary year.

Speaking at the Basilica of St. Paul Outside the Walls at the conclusion of the 58th Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, the pontiff reflected on Christ’s encounter with Martha following the death of Lazarus, emphasizing that hope “rises from the ashes of death.”

“This tender encounter between Jesus and Martha teaches us that even in times of deep desolation, we are not alone and we can continue to hope,” the pope said during his homily, which centered on the week’s theme “Do You Believe This?” from John 11:26.

Continued below.

Pope pushes for historic change in jubilee year

Pope Francis emphasized that hope is “always possible” in Jesus Christ during an ecumenical vespers service marking the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I think that Rome and the Orthodox need to link their Holy Week with the Jewish Passover.

 

[JSRG]

I think that Rome and the Orthodox need to link their Holy Week with the Jewish Passover.

The problem is that the Jewish Passover's timing is off in some years due to a defect in the Hebrew calendar.

Now, Nisan 14 is Passover, and Nisan is the first month of the Hebrew calendar. The Hebrew calendar's months are 29 or 30 days long, done to keep pace with the moon (which changes from full to new to full again about every 29.5 days). That means each month starts with a new moon and the middle of a month is a full moon. Thus Passover, occurring in the middle, is always under a full moon, which was probably pretty useful way back in the day before electricity to have a guaranteed full moon for your night time festival. But when you total that up, that comes to less than a solar year. So to make sure the months stay with the same seasons, every several years they add in an extra month before Nisan (much like how in the Julian calendar you add an extra day every 4 years). Since Passover is supposed to be a spring celebration--occurring after the Spring equinox--you added in the extra month in any year it would come before the equinox . The Sanhedrin made the decision each year.

This, however, was later changed (of necessity) into a repeating 19-year cycle, because with the collapse of the Sanhedrin there was no longer any central authority to decide per year. In this, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years have the extra month. The problem is that this slightly overshoots the length of a solar year, and the Hebrew calendar has been gradually drifting forward, gaining an extra day about every two centuries. That's slow, but over the course of centuries it adds up, and it means there are now years where you get the extra month even though there's not a need for it that year, pushing Passover a month forward needlessly. Passover is actually on track to become a summer festival eventually, even if it'll take thousands of years for it to get that extreme.

One of the reasons Christians gave for moving to their own calculations for the timing of Easter--rather than just seeing when the Jews celebrated Passover and putting Easter the Sunday after, as was how they originally did it--were accusations that the Jews were doing it wrong and picking the wrong date (the other big one was dislike of having the timing of the most important Christian celebration of the year being determined by those who rejected Jesus). It's hard to know for sure how accurate those accusations were then, but right now we know the Hebrew calendar is off, meaning the argument for not basing the time of Easter on the Hebrew calendar seems still quite valid.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The problem is that the Jewish Passover's timing is off in some years due to a defect in the Hebrew calendar.

Now, Nisan 14 is Passover, and Nisan is the first month of the Hebrew calendar. The Hebrew calendar's months are 29 or 30 days long, done to keep pace with the moon (which changes from full to new to full again about every 29.5 days). That means each month starts with a new moon and the middle of a month is a full moon. Thus Passover, occurring in the middle, is always under a full moon, which was probably pretty useful way back in the day before electricity to have a guaranteed full moon for your night time festival. But when you total that up, that comes to less than a solar year. So to make sure the months stay with the same seasons, every several years they add in an extra month before Nisan (much like how in the Julian calendar you add an extra day every 4 years). Since Passover is supposed to be a spring celebration--occurring after the Spring equinox--you added in the extra month in any year it would come before the equinox . The Sanhedrin made the decision each year.

This, however, was later changed (of necessity) into a repeating 19-year cycle, because with the collapse of the Sanhedrin there was no longer any central authority to decide per year. In this, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years have the extra month. The problem is that this slightly overshoots the length of a solar year, and the Hebrew calendar has been gradually drifting forward, gaining an extra day about every two centuries. That's slow, but over the course of centuries it adds up, and it means there are now years where you get the extra month even though there's not a need for it that year, pushing Passover a month forward needlessly. Passover is actually on track to become a summer festival eventually, even if it'll take thousands of years for it to get that extreme.

One of the reasons Christians gave for moving to their own calculations for the timing of Easter--rather than just seeing when the Jews celebrated Passover and putting Easter the Sunday after, as was how they originally did it--were accusations that the Jews were doing it wrong and picking the wrong date (the other big one was dislike of having the timing of the most important Christian celebration of the year being determined by those who rejected Jesus). It's hard to know for sure how accurate those accusations were then, but right now we know the Hebrew calendar is off, meaning the argument for not basing the time of Easter on the Hebrew calendar seems still quite valid.

I understand all that, but generally, the Roman Catholic Church and Passover, are the same week or very close.
The EO is usually a week or two off.

The same is with Christmas. The Church celebrates Christmas 9 months from the Annunciation in March.

 

[RileyG]

I think that Rome and the Orthodox need to link their Holy Week with the Jewish Passover.

That's my understanding as well.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I think that Rome and the Orthodox need to link their Holy Week with the Jewish Passover.

I did some reading last night about the Jewish calendar. It is crazy complicated with a nineteen year cycle and ‘leap months’ for seven of those nineteen months. The nice thing about it is that those months are synchronized with the moon’s cycles and are all either 29 or 30 days. But ‘leap months’? If we wanted to have Easter synchronized with Passover it would be complicated. The idea is to have Passover in the spring. It works for them sort of. The Gregorian calendar and the Sunday after the first full moon after equinox is simpler and has an approximately equal outcome. Both correct for actual lunar and solar observation. The Julian calendar is off by 13 days. So most of the Orthodox, the ones following that calendar, are off by 13 days. The ‘new calendrists’ at least fixed any continued drift so it won’t get worse. The ‘old calendrists’ will continue to see drift and end up like the Muslims where Ramadan progresses through the seasons. It will be much slower but in several centuries Easter will be a summer event for them.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I did some reading last night about the Jewish calendar. It is crazy complicated with a nineteen year cycle and ‘leap months’ for seven of those nineteen months. The nice thing about it is that those months are synchronized with the moon’s cycles and are all either 29 or 30 days. But ‘leap months’? If we wanted to have Easter synchronized with Passover it would be complicated. The idea is to have Passover in the spring. It works for them sort of. The Gregorian calendar and the Sunday after the first full moon after equinox is simpler and has an approximately equal outcome. Both correct for actual lunar and solar observation. The Julian calendar is off by 13 days. So most of the Orthodox, the ones following that calendar, are off by 13 days. The ‘new calendrists’ at least fixed any continued drift so it won’t get worse. The ‘old calendrists’ will continue to see drift and end up like the Muslims where Ramadan progresses through the seasons. It will be much slower but in several centuries Easter will be a summer event for them.

I remember just a few years ago, a Christian claimed to have received a message from Christ, that both Rome and the EO must
celebrate Easter the same day. If they don't do it, Christ told the person that He would and neither side would like it.

Anyway, I'm not saying its true, but I do know that if the EO tried to go along with Rome, the EO congregation would protest
to the point of having a schism within the EO.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I remember just a few years ago, a Christian claimed to have received a message from Christ, that both Rome and the EO must
celebrate Easter the same day. If they don't do it, Christ told the person that He would and neither side would like it.

Anyway, I'm not saying its true, but I do know that if the EO tried to go along with Rome, the EO congregation would protest
to the point of having a schism within the EO.

It’s a lousy witness having competing dates for Easter.

 

[RileyG]

I remember just a few years ago, a Christian claimed to have received a message from Christ, that both Rome and the EO must
celebrate Easter the same day. If they don't do it, Christ told the person that He would and neither side would like it.

Anyway, I'm not saying its true, but I do know that if the EO tried to go along with Rome, the EO congregation would protest
to the point of having a schism within the EO.

Myrna Nazzour from Syria? She’s Melkite Catholic and her husband is Greek Orthodox.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Myrna Nazzour from Syria? She’s Melkite Catholic and her husband is Greek Orthodox.

I don't remember, but it seemed that the woman belonged to the occult than being Christian.

 

[RileyG]

I don't remember, but it seemed that the woman belonged to the occult than being Christian.

Ah, Vassula Ryden? She was discredited by both Catholic and Orthodox bishops.

 

[Michie]

Random Ruminations #18 | New Oxford Review

Romanian Rain on Francis’s Common Easter Parade Pope Francis’s idea of launching a “common Easter” hit a road block when the Orthodox Patriarch of Romania voiced objections. His primary objection was exactly the condition Vatican II set 61 years ago in the long-dormant appendix to Sacronsanctum...

www.newoxfordreview.org

 

[Mockingbird0]

The Gregorian paschalion is a 19-year cycle with leap-months in 7 out of 19 years, too.

 

[Mockingbird0]

I understand all that, but generally, the Roman Catholic Church and Passover, are the same week or very close.
The EO is usually a week or two off.

The same is with Christmas. The Church celebrates Christmas 9 months from the Annunciation in March.

Easter and Rabbinic Jewish Unleavened Bread are close to each other in 16 years out of every 19. The exceptions are the 3rd, 11th and 14th years of the Western Christian cycle. Last year, 2024, was the 11th year of the 19-year cycle so it was one of the years when the Church's Paschal Full Moon (PFM) and rabbinic Unleavened Bread are a month apart. The next time will be in 2027, the 14th year of the Western Christian 19-year cycle.

The Julian solar calendar is 13 days off, while the Julian lunar calendar is 4 to 5 days off. This year, 2025, the Gregorian Paschal Full Moon (PFM) is on April 13 while the Julian PFM is on April 17, four days later. So the two calendars agree on the date of Easter, but disagree on how many days old the moon will be on that day. For the Julian calendar, the moon on Easter will be 17 days old while for the Gregorian calendar the moon will be 21 days old. A single glance at the sky on Holy Saturday night will show that the Gregorian is the better approximation.