• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Patriarch Bartholomew says 1054 church division ‘not insurmountable’ as 1,700th Nicaea anniversary approaches

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
179,623
64,552
Woods
✟5,677,556.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople on Wednesday offered a hopeful historical assessment of the traditional 1054 date for the “Great Schism” between Rome and Constantinople, suggesting that tensions developed gradually over time and “are not insurmountable.”

“Of course, problems have accumulated over a thousand years. But we are full of hope that they will be resolved in a few years,” the patriarch emphasized during an audience in Istanbul on Mar. 12 with a pilgrimage group from the German Association of the Holy Land.

The honorary head of worldwide Orthodoxy made these comments in the presence of Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch Emeritus Gregory III Laham, reported CNA Deutsch, CNA’s German-language news partner.

Continued below.
 

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
14,819
7,803
50
The Wild West
✟714,769.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
My view is that we first should focus on healing internal divisions among the Orthodox including the EO-OO schism, and then attempt reunion with Rome. Since otherwise the result would be an impartial reconciliation, which would cause the schism to be prolongated for some to a much greater extent. But I do pray for reunion between the Orthodox and the RCC, and I would be ecstatic if we could achieve it by 2054, although the actual start of the schism cannot be easily pinpointed to that year, so if we miss it, I won’t despair.
 
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
11,511
5,398
Minnesota
✟302,695.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
My view is that we first should focus on healing internal divisions among the Orthodox including the EO-OO schism, and then attempt reunion with Rome. Since otherwise the result would be an impartial reconciliation, which would cause the schism to be prolongated for some to a much greater extent. But I do pray for reunion between the Orthodox and the RCC, and I would be ecstatic if we could achieve it by 2054, although the actual start of the schism cannot be easily pinpointed to that year, so if we miss it, I won’t despair.
I wonder if Catholics and Orthodox could eventually agree on the Divine Liturgy and mass so that one could attend either? Perhaps without agreeing to anything else it would allow some intermingling and appreciation of what the other had to offer.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
14,819
7,803
50
The Wild West
✟714,769.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I wonder if Catholics and Orthodox could eventually agree on the Divine Liturgy and mass so that one could attend either?

Well, the Oriental Orthodox will sometimes communicate Roman Catholics in the Middle East, and the Assyrian Church of the East will always communicate Roman Catholics, and conversely all of the above and the Eastern Orthodox are allowed to receive in Roman Catholic parishes. However I think its unlikely that the Eastern Orthodox will allow Roman Catholics to receive the Eucharist in EO parishes without converting until certain theological issues are concerned, and the among the Oriental Orthodox, its mainly the Syriac Orthodox who have allowed it, primarily in Turkey where there is a severe shortage of parishes, as an act of oikonomia.*

However, it is the case that the Antiochians and Syriac Orthodox are allowed to receive the Eucharist in each others parishes in the Middle East (in North America the AOCNA is an autonomous church, formerly part of the Russian Orthodox Church, that after the Soviet union and the fragmentation of the Russian church in North America into ROCOR, the OCA and the Patriarchal parishes, went under the omophorion (aegis, you might say) of the Patriarch of Antioch, but are a self-ruled church; typically, autonomous Orthodox churches like the Church of Sinai, the Church of Japan, and so on, are influenced by the parent autocephalous church only in that the latter must approve the selection of primate) and indeed, the relationship of those two churches is so close that in the Middle East at least, as opposed to in AOCNA jurisdiction in North America, they will not receive converts from each other, so if a Syriac Orthodox marries an Antiochian Orthodox, they remain members of their respective churches and can receive the Eucharist in either. A similar agreement exists between the Coptic Orthodox and the Alexandrian Greek Catholics.

The tiny Church of Sinai, which consists of St. Catharine’s Monastery and a handful of tiny chapels where the liturgy is occasionally celebrated, and whose Archbishop is the Hegumen of St. Catharine’s (that being the monastery from which a Belgian adventurer stole the Codex SInaiticus, but recently a portion was returned, and that also has the 6th century icon of Christ Pantocrator, and the very ancient icon of the Ladder of Divine Ascent based on the book by St. John Climacus, which are important icons to us as well as to Roman Catholics), has communicated Copts, and does receive with hospitality Roman Catholic pilgrims who have come to see the bush that was burned but not harmed as a theophany before St. Moses the Prophet, the aforementioned icons, and the fragment of Codex Sinaiticus (which along with Codex Vaticanus comprise the two complete manuscripts of the Alexandrian Text Type, also known as the Minority Text; the Codex Alexandrinus is partially of the Alexandrian text type, but the Gospels follow the Byzantine Text Type).

Likewise Roman Catholic churches such as the church in Bari where the relics of St. Nicholas of Myra were taken do provide Orthodox pilgrims with the myrhh that streams from his relics, which is greatly appreciated. Additionally, relations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and other shared holy sites in the Holy Land such as the Church of the Nativity have improved in recent years.

So it might well be the case that as we draw closer together, that the Eastern Orthodox will reciprocate the Eucharistic hospitality of the Roman Catholics. This is certainly something to pray for.

* In the case of the Armenian Catholics, the Armenian Orthodox will likely communicate any Armenian or receive them by communion, particularly after what just happened in Ngorno-Karabakh, and also most Armenian Catholics were killed in the genocide of 1915, along with an extremely large number of Armenian Apostolic; it is distressing to read in the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia that at the time, the Armenian Catholic Church was the largest sui juris Eastern Catholic Church and is now one of the smaller such churches.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0