Pope Francis to Lutherans: ‘Jesus Christ is the heart of ecumenism’

[Michie]

Pope Francis this morning received a delegation from the Lutheran World Federation at the Vatican and stressed that “Jesus Christ is the heart of ecumenism.”

In his talk given during the audience held in the Apostolic Palace at the Vatican, the Holy Father called this encounter “an important gesture of ecumenical fraternity.”

The pontiff recalled the visit of this delegation to Rome three years ago, an occasion in which they reflected on the upcoming 1,700th anniversary of the First Council of Nicaea in 2025 as an ecumenical event.

In this context, he noted that it is “a beautiful sign of hope that has a special place in the history of reconciliation between Catholics and Lutherans.

Continued below.

Pope Francis to Lutherans: ‘Jesus Christ is the heart of ecumenism’

In his talk given during the audience in the Apostolic Palace at the Vatican, the Holy Father called this encounter “an important gesture of ecumenical fraternity.”

www.catholicnewsagency.com

 

[The Liturgist]

Pope Francis this morning received a delegation from the Lutheran World Federation at the Vatican and stressed that “Jesus Christ is the heart of ecumenism.”

In his talk given during the audience held in the Apostolic Palace at the Vatican, the Holy Father called this encounter “an important gesture of ecumenical fraternity.”

The pontiff recalled the visit of this delegation to Rome three years ago, an occasion in which they reflected on the upcoming 1,700th anniversary of the First Council of Nicaea in 2025 as an ecumenical event.

In this context, he noted that it is “a beautiful sign of hope that has a special place in the history of reconciliation between Catholics and Lutherans.

Continued below.

Pope Francis to Lutherans: ‘Jesus Christ is the heart of ecumenism’

In his talk given during the audience in the Apostolic Palace at the Vatican, the Holy Father called this encounter “an important gesture of ecumenical fraternity.”

www.catholicnewsagency.com

Note that the LWF, as my friend @MarkRohfrietsch can confirm, consist of the ultra-left wing Lutheran state churches of Western Europe and Scandinavia and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which ordain homosexuals, perform homosexual weddings, support abortions, and also ordain women to both the priesthood and the episcopate.

If I recall Pope Benedict XVI, memory eternal, was planning on setting up something like the Anglican Ordinariate for frustrated traditional Lutherans.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Note that the LWF, as my friend @MarkRohfrietsch can confirm, consist of the ultra-left wing Lutheran state churches of Western Europe and Scandinavia and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which ordain homosexuals, perform homosexual weddings, support abortions, and also ordain women to both the priesthood and the episcopate.

If I recall Pope Benedict XVI, memory eternal, was planning on setting up something like the Anglican Ordinariate for frustrated traditional Lutherans.

It is looking more and more that we confessional Lutherans may need to set up one for our disaffected traditional Catholics in light of the heavy-handed nature of "Frank, the Hippie Pope" as the boys at Lutheran Satire call him.

 

[Michie]

It is looking more and more that we confessional Lutherans may need to set up one for our disaffected traditional Catholics in light of the heavy-handed nature of "Frank, the Hippie Pope" as the boys at Lutheran Satire call him.

They call him “Frank, the hippy pope”? Lol! Well at least it’s a little endearing. A lot better than some names some people had for poor Pope Benedict.

 

[The Liturgist]

By the way as an interesting aside Catholic and Lutheran settings for the music of the Latin mass are basically interchangeable, so one can use Bach or Schubert’s Masses 1 through 6 in both the TLM and Novus Ordo Catholic settings (one could also probably use his Deutsche Messe for the Novus Ordo), and conversely one can use the masses of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Palestrina, Byrd, Tallis, Gounod et al for Lutheran services that use Martin Luther’s Latin mass service, or the Latin mass rubrics of the 16th century Lutheran Archbishop of Uppsala, since unlike the Anglicans, the Lutherans did not actually impose a mandatory change to the liturgy, although Martin Luther disliked the text of the Roman Canon, but the Archbishop of Uppsala retained it more or less if I remember right. In practice, town parishes switched to simpler vernacular services with chorales, but the formal mass remained in cathedrals. In Denmark however the liturgy developed an idiosyncratic custom of having a parish clerk who would read announcements and then certain propers prior to the service, and to this day Danish bishops wear a ruffled collar instead of a more modern clerical collar, which looks kind of awesome. I suspect at one time Catholic bishops wore such a collar

 

[RileyG]

Note that the LWF, as my friend @MarkRohfrietsch can confirm, consist of the ultra-left wing Lutheran state churches of Western Europe and Scandinavia and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which ordain homosexuals, perform homosexual weddings, support abortions, and also ordain women to both the priesthood and the episcopate.

If I recall Pope Benedict XVI, memory eternal, was planning on setting up something like the Anglican Ordinariate for frustrated traditional Lutherans.

An Ordinariate would be wonderful for Lutherans in America, Scandinavia, and Germany to come home to Rome.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

They call him “Frank, the hippy pope”? Lol! Well at least it’s a little endearing. A lot better than some names some people had for poor Pope Benedict.

We really liked Pope Benedict; one of my former Pastors called him "the first Lutheran Pope". Francis is friendly with the liberal, woke, non conservative non confessional Lutherans. We confessional Lutherans do remain in dialogue with the Catholic Church through the International Lutheran Conference. Benedict was a great advocate of this activity.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

An Ordinariate would be wonderful for Lutherans in America, Scandinavia, and Germany to come home to Rome.

Well they are more than welcome to "come home" to Wittenberg and the Lutheran Confessions. We don't need to "rade" the Catholic Church, nor do they need to "raid" us; we are ecumenical friends in very good standing presently. It is the woke, liberal synods who's rejection of tradition and critical interpretation of both law and gospel that need restoration even if they do not know it. Local ELCIC parish is pro abortion, pro assisted suicide (one parish in eastern Ontarioo actually hosted such a suicide for one of their members... in the Church proper. They ordain practicing members of the confused alphabet people and make them Bishops too.

 

[RileyG]

Well they are more than welcome to "come home" to Wittenberg and the Lutheran Confessions. We don't need to "rade" the Catholic Church, nor do they need to "raid" us; we are ecumenical friends in very good standing presently. It is the woke, liberal synods who's rejection of tradition and critical interpretation of both law and gospel that need restoration even if they do not know it. Local ELCIC parish is pro abortion, pro assisted suicide (one parish in eastern Ontarioo actually hosted such a suicide for one of their members... in the Church proper. They ordain practicing members of the confused alphabet people and make them Bishops too.

That’s sad.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

That’s sad.

There are those in the CC that would gladly go the same direction.

 

[The Liturgist]

An Ordinariate would be wonderful for Lutherans in America, Scandinavia, and Germany to come home to Rome.

Local ELCIC parish is pro abortion, pro assisted suicide (one parish in eastern Ontarioo actually hosted such a suicide for one of their members... in the Church proper.

Woah, another one? This is in addition to the United Church of Canada parish in Manitoba that did that? Now the ELCIC has done that?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Woah, another one? This is in addition to the United Church of Canada parish in Manitoba that did that? Now the ELCIC has done that?

They are the same but think they are different. Lawless Gospel; what's the point.

 

[RileyG]

They are the same but think they are different. Lawless Gospel; what's the point.

Yikes!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Yikes!

The Gospel is meaningless without the law.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Woah, another one? This is in addition to the United Church of Canada parish in Manitoba that did that? Now the ELCIC has done that?

Rumor has it that the UCC has two atheists pastors....is this true?

Edit: Margaret Ann "Gretta" Vosper (born 1958) is an ordained minister of the United Church of Canada who is a self-professed atheist.

The UCC seems to be the model of church government that all the liberal mainline denominations will take in the next XX years. With dwindling numbers of church membership they will all merge into one single denomination and call themselves something like the United Church of the America.

 

[The Liturgist]

They are the same but think they are different. Lawless Gospel; what's the point.

I’m literally nauseated, and I am furious. I found the ELCIC’s documents, and also an article, a very good one, which covers the issue here,

Where Are the Churches in Canada’s Euthanasia Experiment?

Benjamin Crosby asks where the voice of the church is in Canada’s MAID and euthanasia experiment.

www.plough.com

And I am going to post a thread about this in DST, which I sent you a draft on, and I would appreciate also perhaps input from our pro-life Catholic friends such as @Michie and @chevyontheriver but only once you have helped me calm down and review it with equanymity.

One situation has become immediately apparent - the ELCIC’s enthusiasm makes providing alternatives to it a priority. And there is enough market share for all traditional churches.

Of course I really pray that our Roman Catholic friends in the pro-life movement continue to fight; we cannot become complacent just because of the repeal of Roe v. Wade, and indeed in Canada, the Catholics are working together with the Eastern Orthodox, the Presbyterians, Evangelicals, the Muslims and the Jews to fight the expansion of Euthanasia, an eccentric bunch to be sure, but humanity itself is threatened and I can’t understand the thought process that enables people to think that euthanasia is suitable for a mentally ill person with a hearing problem.

 

[The Liturgist]

Rumor has it that the UCC has two atheists pastors....is this true?

That’s my understanding. Note that I was never connected with them; I have not even been to Canada, but they are frequently confused with the also very liberal United Church of Christ, formed by the merger of most of the Congregationalists with the United Reformed church (the Calvinist branch of the emigres from Prussia, whose Lutheran counterparts are now the LCMS, polar opposites, as pointed out in 2012 by the LCMS president), which nonetheless still has, or at least had about 15 years ago a confessional movement, in the form of a dwindling group of conservative parishes and pastors called “Faithful and Welcoming”, but the United Church of Canada that was formed in the 1920s as a result of a fantastically ill-advised merger of the Methodists, Congregationalists and many but not all of the Presbyterian churches in Canada, not unlike the origin of the Uniting Church in Australia, is much more liberal than even the United Church of Christ. But the ELCIC is actually worse, according to the latest information I have. This is not too shocking considering that the ELCA has herchurch, “Ebeneezer Lutheran Church” in San Francisco, with its “Mother Goddess Rosaries” and openly pagan worship rites. Why is there a pagan temple in an ostensibly Lutheran denomination? I couldn’t tell you, but that’s the state of things.

 

[The Liturgist]

The UCC seems to be the model of church government that all the liberal mainline denominations will take in the next XX years. With dwindling numbers of church membership they will all merge into one single denomination and call themselves something like the United Church of the America.

There is a way which this could be prevented in the United States that would be entirely legal and above board, and which is rather interesting.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Note that the LWF, as my friend @MarkRohfrietsch can confirm, consist of the ultra-left wing Lutheran state churches of Western Europe and Scandinavia and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which ordain homosexuals, perform homosexual weddings, support abortions, and also ordain women to both the priesthood and the episcopate.

That sounds like pope Francis' sort of Lutherans. Mine would be LCMS.

If I recall Pope Benedict XVI, memory eternal, was planning on setting up something like the Anglican Ordinariate for frustrated traditional Lutherans.

I have heard those rumors. Maybe this will come around again in a pope or two if we survive. I think pope Francis doesn't know quite what to do with the Anglican Ordinariate. I doubt the is going to suppress them though. He sent cardinal Fernandez for the ordination of the Ordinariate's new bishop in Britain. Not what you would do if you were going to suppress them.

I hope there is a Lutheran Ordinariate some day. I could joint that as my mother was Lutheran. My grandfather was Methodist but that is not a direct enough link for me to be part of the Anglican Ordinariate. I can still go and visit them as I did for the morning liturgy today, but I could never be an actual member.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It is looking more and more that we confessional Lutherans may need to set up one for our disaffected traditional Catholics in light of the heavy-handed nature of "Frank, the Hippie Pope" as the boys at Lutheran Satire call him.

I saw that satire years ago. Man, they pegged it.

I get a new archbishop pretty soon as the guy we currently have reached 75 years old and was required to submit his resignation. Just wondering who pope Francis will send us. That LCMS church two miles away looks a bit more inviting than I would like to admit to. Especially if we get Kentucky bishop Stowe, who is a very Francisey kind of guy. My plan would then be to drive across the river to the next diocese and also be much more regular with the Anglican Ordinariate which has it's own pretty good bishop.

There was an April Fools joke about the Anglicans or Episcopalians setting up such an Ordinariate for the Latin Mass folks. The Episcopalians would allow the old mass while pope Francis still seems intent on stamping it out. At least I think what I saw was an April Fools joke. Rumor has it pope Francis is going to take another step in suppressing the Latin mass on July 16th (five days away). A fairly advanced rumor but we'll see.