Open Brethren

[Bskillet]

I posted this also to the Looking for a Church section.

Has anyone here had any experience with an Open (Plymouth) Brethren congregation? What are they like? Are they legalistic? Are they open to Christians who don't accept all of their beliefs (specifically, dispensationalism)?

I posted this here do to the similarity of their ecclesiology to house churches, and the fact that a lot of house church folks have Brethren backgrounds or experiences.

 

[Johnnz]

They are usually very committed people who follow biblical precepts. But like all groups they can vary from church to church.

In the past they have been somewhat legalistic, and many were strongly influenced by Darby, dispensationalism and a certain end time teaching as are many evangelical and pentecostal churches today.

I have known many wonderful people from the Brethren churches over the years.

John
NZ

 

[Theophilus1128]

Sadly, the brethren movement fell into denominationalism just like most every other Christian movement of the last 500 years. At the outset the idea was to meet together only on the ground of being in Christ. The division into different churches was simply based on locality. Unfortunately, divisions arose among this group, causing the split into the so called "exclusives" and "opens". I personally side more with the "Open Brethren", both are, in my opinion, far superior to any other denominational group because of their emphasis on body function and moving away from a passive, spectating laity. As I said earlier though, they both fell into being satisfied with simply being another Christian denomination rather than a movement toward unity. An excellent book on this subject is The Local Assembly by GH Lang. I would encourage prayerfully seeking involvement with any brothers from either of these groups, but I would not suggest seeking membership with either, since both seem to have become denominational.

-Theophilus

 

[OzSpen]

Theophilus1128

I personally side more with the "Open Brethren", both are, in my opinion, far superior to any other denominational group because of their emphasis on body function and moving away from a passive, spectating laity.

My parents, who have now gained their eternal reward, worshipped in an Open Brethren assembly. You mention the emphasis on body function. However, the whole body does not function when the assembly gathers. Only the men can engage in public ministry. They close down women in open public ministry when the church gathers. The exceptions are when a woman addresses women.

I Cor. 11:5 could not be practised by women in an Open Brethren assembly. Only half of the body of believers (the males) can participate in open ministry when the assembly gathers.

 

[1watchman]

I was with Open Brethren for ten years, but I studied their history and found they were a division from the revival of 1827, so I sought out the original testimony from that time. One can read more about this on the internet at such as Brethren from 1827.

- 1watchman

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I was with Open Brethren for ten years, but I studied their history and found they were a division from the revival of 1827, so I sought out the original testimony from that time. One can read more about this on the internet at such as Brethren from 1827.

- 1watchman

The mission to china sprang from the brethern of 1827
Plymouth Brethren - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the most wellknown evangelist from that mission was Watchman Nee
Watchman Nee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

to read online Watchman Nee's books
Online Publications - Additional Titles by Watchman Nee

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The mission to china sprang from the brethern of 1827
Plymouth Brethren - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the most wellknown evangelist from that mission was Watchman Nee
Watchman Nee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

to read online Watchman Nee's books
Online Publications - Additional Titles by Watchman Nee

Watchman Nee's teachings are from the authentic home churches.
The new movement from the china mission home churches is 'Back to Jerusalem"

Back To Jerusalem

Back To Jerusalem movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but even they have been perverted to affiliate with all churches thru Promise Keepers

The Road to Jerusalem - About Us - Promise Keepers

For true house church beginnings and their teachings I highly recommend the books of Watchman Nee
in the post quoted.

 

[1watchman]

I was with Open Brethren for ten years, but I studied their history and found they were a division from the revival of 1827, so I sought out the original testimony from that time. One can read more about this on the internet at such as Brethren from 1827.

- 1watchman

Let me just add a note here for clarity. I am still with the so-called "brethren movement of 1827", but I am not with the various splinter groups. The Nee-Lee group (which was mentioned above), which descended from the Raven-Taylor quite legal group; and the Open Br. which became much like the various modern denoms; but I am happily with those who take no name and try to keep that principle of esteeming only the Scripture, which was taught in the revival of 1827. One can read something on this on the internet by addressing Brethren From 1827, which might help.

- 1Watchman

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

ftr I don't affiliate with anything but a bible and concordence. Nee's teachings differ from Lee's corperate teachings but they still teach more basics than anything I've ever read.
It makes me laugh to see people come on a house church forum and push denominational dogmas.

 

[1watchman]

You are right, Maid, and my comments were only to clarify what was being said about the so-called Brethren Movement. We should speak on a different forum.

- 1 Watchman

 

[Hermit Green]

Theophilus1128
However, the whole body does not function when the assembly gathers. Only the men can engage in public ministry. They close down women in open public ministry when the church gathers. The exceptions are when a woman addresses women.

I Cor. 11:5 could not be practised by women in an Open Brethren assembly. Only half of the body of believers (the males) can participate in open ministry when the assembly gathers.

Hi all. This is my first post in this forum. I currently fellowship with an Open Brethren assembly. I would point out that each church functions independently, and that some brethren assemblies now permit (and encourage) women to speak in church meetings.

I Cor. 11:5 does not suggest that women can pray or prophesy in the church; it just says that when a woman prays or prophesies she should cover her head. I assure you women in open brethren assembles do pray and prophesy, and many of them cover their heads when they do so, so I Cor. 11:5 does happen.

However, it does seem to me that on the basis of what the Bible consistently teaches we may in fact have a patriarchal God, and perhaps we need to come to terms with that.

 

[Johnnz]

That's more of a projection of our viewpoint onto God. God is beyond gender as we understand that concept. Father, He etc are terms we use, and God accommodates, to have some concepts that enable us to relate more meaningfully. Plus, we do have a patriarchal exegetical heritage in our mental filters too.

John
NZ

 

[Hermit Green]

Not quite with you there. God is not beyond gender, He is the inventor of it. He made us male and female, and throughout the Bible He gives us instructions for men, and instructions for women.

 

[Johnnz]

Not quite with you there. God is not beyond gender, He is the inventor of it. He made us male and female, and throughout the Bible He gives us instructions for men, and instructions for women.

We are male and female in that we are physical beings with physical differentiation. God is not gender defined by such characteristics.

John
NZ

 

[Hermit Green]

Yes, I quite agree that God is not Himself limited to one gender. I am only saying that God created us male and female, and He has given a leadership role in the family and in the church to the male gender.

 

[1watchman]

Right Hermit! We should also appreciate that when a true "born again" believer goes to Heaven there will be a Man there waiting for us ---the Lord Jesus. As mankind we will see and be wedded to the "Man of Calvary" as we know. God is a Spirit, and He manifested Himself to us as a man (note John 14:1-11). In Heaven we will enjoy being in the Father's house, and we will talk with Him as did the Patriarchs of old, but we will behold the Son.

 

[OzSpen]

1 Corinthians 14:26 states:

What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up (NIV)

So, when the church gathers, brothers and sisters have the opportunity for "each of you" to engage in public ministry of the gifts of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:1-3:

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort (NIV).

All are encouraged to desire the gifts and especially the gift of prophecy. Therefore, prophecy takes place when the church gathers.

1 Corinthians 14:39-40,

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Brothers and sisters are to be eager to prophesy when the church gathers but this should happen in an orderly way. Sounds like there was a problem at Corinth that was being addresses.

It is clear from these passages that prophesy takes place in the local church. So 1 Corinthians 11:5 is to be applied to the local church:

But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

Women are allowed and encouraged to prophesy when the church gathers.

What happened on the day of Pentecost? It was a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy:

No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

The outpouring of the Holy Spirit meant that women and men had ministries - public ministries - some of which were when the church gathers (e.g. prophecy).

In light of this biblical emphasis, I find it a contradiction to close women in ministry when the church gathers.

As for women being forbidden to teach men, my exegesis of 1 Timothy 2:9-15 finds that to be an instruction to Timothy that was restricted to the Ephesian church and surrounding churches that were experiencing problems to which this Scripture was addressed. See, 'Must women never teach men in the church?'

Sincerely in Christ,
Oz

 

[Hermit Green]

I am trying to answer you, OzSpen, but I keep getting the message that I must remove the links from my reply. Only thing is, there are no links in my text. What gives?

 

[Hermit Green]

OzSpen, I agree with most of the points you have made above. Whilst I agree with your comment that what occurred on the day of Pentecost was the beginning of a fulfillment of prophecy (Joel), I can think of no text that says this was the beginning of the Christian church, and therefore speaks to church practice. For the most part I agree with your comments about the ministry of women in the church. There are one or two passages which suggest that women teaching men has a wider scope than being a recommended practice for a couple of churches experiencing problems - some of the reasons given seem to indicate that this passage has a wider implication.

In connection with Brethren churches, remember that they are each autonomous and gather to Christ alone; therefore, there are many differences in the way they function individually. In some Brethren churches women are not restricted from exercising ministries at all, so please don't tar them all with the same brush. There are changes afoot.

 

[OzSpen]

I am trying to answer you, OzSpen, but I keep getting the message that I must remove the links from my reply. Only thing is, there are no links in my text. What gives?

That's something that the moderators need to attend to. Why don't you send a message to one of them?

Oz