- Jan 25, 2009
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Shalom 
To anyone interested, at one of the Charismatic fellowships I attend, had a thought recently in service where members were being prayed over and prophetic ministry was occurring. The leader asked everyone to remember how the Lord could speak to them personally and that all should ask the Holy SPirit to give them an image of something or a word to encourage them......and we were asked to draw whatever came to our minds when listening to the Lord share since the Lord often speaks prophetically throught pictures/images. For those unaware, what I'm describing is something known as Prophetic Art.
And what was on my mind was the image of drawing birds/phoenix. I had no idea what they meant since I had either heard of it in mythological stories or seen the way it was utilized in comics...such as X-Men in Phoenix.
The picture turned out to be pretty good and I was a bit amazed by it, to be truthful. Usually, when I draw something quickly, it doesn't come out the best...but there have been times where I did so/felt the Lord leading me to do so--and at the end of it, I was like "Wow...Lord, were you speaking just now?"
After having others be pretty amazed at the artwork I did, I went online and found it interesting to consider the ways in which the Phoenix was considered to be something that was well-known within the ancient world....
Seeing the ways others tried to take the imagery of Phoenix and make it a bad one due to how it seemed abused, I was a bit uncomfortable when the concept came to my mind...until I did more research....and I actually saw what others within the early church felt on the issue. In example, it shocked me to see how Clement of Rome was the first Christian to connect the phoenix with that of Christ's resurrection:
I never realized how a symbol such as the Phoenix could symbolize the power of the resurrection and what is promised to those who wake up:..in regards to apotheosis:
What shocked me even more, however, was that it seems there were others who have long felt that scripture has actually mentioned the concept of Phoenix before anything in the early church:
As seen in Job 29:18: Then I thought, I shall die in my nest, and I shall multiply my days like the Phoenix. The translation of the Hebrew word KHOL has two meanings. And many translations say sand but it can also be translated phoenix bird.
Others have felt that Clement's idea that the phoenix dies and its nest and the returns for a length of days has its origin here.
Additionally, as another source said best on the subject:
Who knows...
To anyone interested, at one of the Charismatic fellowships I attend, had a thought recently in service where members were being prayed over and prophetic ministry was occurring. The leader asked everyone to remember how the Lord could speak to them personally and that all should ask the Holy SPirit to give them an image of something or a word to encourage them......and we were asked to draw whatever came to our minds when listening to the Lord share since the Lord often speaks prophetically throught pictures/images. For those unaware, what I'm describing is something known as Prophetic Art.
And what was on my mind was the image of drawing birds/phoenix. I had no idea what they meant since I had either heard of it in mythological stories or seen the way it was utilized in comics...such as X-Men in Phoenix.
The picture turned out to be pretty good and I was a bit amazed by it, to be truthful. Usually, when I draw something quickly, it doesn't come out the best...but there have been times where I did so/felt the Lord leading me to do so--and at the end of it, I was like "Wow...Lord, were you speaking just now?"
After having others be pretty amazed at the artwork I did, I went online and found it interesting to consider the ways in which the Phoenix was considered to be something that was well-known within the ancient world....
Seeing the ways others tried to take the imagery of Phoenix and make it a bad one due to how it seemed abused, I was a bit uncomfortable when the concept came to my mind...until I did more research....and I actually saw what others within the early church felt on the issue. In example, it shocked me to see how Clement of Rome was the first Christian to connect the phoenix with that of Christ's resurrection:
Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.
Do we then deem it any great and wonderful thing for the Maker of all things to raise up again those that have piously served Him in the assurance of a good faith, when even by a bird He shows us the mightiness of His power to fulfil His promise? For [the Scripture] saith in a certain place, "Thou shalt raise me up, and I shall confess unto Thee; " and again, "I laid me down, and slept; I awaked, because Thou art with me; " and again, Job says, "Thou shalt raise up this flesh of mine, which has suffered all these things." (The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, chapters XXV-XXVI).
In Christian theology, what I had seen in what Clement of Rome stated in the First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians is very amazing. And from a modern perspective, C.S. Lewis used the phoenix in his Chronicles of Narnia series in The Magician's Nephew and The Last Battle. .Do we then deem it any great and wonderful thing for the Maker of all things to raise up again those that have piously served Him in the assurance of a good faith, when even by a bird He shows us the mightiness of His power to fulfil His promise? For [the Scripture] saith in a certain place, "Thou shalt raise me up, and I shall confess unto Thee; " and again, "I laid me down, and slept; I awaked, because Thou art with me; " and again, Job says, "Thou shalt raise up this flesh of mine, which has suffered all these things." (The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, chapters XXV-XXVI).
I never realized how a symbol such as the Phoenix could symbolize the power of the resurrection and what is promised to those who wake up:..in regards to apotheosis:
Others have felt that Clement's idea that the phoenix dies and its nest and the returns for a length of days has its origin here.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Then I said - So prosperous was I, and so permanent seemed my sources of happiness. I saw no reason why all this should not continue, and why the same respect and honor should not attend me to the grave.
I shall die in my nest - I shall remain where I am, and in my present comforts, while I live. I shall then die surrounded by my family and friends, and encompassed with honors. A "nest" is an image of quietness, harmlessness, and comfort. So Spenser speaks of a nest:
The image here expresses the firm hope of a long life, and of a peaceful and tranquil death. The Septuagint renders it, "My age shall grow old like the trunk of a palm tree" - στέλεχος φοίνικος stelechos phoinikos - I shall live long; compare Bochart, Hieroz. P. ii. Lib. vi. c. v. p. 820, for the reason of this translation.
And I shall multiply my days as the sand - Herder renders this, "the Phoenix;" and observes that the Phoenix is obviously intended here, only through a double sense of the word, the figure of the bird is immediately changed for that of the palm-tree. The rabbis generally understand by the word here rendered "sand" (חול chôl) the Phoenix - a fabulous bird, much celebrated in ancient times. Osaia in the book "Bereshith Rabba," or Commentary on Genesis, says of this bird, "that all animals obeyed the woman (in eating the forbidden fruit) except one bird only by the name of חול chûl, concerning which it is said in Job, 'I will multiply my days as the כחול kechûl.'" Jannai adds to this, that "this bird lives a thousand years, and in the end of the thousand years, a fire goes forth from its nest, and burns it up, but there remains, as it were, an egg, from which again the members grow, and it rises to life:" compare Nonnus in Dionys. Lib. 40. Martial, Claudian, and others in Bochart, Hieroz. P. ii. Lib. vi. c. v. pp. 818-825. But the more correct rendering is, doubtless, the common one, and it is usual in the Scriptures to denote a great, indefinite number, by the sand; Genesis 22:17; Judges 7:12; Habakkuk 1:9. A comparison similar to this occurs in Ovid, Metam. Lib. xiv. 136ff:
Then I said - So prosperous was I, and so permanent seemed my sources of happiness. I saw no reason why all this should not continue, and why the same respect and honor should not attend me to the grave.
I shall die in my nest - I shall remain where I am, and in my present comforts, while I live. I shall then die surrounded by my family and friends, and encompassed with honors. A "nest" is an image of quietness, harmlessness, and comfort. So Spenser speaks of a nest:
Fayre bosome! fraught with virtue's richest tresure,
The neast of love, the lodging of delight, The bowre of bliss, the paradise of pleasure.
Sonnet LXXVI The neast of love, the lodging of delight, The bowre of bliss, the paradise of pleasure.
The image here expresses the firm hope of a long life, and of a peaceful and tranquil death. The Septuagint renders it, "My age shall grow old like the trunk of a palm tree" - στέλεχος φοίνικος stelechos phoinikos - I shall live long; compare Bochart, Hieroz. P. ii. Lib. vi. c. v. p. 820, for the reason of this translation.
And I shall multiply my days as the sand - Herder renders this, "the Phoenix;" and observes that the Phoenix is obviously intended here, only through a double sense of the word, the figure of the bird is immediately changed for that of the palm-tree. The rabbis generally understand by the word here rendered "sand" (חול chôl) the Phoenix - a fabulous bird, much celebrated in ancient times. Osaia in the book "Bereshith Rabba," or Commentary on Genesis, says of this bird, "that all animals obeyed the woman (in eating the forbidden fruit) except one bird only by the name of חול chûl, concerning which it is said in Job, 'I will multiply my days as the כחול kechûl.'" Jannai adds to this, that "this bird lives a thousand years, and in the end of the thousand years, a fire goes forth from its nest, and burns it up, but there remains, as it were, an egg, from which again the members grow, and it rises to life:" compare Nonnus in Dionys. Lib. 40. Martial, Claudian, and others in Bochart, Hieroz. P. ii. Lib. vi. c. v. pp. 818-825. But the more correct rendering is, doubtless, the common one, and it is usual in the Scriptures to denote a great, indefinite number, by the sand; Genesis 22:17; Judges 7:12; Habakkuk 1:9. A comparison similar to this occurs in Ovid, Metam. Lib. xiv. 136ff:
- Ego pulveris hausti
Ostendens cumulum, quot haberet corpora pulvis, Tot mihi natales contingere vana rogavi.
The meaning is, that he supposed his days would be very numerous. Such were his expectations - expectations so soon to be disappointed. Such was his condition - a condition so soon to be reversed. The very circumstances in which he was placed were fitted to beget a too confident expectation that his prosperity would continue, and the subsequent dealings of God with him should lead all who are in similar circumstances, not to confide in the stability of their comforts, or to suppose that their prosperity will be uninterrupted. It is difficult, when encompassed with friends and honors, to realize that there ever will be reverses; it is difficult to keep the mind from confiding in them as if they must be permanent and secure. Ostendens cumulum, quot haberet corpora pulvis, Tot mihi natales contingere vana rogavi.
The Hebrew translation is debated. The Hebrew word chol is typically translated in one of three different ways:
The Septuagint oddly presents the Hebrew word chol as with the Greek word phoinikos, which technically refers to the palm tree. Yet it is very close to the Greek word phoinix or "phoenix." Some believe that the original word of Job 29:18 in the Septuagint tradition was in fact "phoenix." It is difficult to understand how a Hebrew word meaning "sand" came to be translated as phoinikos or "palm tree." Given the prevalence of the Jewish tradition of the phoenix reading, I think that the original text likely read phoinix or "phoenix" and that early on it was later corrected by a sober copyist as phoinikos or "palm tree" so as to avoid a rather embarrassing interpretation that Job believed that a bird died in its nest and rose again.
So it goes like this. Job 29:18 originally had an obscure reference to Job dying in "his nest" and then multiply his days "like sand." Probably through Hellenic influence, the mythical idea of the phoenix was read into the passage. The idea of death and new life in the context of "death and rebirth in the nest" was just to juicy to leave alone after readers new about the mythical tradition of the phoenix bird. Thus, the Septuagint translated the passage as referring to the "phoenix" and not "sand." Then later the Septuagint passage was mistakenly corrected, not by returning to the "sand" translation but by altering the word toward an entirely new concept - that of the "palm tree" or phoinikos.
In case you're interested, St. Jerome later translated the term in Latin as palma or "palm tree." I wonder if he looked at the Hebrew or not.
St. Clement in 1 Clement likely had Job 29:18 in mind because he quotes Job just after describing his chapter on the phoenix (25). He does not quote the Job 29:18 passage directly, but still Clement quotes Job to prove the long expected hope of the resurrection. It is not surprising then to conclude that St. Clement's phoenix sermon illustration for the resurrection of the dead also has its origins in Job
Again, alot of the things I've been learning of late have been ratherfascinating. nd part of me has been wondering whether or not it's possible that the bird was indeed a REAL bird---on the same level as something such as a Levithan , a creature noted to be apart of the Lord's fearsome works( Psalm 104:4, Job 41:1-3 / Job 41, Psalm 74:13-15 /Psalm 74 , Isaiah 27:1-3 , etc )--or other possible creatures such as Dragons and other animals of legend 1. sand
2. phoenix, as in the mythical bird
3. palm tree
In nearly every context, the Hebrew word chol means "sand." We should expect then that to be the Jewish interpretation. But instead, the post-Christian rabbis have almost unanimously interpreted the passage in Job as referring to the mythical bird, the phoenix. The midrashic document the Genesis Rabba or Bereshit Rabba (19:5) explains that Eve gave the cattle, beasts, and birds to eat of [the forbidden fruit]. All obeyed her and ate thereof, except a certain bird named chol, as it is written, Then I said: I shall die with my nest, and I shall multiply my days as the chol. (Job 29:18). The Genesis Rabba was composed no later than A.D. 450. From this point on, Jewish rabbinical scholars (e.g. Rashi) simply assume that Job 29:18 is speaking of the phoenix bird that is able to rise from the ashes. In fact, if you consult almost any Jewish translation of Job, you will find that Job 29:18 has been translated as referring to the "phoenix" and not "sand."2. phoenix, as in the mythical bird
3. palm tree
The Septuagint oddly presents the Hebrew word chol as with the Greek word phoinikos, which technically refers to the palm tree. Yet it is very close to the Greek word phoinix or "phoenix." Some believe that the original word of Job 29:18 in the Septuagint tradition was in fact "phoenix." It is difficult to understand how a Hebrew word meaning "sand" came to be translated as phoinikos or "palm tree." Given the prevalence of the Jewish tradition of the phoenix reading, I think that the original text likely read phoinix or "phoenix" and that early on it was later corrected by a sober copyist as phoinikos or "palm tree" so as to avoid a rather embarrassing interpretation that Job believed that a bird died in its nest and rose again.
So it goes like this. Job 29:18 originally had an obscure reference to Job dying in "his nest" and then multiply his days "like sand." Probably through Hellenic influence, the mythical idea of the phoenix was read into the passage. The idea of death and new life in the context of "death and rebirth in the nest" was just to juicy to leave alone after readers new about the mythical tradition of the phoenix bird. Thus, the Septuagint translated the passage as referring to the "phoenix" and not "sand." Then later the Septuagint passage was mistakenly corrected, not by returning to the "sand" translation but by altering the word toward an entirely new concept - that of the "palm tree" or phoinikos.
In case you're interested, St. Jerome later translated the term in Latin as palma or "palm tree." I wonder if he looked at the Hebrew or not.
St. Clement in 1 Clement likely had Job 29:18 in mind because he quotes Job just after describing his chapter on the phoenix (25). He does not quote the Job 29:18 passage directly, but still Clement quotes Job to prove the long expected hope of the resurrection. It is not surprising then to conclude that St. Clement's phoenix sermon illustration for the resurrection of the dead also has its origins in Job
Who knows...
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