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Orthodox Eucharistic Miracles

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MoNiCa4316

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:wave: Are there any Eucharistic miracles documented in the Orthodox church? I've heard that there are..does anyone have any information about this?

Also, I know the Catholic church has some miracles documented...what do you think of them? I know the EO church teaches that Catholic sacraments are not valid...but if so, why do they have these miracles? :confused: If they are merely bread and wine, nothing should happen to them...ever..

thanks! ~just trying to figure some things out, and curious.. :)

monica
 

MoNiCa4316

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By the way, I know that many of these miracles happen when people have a lack of faith in the Eucharist...however, not all. I've read of Eucharist miracles (in the Catholic church) where, for example, there wasn't enough wine for everyone, and it kinda.."multiplied"? like in the Bible ;)
 
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Silentchapel

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I don't think I ever heard of an Eucharistic miracle that was a "good" omen. Maybe once - I can't remember who it was, but this Turk was at the Liturgy and then he saw Angels descending with a Child to sacrifice It on the altar. The Turk was so shocked by what he saw, but he converted to Orthodoxy. I also remember this Muslim woman who insisted that she gets Communion. Priest told her: "On your head be it!" So he gave her Communion, and she shrieked: "What did you gave me? It tastes like blood!"
But when it comes to miracles of such nature, I always liked this story. Some people were gathering in a church where a prosphora (bread used for Communion) started to bleed. One man asked this pious fellow if he's coming to witness the miracle. He said: "Why should I? Christ Himself told us that bread and wine are His Body and Blood! I don't need a bleeding prosphora to prove it to me, Christ's word is more than enough." ;)
 
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buzuxi02

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:wave: Are there any Eucharistic miracles documented in the Orthodox church? I've heard that there are..does anyone have any information about this?

Also, I know the Catholic church has some miracles documented...what do you think of them? I know the EO church teaches that Catholic sacraments are not valid...but if so, why do they have these miracles? :confused: If they are merely bread and wine, nothing should happen to them...ever..

thanks! ~just trying to figure some things out, and curious.. :)

monica
In Orthodoxy there is no "Eucharistic Adoration" as in the RC, in such a service, a believer would expect that something miraculous can occur.

Of course the Eucharist is the medicine of immortality and also a medicine for the healing of both spiritual and physical. A person with faith should expect improvement by partaking of the Holy Eucharist.

A miracle of the Eucharist transforming into literal flesh and blood was covered in another forum, where some interesting tidbits were revealed. In the RC church there is a famous miracle known as the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano: Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

Basically in the 8th century thebread and wine were literally transformed into flesh and blood, and are still preserved as such to this day.

This phenomenon is also present in Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy though such a miracle is not neccesarily beneficial. When such a phenomenon occurs its meant that either the priest or monk or some laity have doubts over the real prescence.

In The Russian Orthodox service book of the Hieratikon (ROCOR- the priests prayerbook for various liturgies and also reccomendations for what priests should do in the event of unexpected occurences) says:

"If after the consecration of bread and wine a miracle is revealed; if the bread manifests the appearance of a child or the wine the appearance of blood, and if in a short time this appearance does not change: if they do not appear again in the form of bread and wine, but if they remain thus without change. Then let the priest not take communion because it is not the body and blood of Christ, but a miracle from God manifest only because of the lack of faith or some other reason".

I spoke to an OCA monk over this and he basically said the same. That if such an occurence, the Eucharist is not to be given, but set aside and call the bishop.
 
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buzuxi02

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In the 8th century theres a sermon attributed to St. Gregory of Dekapolis entitled, "Very Profitable and Most Pleasing in Many Ways, About a Vision Which A Sarracen Once Had and Who As A Result of This, Believed and Became Master For Our Lord Jesus Christ".

Its basically about a muslim prince who converted to Christianity after seeing a Eucharistic Miracle. The entire sermon can be found in the book "Orthodox Christians and Muslims" published by Holy Cross. The chapter is entitled "What an Infidel Saw that a Faithful Did Not".

To give a short summary; a muslim prince entered a church dedicated to Saint George. He ordered his servants to bring in his camels into the church so he can supervise them from the highest elevation in the church as they ate. The priests pleaded with the muslim to have respect and not bring the animals in but he would not listen. As the camels were let in they died.

The muslim prince decided to stay and see what went on. As the priest started the service of offering, he took the loaf of bread ready to be cut into tiny particles but all the prince saw was a child being slaughtered, its blood poured into a chalice and the child being cut up. At the Great Entrance he saw more clearly the child cut up into four pieces and blood inside the chailice which infuriated him. He wanted to kill the priest.
The prince became more rageful as he saw the communicants recieve the Eucharist, the prince only saw cannibalism.

Finally at the end of the liturgy the priest offered the muslim prince a piece of the antidoron. When the prince asked what it was, the priest replied saying, its of the bread which we celebrated the liturgy with. This enraged the prince telling the priest:

"Did you celebrate the liturgy from that? You dog, impure, filthy, killer!....Didnt I see you eating and drinking of the body and blood of the child, and that you even offered the same to the attendants!? They now have in their mouths pieces of flesh dripping blood.... Is this not what I saw?" The priest being ecstatic replied, "Yes, my lord, this is how it is, but myself being a sinner I cannot see such a mystery, only bread and wine.....Even the great and marvelous Fathers, the stars and teachers of the Church, like the divine Basil the Great and the memorable Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian, were unable to see this awesome and terrifying mystery, thus how can I?
The muslim prince simply responded by saying , As i have seen and as I have heard, great is the Faith of the Christians, So if you will Father, baptize me."

The above was a quick summary with portions edit out and paraphrased, the actual homily and commentary in the book i mentioned is like 18 pages long, but you get the gist of it.
 
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ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs

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I remember reading the story of a monk who secretly began to doubt the Body and Blood. Soon after, every time he went to receive communion it would turn to bloody flesh in the spoon and he couldn't receive it. He confessed his doubt and asked his SF why that happened. He was told that it was always Christ's Body and Blood but because of our weakness, He allowed it to retain the appearance and taste of bread and wine.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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I don't think I ever heard of an Eucharistic miracle that was a "good" omen. Maybe once - I can't remember who it was, but this Turk was at the Liturgy and then he saw Angels descending with a Child to sacrifice It on the altar. The Turk was so shocked by what he saw, but he converted to Orthodoxy. I also remember this Muslim woman who insisted that she gets Communion. Priest told her: "On your head be it!" So he gave her Communion, and she shrieked: "What did you gave me? It tastes like blood!"
But when it comes to miracles of such nature, I always liked this story. Some people were gathering in a church where a prosphora (bread used for Communion) started to bleed. One man asked this pious fellow if he's coming to witness the miracle. He said: "Why should I? Christ Himself told us that bread and wine are His Body and Blood! I don't need a bleeding prosphora to prove it to me, Christ's word is more than enough." ;)

Those are cool stories, Silentchapel :) thanks for sharing. Yea I agree that often times, Eucharistic miracles happen when people don't have enough faith, etc. But I've heard stories of miracles that were good, like that miracle I mentioned in my OP.
God does miracles when they are needed. ;)
 
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MoNiCa4316

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In Orthodoxy there is no "Eucharistic Adoration" as in the RC, in such a service, a believer would expect that something miraculous can occur.

yea I've heard some miracles happen during Adoration, not because the person had little faith but just for revelation, etc.

Of course the Eucharist is the medicine of immortality and also a medicine for the healing of both spiritual and physical. A person with faith should expect improvement by partaking of the Holy Eucharist.

I agree :thumbsup:

A miracle of the Eucharist transforming into literal flesh and blood was covered in another forum, where some interesting tidbits were revealed. In the RC church there is a famous miracle known as the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano: Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

Basically in the 8th century thebread and wine were literally transformed into flesh and blood, and are still preserved as such to this day.

This phenomenon is also present in Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy though such a miracle is not neccesarily beneficial. When such a phenomenon occurs its meant that either the priest or monk or some laity have doubts over the real prescence.

I think it's the same in the Catholic church, for example in Lanciano, the priest was doubting the real presence when it happened...

In The Russian Orthodox service book of the Hieratikon (ROCOR- the priests prayerbook for various liturgies and also reccomendations for what priests should do in the event of unexpected occurences) says:

"If after the consecration of bread and wine a miracle is revealed; if the bread manifests the appearance of a child or the wine the appearance of blood, and if in a short time this appearance does not change: if they do not appear again in the form of bread and wine, but if they remain thus without change. Then let the priest not take communion because it is not the body and blood of Christ, but a miracle from God manifest only because of the lack of faith or some other reason".

I spoke to an OCA monk over this and he basically said the same. That if such an occurence, the Eucharist is not to be given, but set aside and call the bishop.

oki :)
 
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MoNiCa4316

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In the 8th century theres a sermon attributed to St. Gregory of Dekapolis entitled, "Very Profitable and Most Pleasing in Many Ways, About a Vision Which A Sarracen Once Had and Who As A Result of This, Believed and Became Master For Our Lord Jesus Christ".

Its basically about a muslim prince who converted to Christianity after seeing a Eucharistic Miracle. The entire sermon can be found in the book "Orthodox Christians and Muslims" published by Holy Cross. The chapter is entitled "What an Infidel Saw that a Faithful Did Not".

To give a short summary; a muslim prince entered a church dedicated to Saint George. He ordered his servants to bring in his camels into the church so he can supervise them from the highest elevation in the church as they ate. The priests pleaded with the muslim to have respect and not bring the animals in but he would not listen. As the camels were let in they died.

The muslim prince decided to stay and see what went on. As the priest started the service of offering, he took the loaf of bread ready to be cut into tiny particles but all the prince saw was a child being slaughtered, its blood poured into a chalice and the child being cut up. At the Great Entrance he saw more clearly the child cut up into four pieces and blood inside the chailice which infuriated him. He wanted to kill the priest.
The prince became more rageful as he saw the communicants recieve the Eucharist, the prince only saw cannibalism.

Finally at the end of the liturgy the priest offered the muslim prince a piece of the antidoron. When the prince asked what it was, the priest replied saying, its of the bread which we celebrated the liturgy with. This enraged the prince telling the priest:

"Did you celebrate the liturgy from that? You dog, impure, filthy, killer!....Didnt I see you eating and drinking of the body and blood of the child, and that you even offered the same to the attendants!? They now have in their mouths pieces of flesh dripping blood.... Is this not what I saw?" The priest being ecstatic replied, "Yes, my lord, this is how it is, but myself being a sinner I cannot see such a mystery, only bread and wine.....Even the great and marvelous Fathers, the stars and teachers of the Church, like the divine Basil the Great and the memorable Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian, were unable to see this awesome and terrifying mystery, thus how can I?
The muslim prince simply responded by saying , As i have seen and as I have heard, great is the Faith of the Christians, So if you will Father, baptize me."

The above was a quick summary with portions edit out and paraphrased, the actual homily and commentary in the book i mentioned is like 18 pages long, but you get the gist of it.

that's awesome! :D
 
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MoNiCa4316

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btw, I just want to say that I'm not asking this because I don't believe in the Eucharist and want evidence for it in miracles...I feel like God has convicted me of the real presence, and I believe in it. I'm just wondering though if there are EO miracles out of curiousity ;)
 
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MoNiCa4316

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I remember reading the story of a monk who secretly began to doubt the Body and Blood. Soon after, every time he went to receive communion it would turn to bloody flesh in the spoon and he couldn't receive it. He confessed his doubt and asked his SF why that happened. He was told that it was always Christ's Body and Blood but because of our weakness, He allowed it to retain the appearance and taste of bread and wine.

That's interesting! yea I don't know if I would be able to take Communion if it looked like Christ's Body and Blood..maybe that is why He uses bread and wine, huh ;)
 
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buzuxi02

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This thread covers all the bases:

http://christianforums.com/t6601201
I read in another forum that Fathers from the Lavra Monastery visited Lanciano and believe it to be true. That the material enshrined there is flesh and blood transformed from bread and wine. This is partly because Lanciano was pre-schism which occured under the Basilian monks who were of the greek rite.

Also the tradition behind Lanciano is consistent with Orthodoxy, That it appeared as flesh and blood to an unbelieving monk.
Scroll to the third paragraph:
Lanciano - Eucharistic Miracle

Not to go off on a tangent, but the story of St Gregory Dekopolites dates to about the same time as the Lanciano miracle, which was during the latter half of the iconoclastic controversy. The RC link above mentions heresies that even bishops believed in. Gregory himself is primarily known for his fight against the iconoclasm heresy.
The Iconoclasts claimed, that the only icon of Jesus Christ the Church acknowledges is the Eucharist, not ones painted by hands.
In the 7th Ecumenical Council the iconodules responded to this argument made by the iconoclasts in the following:
"Thus it has been clearly demonstrated that nowhere did either the Lord or the Apostles or the Fathers called the bloodless sacrifice offered through the priest "an icon" but rather they called it "this very body" and "this very blood".

This would explain why such a phenomenon originated in the 8th century and why Orthodox theology accept such a phenomenon as a miracle for unbelieving faithful but not of the Eucharist since the sacrifice of the Eucharist is always bloodless.
 
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rusmeister

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As to Catholic or any other Communion, we would say only that we know where the grace of God is; we don't know where it isn't. If God Himself chose to bless a Catholic or other Eucharist outside of the Church, who are we to gainsay Him?

I'm no advocate of Universalism, but I do believe the mercy of God is greater than we think.
 
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ma2000

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Note: Catholic means Universal here. It's about the Orthodox Church. The book was written in the 6th century AD.

The Spiritual Meadow

Chapter XXIX - A miracle of the most holy EUCHARIST

About thirty miles from the city of Aegina in Cilicia there were two stylites about six miles away from each other. One of them belonged to the holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The other, even though he had been on his column for much longer, followed the wicked teachings of Severian, and in various heretical ways was in the habit of denouncing his Catholic colleague. However, inspired by God, the Catholic asked that a particle of the other's Communion might be sent to him. Overcome with joy, he thought that he had converted the Catholic, and sent it immediately, without hesitation. The Catholic took this particle sent to him by the heretical follower of Severian and put it into a pot of boiling water, where it very soon disintegrated. Then he took the holy Communion of the Catholic church and threw it in. The boiling pot became cool immediately, and the holy Communion remained whole and unblemished. He carefully kept it, and showed it to us when we visited him.

Chapter XXX - The Life of ISODORE a monk of Melitinensis, and another miracle of the most holy EUCHARIST

Dade is the trading centre of Cyprus. There is a monastery there called Philoxene. When we visited it we met a monk from Melitinensis called Isodore. We noticed that he was weeping and groaning unceasingly. People kept on asking him to quieten down a little and moderate his weeping, but he would not.

"I am a greater sinner," he said, "than anyone else since the beginning of time".

"Surely no one is without sin," we said to him, "but God alone."

"Truly, brothers," he replied, "I have never found any sinner like me in the whole human race, no greater sin than mine. And if you really want to know that I am telling the truth, listen to what my sin was, and please pray for me.

"I was a married man when I lived in the world, and we both held to the teachings of Severian. I came home one day to find that my wife was not there, and I was told that she had gone to a woman neighbour who was of the Catholic faith and religion in order to receive Communion. I ran quickly to try and stop her, but when I got to the house I found that she had already communicated. I was mad with rage, and seized her by the throat and made her vomit up the sacred Communion. I picked up the holy particle and threw it away into a dungheap. Shortly afterwards I noticed that that holy Communion had taken on a brilliantly shining appearance. After two days, without a word of a lie, I saw a sort of a half-clothed Ethiopian man (virum quasi Aethiopem semicinctiis vestitum) who said to me: 'You and I are both condemned to an identical punishment.'

"'Who are you, then,' I asked.

"'I am the one who struck the face of him who made us all, the Lord Jesus Christ, during his passion.'

"And this is why I am incapable of moderating my weeping."

Chapter LXXIX - The great and astonishing miracle of the most holy EUCHARIST, in the time of Dionysius the bishop of Seleucia.

When we came to Seleucia we called on abbot Theodore, the bishop of that city. He told us the following story:

This is something that happened under my predecessor, Dionysius of holy memory, bishop of this city. There was a businessman in the city, very rich, and very religious, though a heretic, for he was a follower of Severus. [465-538, Monophysite Patriarch of Antioch]. He had a servant who was a faithful communicant of the holy and apostolic Church, and according to the custom of that province on Maundy Thursday (die Sancto Coenae Dominicae) he received Communion, wrapped it in a fair linen cloth and put it in a safe. It so happened, however, that after Easter this man of faith was sent to Constantinople on business and gave the key of the safe to his master, forgetting that he had left the holy Communion in it.

The master opened the safe one day and found the linen cloth with the holy particles of Communion wrapped up in it. He was worried about this and did not quite know what to do with them. He was reluctant to consume them, seeing that they were of the holy Catholic Church, whereas he was a follower of Severus. So he put them back in the safe, thinking that his servant would consume them when he came back.

But when Maundy Thursday came and the servant had still not come back he thought that perhaps he should burn them, rather than keep them there for a second year. But when he opened the safe he found that the holy particles had germinated, producing stalks and ears of corn. He was overcome with fear and trembling, picked up the holy particles, and together with his whole household shouting Kyrie eleison ran to the holy church, and to the most holy and venerable bishop Dionysius. This great and terrible miracle, exceeding anything that might be thought or reasoned about, or invented, was witnessed not by one or two or three or even several more, but by the whole church, citizens and peasants, natives and visitors, travellers by land and sea, men and women, old men and children, young men and seniors, masters and servants, rich and poor, princes and subjects, wise and foolish, virgins and monks, widows and married women, rulers and ruled. They too shouted Kyrie eleison, though some praised God in other ways, but all truly gave thanks to God for his ineffable miracles. And many who believed because of the miracle were added to the holy Catholic and apostolic Church.

Chapter LXXXVI - Another ANCHORITE from the same monastery, who died immediately after receiving holy Communion

Abba Egiarius told us this story:

I left Aega after the solemnity [not specified] when the winter had become a bit more severe, and came to the monastery of Scopulus. This is what happened when I was there. There was an anchorite living a solitary life in those parts who used to come on Sundays to receive the sacred mysteries. Only once did he cause scandal when for five weeks he stayed away, not coming to the monastery as was his usual custom, which distressed the brothers of the monastery very much. but on the Sunday when I was there he did turn up. The brothers of the monastery were glad to see him, prostrated themselves and asked pardon, as he likewise prostrated himself and asked pardon of them, so restoring charity all round. Then when the anchorite had received the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ he went to the middle of the church and fell down dead, even though he had previously shown no sign of any illness. The fathers of the monastery realised that the anchorite had foreseen the day of his death, which is why he had come so that he might pass to the Lord having nothing against anyone.

http://www.monachos.net/library/John_Moschus,_The_Spiritual_Meadow,_Page_1
 
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