Pants on Women

[sageoffools]

Ok, I don't know if this is the best place to post this question However I am interested in the feelings on this issue from a young adult's viewpoint.

My question is regarding pants on women. Growing up in church we were always taught that it was unBiblical for women to wear pants, no women in our house our in our church wore pants. This is a standard that I have held to my whole life.
We are now at a point in our society where women wearing pants seems to be the norm, it is no longer seen as unusual or "unBiblical". Now, as I look around I realize that "every" woman wears pants now. Honestly, in all of the Baptist churches that I know of around here, my wife is the only woman that does not wear pants. Even my former pastor, who preached it for all those years, has relented his position, along with all of my family.

I guess, to get to the point, my real question is, what are your thoughts about women wearing pants. Let me say, I am not looking to start a battle of right or wrong, I am simply looking for some Biblical reasons why you do, or do not think women should wear pants. How do you feel about it, and what Scripture did you use to reach that conclusion? I am struggling with this issue, and would like some reasoning to consider.

Thanks!

 

[sageoffools]

One more thing that I wanted to mention.
The big argument that I always heard against women wearing pants, especially while in Bible college in the South, was two-fold:
1. Modesty
2. Gender Identity

1. Modesty - women should not wear pants because they are not modest.
My response to this argument is that there are skirts that are immodest. A women came into my office today for training, and had on a skirt so tight that I am surprised that she got it on. The key is, just as a woman would look for a modest skirt, she could look for modest pants. To me, this argument does not hold much water.
2. Gender Identity - women should wear skirts, to easily identify their gender. When a woman wears pants, it is too hard to distinguish her gender. Once again, to me this argument does not really work. Both men and women wear shirts, what is the difference? A woman's shirt is made differently than a man's shirt, so you can tell the difference. This same thing is true with pants, womens pants are made differently, to distinguish them from mens pants.

Again, I am not trying to start a debate with anyone, I am just trying to figure this out for myself, and wanted to address some of the arguments that I have heard, potentially before they were brought up.
Thanks for your input on this issue!

 

[*Kairos]

Why is this an issue you struggle with? I mean with all due respect, aren't there more pressing issues to worry about other than whether a women wearing pants is modest or not?

I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing pants, once they are not skin tight or something. I really don't like wearing skirts or dresses unless it's for a special occassion or for church sometimes. I'm more comfortable in my jeans, and I think I dress very modestly. Plus just as you stated, skirts and dresses can also be very immodest.

 

[Sketcher]

I don't consider all pants to be exclusively men's clothing. In fact, there are pants that women wear which, if a guy were to wear them, would be an invitation to be insulted and maybe even beat up.

 

[alfrodull]

Interesting. I'm curious...How is loss of gender distinction wrong? I can understand how it could be inconvenient at times, but did/do people actually see it as a sin? If so, why?

Personally, I don't think God really cares how we dress. It's our actions and intentions that count. A prostitute wearing a revealing outfit on the street corner is not bad because she is wearing a revealing outfit but because she is prostituting herself. A woman wearing the same outfit while say, acting in a film about the dangers of prostitution, or because the culture she lives in has different standards of modesty is fine. I've heard the argument that anything beyond a certain point will cause a man to stumble, and therefore women should avoid that. However, that point varies from person to person. I'm sure there are some guys who would lust after a beautiful woman if she was wearing anything short of a burkha. (I know that's how I was with guys when I was a teenager. ) But with everyone going around completely covered from head to toe would be very impractical, to say the least, and in some cases of extreme poverty far too expensive or time-consuming for people to accomplish...Fabric doesn't make itself.

There's also the issue of male modesty. If pants are less modest than a dress or a skirt, then pants are less modest than robes or kilts. And I have never heard of a church that expected all the men in their congregation to wear robes or kilts...

 

[peanutbutter12]

Culture dictates what is proper or improper when it comes to things like this. There was a time that even shorts on a male would have been immodest, but those times are long gone as culture changes. Pants have become acceptable for women to wear and we don't see it as immodest any longer. However, like with everything else, it seems the church is last to evolve with the changing times because they aren't as readily willing to accept change in things like this.

 

[sageoffools]

Why is this an issue you struggle with? I mean with all due respect, aren't there more pressing issues to worry about other than whether a women wearing pants is modest or not?

Hey Kairos, While I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree that, yes, there are more important issues to deal with in this world. However, first, as a (Lord-willing) soon-to-be pastor, this is an issue that I will need to address, and should address for myself before becoming a pastor. And second, while there are more important issues, this is still an issue, and one that was on my mind today, which is why I asked.
(Maybe I'll tackle world homelessness tomorrow )

 

[*Kairos]

Hey Kairos, While I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree that, yes, there are more important issues to deal with in this world. However, first, as a (Lord-willing) soon-to-be pastor, this is an issue that I will need to address, and should address for myself before becoming a pastor. And second, while there are more important issues, this is still an issue, and one that was on my mind today, which is why I asked.
(Maybe I'll tackle world homelessness tomorrow )

Oh I didn't know you are a soon-to-be pastor. I understand why this is an issue you will have to address. I look forward to your other questions.

 

[fishin4christ]

I don't see a problem with a woman wearing pants. I know several people who do though. They say it's not right for a woman to dress like a man. I definitely don't agree, but whatever floats their boat. Btw, are you a fundamental baptist?

 

[peace in the vally]

Um Wearing Pants Is Not Unbiblical, It Was Just The Culture Back Then, Women In Those Days Did Not Wear Pants. I Don't Believe In Wearing Pants To Church Only Because If We Can Take The Time To Dress Up For Our Boyfriends Or Husbands Than We Should Take The Time To Dress Up Before The King Of Kings....modesty Well I Fully Believe In Modesty, Your Neck Line Should Not Come Just Above The Nipple, And The Shirt Length Should Not Be Shorter Than Your Belly Button, And Don't Get Me Started On The Whole Underwear Hanging Out Of Your Pants. My Skirt Touchs The Ground, Or At Least Comes To The Top Of My Foot, And Shorts On A Rare Occasion And They Will Always Be Close To The Knee, Ect. Any Ways Don't Ranting Lol

 

[RobinRedbreast]

*looks down*

Seems like I'm good with pants. Would you like to know why?

1) I don't like to shave my legs every single day. Sue me.
2) It's cold. Really cold. Have you ever worn a skirt? In Vancouver Canada? Give it a try.
3) I get sick of going through nylons like water because I'm horrible for putting holes in them.
4) They're uncomfortable (or so I personally find)
5) I don't have your average itty-bitty-woman shape, I have actual curves, gasp. Skirts don't flatter me AT ALL.
6) ... did I mention they're cold?


If you want me to sit here and give you biblical reasons why I wear pants? It's just not gonna happen. The same reason I won't give you biblical reasons why I'd do any average daily activity. The best quote for the Bible I've found was from the Simpsons: "Have you ever read this thing?! Technically we can't even go to the bathroom" (indicating the Bible). What I take from a meant-to-be-humorous quote like this, is exactly true: You can spin just about anything to be wrong if you string together enough scripture.

But for me? Life is ever-changing, and God has a unique and individual relationship with each of us that is dynamic and not stagnant. As someone else indicated, it is culture that determines these things above all else. Culture changes, and I'm pretty sure God knows that


There comes a point in time where you are way, way over-scrutinizing life. At the point where I'm digging throug one of my many bibles trying to find something that will tell me what to wear when I get up in the morning? I gotta draw the line right around there I'm afraid, for me personally.

Those are my thoughts. Hope youv'e enjoyed them

 

[Hali]

And Morning-Glory, if I may add... sometimes you just don't want to sit lady-like all the time!

 

[RobinRedbreast]

Oh AMEN to THAT

 

[puddleoffaith]

I would FREEZE...I live in Canada. If this is biblically a sin, I think they should make exceptions for Canadians
No, I don't think it is a sin. Can you find a verse that supports that when read in context?

 

[Hali]

Did they even have pants in Biblical times?

 

[Trashionista]

I don't particularly like seeing super-tight skinnies on anyone*. Nor do I enjoy leggings as pants. Or MC Hammer-esque parachute pansuits.

But providing you find pants that work for your body, your height, your profession, and you just so happen to be a woman, wear them. Personally, I love pants - mostly a skinny/straight leg as I'm short and I'll have a bit more prescence. And I don't think there is anything morally or biblically wrong about wearing pants.

*This isn't a critique on skinny pants. But do wear your size. If you are muffin-topping out of them, they're too tight. If I can see underwear lines, they're too tight. If you can't bend your knees without straining, they're too tight. Just go up a damn size in your pants!

 

[The Princess Bride]

1) My pants were designed for the shape of the female figure, which is most apparently different from those of males.

2) When fitting appropriately, they can be just as modest [and more realistic] than skirts or dresses to wear.

3) They are a LOT warmer on the legs than dresses in winter!

 

[Qyöt27]

Again on the culture side of it, back in Biblical times, everyone wore robes - men and women alike. There may have been differences about the cut of the robes or whatever, but it was robes all the same. That applies to pants as well.

Bringing up the gender identity issue, there may be times I can't tell if a person is male or female, but that has almost nothing to do with whether they're wearing pants. It has to do more with body type in general - some women do have rather masculine builds. But generally speaking, there are a plethora of other signs that someone is female or male than focusing on their choice of leg coverings. And concerning the verse talking about cross-dressing, the argument falls flat partially because of the robes issue before - there are pants specifically made for women, much like robes that were either specially made or unisexed. And for that matter, many types of pants nowadays are unisexed (although typically you'd find these in the men's section). As well, that verse, depending on who you ask, may be seen more as a warning against trying to be something you're not in your heart, as the heart determines the appearance, but not necessarily the other way around (in other words, if a person is wearing men's or women's clothing because they actually want to be something/someone they aren't, that's the issue, not simply the fact that they're wearing said clothing).

Dress pants are indeed different, but for all intents and purposes, men's jeans/shorts/athletic pants are pretty unisex now - and this has somewhat to do with the issue of modesty. For many women to feel modest, the typical offerings of casual wear at department stores may not match that need, and they don't have the opportunity to special-order clothing. Hence, since men's casual stuff tends to be more or less unisex, it's more convenient and more modest to shop in that section.

 

[buddy_holly]

I think the original post, which has been clarified, was (for a pastor) whether it was ok for women to wear pants. In the 50's to the 80's the baby boomers were tought that by their parents. However the next gemeration (gen x, as it were) was not tought the same thing. It's just a generational thing.

My grandmother and mother always wears skirts when attending church, but people my age don't see a difference.

I also couldnt see a problem with either, providing whatever is worn is tasteful. I doubt God cares what is worn as long as it is respectful.

 

[Windmill]

Hey mate this is, within very conservative circles, quite a large issue.

I am with some of the others in that I also do not consider it a pressing issue. However I know that you do. So I can give you my point of view.

1) Modesty

To be perfectly honest, because culturally we no longer consider wearing pants different or weird or anything, seeing a girls leg shape (somewhat) through pants doesn't send guys off in a titsy.

Lets get this straight: modesty is a relative issue. Modesty changes from culture to culture. What was modest 50 years ago isn't the same as whats modest now. Same with being polite. To be polite 50 years ago, you go through different social graces as you do now. Modesty is the same.

If a guy gets sexually aroused by a girl in jeans, then I worry for him, because 99.999999999% of guys do not get aroused by a girl because she is wearing jeans. If he does get aroused, it is likely either a) his own fault b) the fault of the parents from shielding him from something that is all around him.

And as you said, skirts can be immodest too. It all really depends. But in some circles, they think that girls wearing pants will sexually arouse the guys, and so the girls are forced to wear skirts. IMHO this is the wrong attitude to take. The girls shouldn't be condemned, but the boys who need to get ahold of their own sexual desires.

Girls not being allowed to wear pants limits them oftentimes significantly. Physical activity becomes tougher (because like, you can't do as much stuff in a skirt and be modest) and when it gets cold skirts are freezing unless you want to wear a kilt. Oh and does anyone want to swim in a skirt? No.

2) Gender Roles

Like you said, the issue is a cop out.

Lets be frank here. Can you never tell a woman apart from a man, because she is wearing pants? No I'm sure you can. People who can't be told apart are called cross dressers and they have to go out of their way significantly. Also as somebody else said: Guys used to wear robes, not pants, as did the women. You could still tell them apart.

Now guys wearing skirts is socially plain weird. You can do it if you like but everyone will think you'll look funny. But everyone can easily see you're a guy, just wearing a skirt. Well, everyone can see you're a girl, just wearing pants, its so blatantly obvious its pretty much impossible to explain how obvious it is to be honest

In the end, modesty is relative. Pants are considered by the vast vast vast vast VAST majority of society to be perfectly modest. Modesty is deemed by society. What they say goes. What is modest in a Pacific Island is not modest in other places. In Maori culture is was modest for women to go topless- well its certainly not modest in our culture! So don't do it. But if you were a Maori back then 300 years ago- then go topless.

You yourself even came to similar conclusions. I'd relax on the women wearing pants issue if I were you too heck your wife may not even want to wear pants, especially if you live somewhere hot.