Orthodox vs Baptist: What's the Difference in Their Beliefs?

[lambofgod43985889]

what things they share with baptist and what not

is it baptist an evangelical church?

 

[thecolorsblend]

what things they share with baptist and what not

is it baptist an evangelical church?

My answer to your post is predicated on the assumption that you refer to the Eastern Orthodox Church in your OP.

Assuming that I am correct, for discussion's sake we can say that the Eastern Orthodox are fairly comparable to the Catholic Church with respect to their belief in the sacraments (including the sacramental priesthood) and in much (if not all) of their theology.

Generally, Baptists tend to reject the sacraments. And I should imagine you are aware of at least some of the theological disagreements which the Baptists tend to have with the traditional Christians.

The Baptist worship style also tends to be markedly different from that of the Eastern Orthodox. Whereas the Orthodox use a defined liturgy preserved and handed down over the millennia, Baptists often adhere to the evangelical model of Christian worship.

My observation of the Eastern Orthodox shows that they tend to do relatively little sitting during their Divine Liturgy. The Orthodox with whom I am acquainted rationalize the matter that they are in God's presence and so standing as often as they do is a show of respect, reverence and worship.

Frankly, the differences probably go much deeper even than what I have outlined above. But those are some useful starting points.

Then again, you may not be referring to the Eastern Orthodox at all. And if that's the case, kindly disregard this post.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

One of the big differences is in how the Churches operate.

Baptists organize along local Churches, with each being independent and fully able to govern itself without the need for consent from the wider Baptist community. (If I'm incorrect about this, please let a Baptist correct me).

The Orthodox Church, is a global communion wherein local Churches are not free to completely govern themselves but are under the spiritual guidance of a Bishop and/or Patriarch. There are separate communities within the Orthodox Church but we are united in our recognition of the other jurisdictions. The Greek Church recognizes the Bulgarian Church for example or the Russian Church recognizes the Antiochian Church.

 

[Daniel9v9]

There are some very sharp differences between Baptists and Eastern Orthodox (if that's what you mean!). Some of which have already been touched upon. Here's an overview:

Baptist:
A sub-branch of the Reformed church. It primarily has its roots in the Reformer Zwingli, who was a theologically radical reformer (compared to other reformers). They are also influenced by Calvin, who was a bit more moderate. When these reformers broke with the Roman Catholic Church they wished to reform it fairly drastically, and one of the biggest effects of this is the rejection of the Sacraments as understood in its orthodox sense.

Baptism and the Eucharist are understood as symbols in the Baptist system; to be baptised can be understood as an act of obedience, a public declaration of faith, a decision to follow Jesus. It's not considered to confer any grace in and of itself. They sometimes insist on full immersion in baptism, and some allow for and even encourage re-baptism (if someone falls out of faith and wishes to come back). Likewise, the Eucharist is also viewed as a symbol. It's memorialism; time to reflect on Christ's life, death and resurrection. The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is denied, and so, it doesn't confer any grace. Given that the Sacraments are understood as outward symbols, anyone can perform them. But for the sake of order, it's often done by pastors and people involved in the ministry.

Baptist theology can perhaps be explained as a minimalist Protestant theology (from where other Charismatic, Pentecostal and non-denominational branches often draw from). On authority, they all believe in Scripture alone. There are several autonomous Baptist bodies, without any one head (Christ is the Head). They reject apostolic succession in the orthodox sense. They reject the invocation of Mary and other saints. They have Calvinistic (Monergism - God saves) and Arminian (Synergism - we collaborate with God's saving act) wings. Some branches have charismatic leanings. Their liturgy is broad in style - some modern, some traditional, but generally speaking quite far from Eastern Orthodoxy. A big reason for this is simply because they come out of the Reformed, from Roman Catholic, from the Augustinian Order - so not from the Eastern Orthodox line. Most importantly, they hold to justification by faith alone.

Eastern Orthodox:
The Eastern Orthodox Church bears three prominent marks: they're formed apart from the Roman Catholic Church, they're composed of a number of independent national churches, and they're proud orthodox. On authority, they are subject to God's Word, Bishops and Patriarchs and the ecclesiastical deliverances of the time from 325 to 787 - the Seven Ecumenical Councils; in other words, the Bible and holy tradition.

There are (arguably) seven Sacraments in the Eastern Orthodox Church. A Sacrament is defined by the Orthodox as "a holy act through which grace, or, in other words, the saving power of God, works mysteriously upon man. The Eucharist is perhaps the chief Sacrament and it's understood as a holy mystery, whereby the body and blood of Christ is truly present; they believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

The liturgy occupies great importance in the Eastern Orthodox system. Their Biblical Canon sometimes vary, but essentially includes the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical books. They invoke angels and saints. It is believed that the saints by their prayers strengthen and offer before God the prayers of the faithful. They write: “Especially the Virgin has received grace beyond any other creature and is supreme over all angels, standing at the right hand of her Son.” In Orthodox theology, Mary is said to be the object of hyperdulia (special veneration) as distinguished from the dulia (veneration, homage) of the saints and the latria (worship) due to God.

The most fundamental differences I would say is this:
Baptists say that salvation is apprehended through faith in the person and works of Jesus Christ, apart from works. Good works are a result of this faith in Christ. However, at least Arminian Baptists, insist that obedience to Christ is necessary to salvation. They reject infant baptism.

Eastern Orthodox say that salvation is apprehended through faith in the person and works of Jesus Christ, and our works, by God's grace. Works are necessary for salvation.

In my mind, Eastern Orthodox is the most conservative body in Christendom, whereas Baptists are theologically (not morally) liberal Reformers. So the gap is quite wide - what I've mentioned so far doesn't do it justice. If you're interested in properly understanding the difference, I would encourage you to talk to a pastor or priest, and read about the Reformation.

Blessings! +

 

[Rescued One]

Baptists don't agree with Baptists of other Baptist denominations; some are Calvinists, some aren't and still there are differences.

Not all Orthodox churches are identical.

 

[Newtheran]

what things they share with baptist and what not

is it baptist an evangelical church?

Most baptists could be considered one flavor of "evangelical" or another. The various denominations of Baptists trace their roots to the anabaptists / Zwinglians / Swiss reformers.

As such, they share very little with the Orthodox.

Will give you an idea of who the Orthodox are.

 

[ripple the car]

Ok, so, being married to a Baptist man.... though the views of tradition, Salvation, Sacraments, and Church are deeply, deeply, irreconcilably different, something that I *have* noticed is that many Baptists, like the Orthodox, have a deep love of Scripture, and an unyielding desire to obey Scripture, rather than the world on issues related to morality and the family. That, I think, is one point where perhaps the two groups could see eye to eye.

 

[Newtheran]

Ok, so, being married to a Baptist man.... though the views of tradition, Salvation, Sacraments, and Church are deeply, deeply, irreconcilably different, something that I *have* noticed is that many Baptists, like the Orthodox, have a deep love of Scripture, and an unyielding desire to obey Scripture, rather than the world on issues related to morality and the family. That, I think, is one point where perhaps the two groups could see eye to eye.

Good point. Former baptist, I'd agree with this. However, this is slowly starting to change at least in the SBC.

 

[Willie T]

Very plainly stated, there is a world of difference between the two. And I mean that as seriously as I can say it. I have been to Eastern and Greek Orthodox, and I was raised Baptist. I go to neither now.

 

[Willie T]

A point to consider:

For Christians to be persuaded, they have to be seeking, evaluating, and comparing what they are being told with what they have come to understand in the bible. The Christian is cautioned not to see Christianity as binary (those who are right versus those who are wrong). When this happens, the Christian may think that he no longer needs to be searching since he has arrived at what is right. As long as we fall short of the image of Christ, our Christian walk is incomplete and we need to continue our seeking.

A bible teacher was once discussing end times when a student asked him why he took a pre tribulation position. The man made reference to 1 Thessalonians chapter four and showed that the context went into chapter five where Paul wrote “we are not appointed unto wrath". The teacher told the student that he saw this as supporting the view that Christians would not go through the tribulation. He then told the student, “If you have a different view, tell me your reasons from the bible and maybe I will be persuaded. This illustrates a more healthy Christian perspective of following truth.

“Don’t tell me what to believe, tell me what persuaded you so that I may also be persuaded.”

 

[ripple the car]

Good point. Former baptist, I'd agree with this. However, this is slowly starting to change at least in the SBC.

That's pretty sad. I thought the SBC would do a pretty good job of holding out.

Christ did warn us about this, though. But it's still sad to see it happening. God give us the strength, humility, meekness, and grace to hold out, and fight on, wherever we are.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Good point. Former baptist, I'd agree with this. However, this is slowly starting to change at least in the SBC.

I checked out of the Baptist world over six years ago. So I'm a bit out of the loop.

What exactly are you referring to here?

If answering is too much of a hot potato for this forum, feel welcome to PM me.

 

[FenderTL5]

I was raised in the Independent Baptist Church, later SBC. I was Chrismated Orthodox after 18 months of catechism in 2015.
The differences are numerous but I have to agree with an earlier post, it was a love of scripture that was instilled early on that finally brought me to seek out its origins and history.

 

[Newtheran]

I checked out of the Baptist world over six years ago. So I'm a bit out of the loop.

What exactly are you referring to here?

https://thefederalist.com/2019/06/1...orts-anti-christian-racial-identity-politics/

Southern Baptists Embrace Gender-Inclusive Language in the Bible

SBC President J.D. Greear Is A Racist

 

[thecolorsblend]

https://thefederalist.com/2019/06/1...orts-anti-christian-racial-identity-politics/

Southern Baptists Embrace Gender-Inclusive Language in the Bible

SBC President J.D. Greear Is A Racist

I am concerned that typing anything specific here could get me in trouble. I suspect you know what I'm thinking anyway.

So I'll simply say thank you for providing those links.

 

[Brighid]

They invoke angels and saints. It is believed that the saints by their prayers strengthen and offer before God the prayers of the faithful. They write: “Especially the Virgin has received grace beyond any other creature and is supreme over all angels, standing at the right hand of her Son.” In Orthodox theology, Mary is said to be the object of hyperdulia (special veneration) as distinguished from the dulia (veneration, homage) of the saints and the latria (worship) due to God.+

Do they really invoke the Saints and angels, or just ask their intercession in prayer?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Do they really invoke the Saints and angels, or just ask their intercession in prayer?

They believe in believe in invocation and intercession. Here are some quotes from the Council of Trent, Session XXV: “The Holy synod enjoins on all bishops and others who sustain the office and charge of teaching that ... they especially instruct the faithful diligently concerning the intercession and invocation of saints ...” And it is believed that: “The veneration and invocation of the holy angels and beatified souls are not in conflict with the law that God alone should be worshipped.”

EDIT: Sorry, my bad. It’s been a while since I commented in this thread and I when I replied just now, I had in mind the Roman Catholic Church, which is why the quote is from Trent (Roman Catholic). The Eastern Orthodox Church don’t have too many confessional writings, so it can be a little tricky to find explicit official quotes, but when it comes to their belief in intercession and invocation of saints and angels, they hold a very similar position with Rome.

 

[Brighid]

They believe in believe in invocation and intercession. Here are some quotes from the Council of Trent, Session XXV: “The Holy synod enjoins on all bishops and others who sustain the office and charge of teaching that ... they especially instruct the faithful diligently concerning the intercession and invocation of saints ...” And it is believed that: “The veneration and invocation of the holy angels and beatified souls are not in conflict with the law that God alone should be worshipped.”

EDIT: Sorry, my bad. It’s been a while since I commented in this thread and I when I replied just now, I had in mind the Roman Catholic Church, which is why the quote is from Trent (Roman Catholic). The Eastern Orthodox Church don’t have too many confessional writings, so it can be a little tricky to find explicit official quotes, but when it comes to their belief in intercession and invocation of saints and angels, they hold a very similar position with Rome.

So, I was concerned about the alleged "invoking" of angels and saints by the Eastern Orthodox church. I attended an EO service last Saturday and asked the priest about it. He said they absolutely do not invoke angels or saints and I also did not observe them doing so. This practice must be specific to Catholicism.

 

[Daniel9v9]

So, I was concerned about the alleged "invoking" of angels and saints by the Eastern Orthodox church. I attended an EO service last Saturday and asked the priest about it. He said they absolutely do not invoke angels or saints and I also did not observe them doing so. This practice must be specific to Catholicism.

I can appreciate your concern. There's probably a few different things at work here.

First of all, as mentioned, the Eastern Orthodox as a church body doesn't have much in the way of confessional writings. This can make it difficult to pin down exactly what they believe, teach and confess. Nonetheless, they hold that holy tradition is the norm for interpreting Scriptures, which is something that is more or less limited to the ecclesiastical deliverances of the time from 325 to 787 - that is, the Seven Ecumenical Councils. Anything beyond what was discussed in the councils or anything that the councils didn't make explicitly clear naturally becomes somewhat subject to interpretation. In other words, regional churches and priests may differ in thought.

Secondly, and to illustrate the above, a confessional document was made as a response to Calvinism in 1640, called The Orthodox Confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Eastern Church. My understanding is that this document does not have a universal appeal and subscription in the Eastern Orthodox Church. However, this document does use the terminology of "invocation of saints". Question 52 reads: "What, then, are we to think of the Invocation of Saints?" and then explains what this means in the Eastern Orthodox understanding.

The third and last thing I'd like to mention is that words hold different meanings to different people. For example, the word "invoke" may be understood differently even within the Eastern Orthdox Church. I certainly can't speak for the priest you talked with, and you probably want to listen to him with regards to Eastern Orthodox doctrine, but I do know that the Eastern Orthodox Church does use the expression of "invoking saints". I just did a quick google search for an Eastern Orthodox catechism, and one reads: "The Church has always taught the invocation of the saints, convinced they intercede for us before God in heaven. Having a prayer relationship with a saint is another way that we can gain help in our spiritual path to salvation in the Church." (Saint George Greek Orthodox Cathedral Catechism) Given that this is in a Baptist thread, needless to say, Baptists along with the Reformed, Lutheran and Anglican would disagree, as we believe that there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5

Hope you find what you're looking for!

 

[Andrew1988]

Could you or anyone in this thread explain to me what a Confessional Orthodox Church is? And how it differs from other Christian Protestant Churches?