On dancing..godly and ungodly or joyful?

[Goodbook]

A poster bought up the topic of dancing and im just interested in what the bible says and i guess your own experiences with God on this.

Im sorry that some ppl took my thread on d&d the wrong way and got mighty offended as if i was personally attacking their hobby. Its not like that at all. I do think its dark tho and not a good thing to be deeply involved in, as was my friend. So I was just concerned for her. And not really sure the right way to approach it. But God got through to her I guess, i didnt really have to say anything.

Well dancing. I know alot of it is wrong..or what passes for dancing these days, and some of it is absolutely beautiful. last year I started beginners ballet as had the time and Id never done it before as a little girl so thought Id try. I had to give it up when i found a full time job but it was kinda fun if challenging.

Anyway, I never really took it too seriously and probably was hopeless at it but..im thinking of how some are just so dedicated its amazing, yet there is a really dark side to ballet as well that I had no idea about..as you dont think so when you see it performed. Its not just like in that black swan movie.

Its ppl starving themselves, injuring themselves, having no life outside of ballet, stage mothers. If you dont have the natural talent and dedication, or even if you do, its very tough. Also lots of drug addicted prima ballerinas. Not the majority but enough to be a concern. I used to flat with a lady who taught ballroom. She said she did ballet but had to give up as takes over your whole life.
Also one time met this other lady at a christian outreach free lunch thing and she was telling me she used to be into ballet, like a pro, but gave it all up to serve the Lord.

So anyway..comments, scripture? I think dancing is fun but the minute it becomes a prideful performance or obscene it is not a good thing.. In fact, it could be demonic. Dancing as worship as another thing im kinda interested in. But from what ive seen few ppl actually do this and most think rock music is something you can actually dance to. I beg to differ. When God calls me to worship him in spirit and in truth, often its not even dancing although it can be im just down on my knees bowing down and so humbled and nobody is even looking at me.

 

[graceandpeace]

Acting as the moral police to yourself or anyone else is an exhausting exercise - and leaves little room left for the Gospel. (Not saying that's what you're doing).

Dancing can be beautiful, or fun, or provocative, or anything - let each person make up their own mind regarding what they should/shouldn't do.

 

[Quasicentennial]

Genetics plays a big part in dancing and sports, and individuals would go to extremes such as hormonal drugs of some kind for an energy boost more than once, and that can be dangerous knowing that the human body needs rest for cell repair:.
To have a spotlight perfect life reputation can only exist when Jesus returns and transforms us so that we can experience spiritual wealth as in Jehovah's wisdom, and physical performance as in sports and dancing (recreation) :.
Of course, Jesus knows and understands our individual positive and negative experiences in all sorts of human activities, whether it is office or construction work, athletics or dancing, education and technical training:.
It will definitely be supernaturally focused on health and safety once we live in paradise on a new Earth where Jesus will be our future-coming world-reigning king and moderator, so that everyone will be supervised with whatever personal or social activity is performed:.
To experience spiritual wealth and success without crime, violence, disease and disability - can only exist in the very near future with our Lord Jesus and Jehovah our Father, the universe-maker.;'*';.

 

[Odetta]

Our church has a Sole to Soul ministry, and they perform occasionally in our services. It's beautiful and provides a visual picture to the audio going on in the music behind it. As with anything, dance can be used to glorify God or not. David danced in the streets - naked or close to it - to glorify God, and one of his wives - the M one, I think - was disciplined by God with barrenness for not liking it.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I agree with you Goodbook on ballet - it's a beautiful dance form but the culture for it, like modeling and other things similar, can be quite physically and spiritually destructive. It's not the dance itself, but the lifestyle for some. Sad.

There is of course some dancing that is questionable, especially some of the seductive moves in clubs, but overall dancing is a healthy expression that some turn into an outright art form. God definitely blesses some with talent, just like singing and musical instruments.

 

[grandvizier1006]

I've heard so many opinions on dancing. From the Baptists of past centuries to the "Christian" school I'm going to with a (most likely useless) dance major, this is one of those gray areas the Bible doesn't bother talking about.

Personally, I'm ok with that, since I'm not coordinated and will NEVER be a dancer of any sort (except maybe the crazy, erratic kind at some silly point in my life) but this is obviously a serious question to ponder for other people.

I suppose I'll make an attempt to argue for both sides, since I suppose I can be neutral about this. On one hand, yeah, dancing nowadays is really sexual, and can be really sinful. As a person who never understood the over-sexualized social norms of my peers, I never got a chance to "grind" with a girl--I went to one dance with one, waited for a slow song...and it never came, so we never danced. And I never saw her again Although it was homecoming so everybody just brought some date and there weren't many serious relationships

And then a few years after that twerking became popular. I can see why other people would want to WATCH this because they would, well...enjoy it But I can't see why anyone would actually enjoy DOING something like this.

By engaging in this sort of behavior, you're really just expressing sexual intents non-verbally. Most dancing nowadays is what my eccentric grandmother would call, "dancin' in the FLESH!" (emphasis added). And while she may be eccentric she has a point: a lot of dancing nowadays is just plain dirty. And frankly, I didn't want to engage in dirty dancing with that girl I went to homecoming with because even though she was pretty (a bunch of guys asked who she was), I just didn't want to grind with her or anything. It just seemed wrong, doing this to some girl I didn't know very well in a public place, never mind if everyone else was doing it. I was only on a date with her because my parents had arranged it, really, not that I didn't enjoy it. And even if I HAD known her I don't know if I would have been able to do something like that without feeling guilty about it.

For me to have done that would have been publicly expressing a desire to have sex with her. That was just plain wrong and lustful, and she didn't deserve that.

And for all of you girls that like twerking, if you do that in front of a guy, well, he may not literally think you want to have sex with him, but if you're getting him...excited than he's going to interpret that a certain way.

On the other hand, most people who engage in other forms of dancing do so to express some sort of affection for their partner or just to be a part of some troupe that enjoys all the movement and activity and really wants to have fun. That's what dancing has been primarily about, anyway

But I think it's been taken a bit too far. Like that first poster said, some girls get insane trying to starve themselves. Have you ever seen a show like Dance Moms, how strict Abby is on them? (And she's fat and doesn't even have a daughter, what right does she have to be fussy?)

And at the college I plan on going to, it's supposed to be this Christian college where you can get a dance major (although I'm going there for other reasons since I can't dance). Uh...how does dancing please the Lord? Do you really think if you're a dance and you're a Christian that you're "dancing for the Lord"? Do you really think God is pleased with your dancing ability? Your some tiny human, running around and moving your body, and it's only because HE MADE you to be able to do that. He didn't make everybody a dancer, that much I can say

I have difficulty seeing how a ballerina leads anyone to Christ--even after somebody explained to me how it supposedly glorifies God! Can't you just admit that it's a talent God gave you that you can use to connect with non-Christians with the same talent? Don't make some pretense of how dancing is always "for the Lord".

I don't think dancing is inherently evil, but just don't idolize it, sexualize it, or make a big deal out of it. I don't think it's demonic, either--just something that can be used for good or for bad.

 

[Goodbook]

good responses..esp last one. You really thought about this.

Well, I have seen the movie 'footloose' and know the baptists are known for disapproving of any kind of dancing. Like a blanket ban or something.

But...in the bible, there is some scripture that says they had a dance in the OT and it was actually meant for the maidens to catch men. I can't remember the exact passage but it was not the Israelites were disobeying actually it was God's idea.
And yes David danced for joy and Michal disapproved.

when I was learning ballet, I had two classmates. Both I guess you could say pagans/heathen unbelievers but one of them said she had a son who was born again christian, cos he was getting married and it was in church and she didn't go obviously. The lifestyle of my classmates, not to judge, just saying, was of artist/musician so..one of them had about 3 husbands and 5 children of all different fathers. It really confused me cos she would be talking about them and wasn't sure what she was referring to.

I don't think I want to get into that lifestyle where I live for art. Cos its very ephemeral. The word of the Lord endures forever. All flesh is grass and fades away...

In my previous church I've just left ..they were very into performing arts and calling it holy or godly and saying it was for the Lord. But I could see some of it wasn't really. It was prideful and there was one time at christmas where it was really fleshy and inappropriate, and I was ashamed to be sitting in this church. Also they had really LOUD music with heavy drumbeats. And it gave me a headache. So I think they were idolising the music.

you really don't even need music to dance, if you are joyful and happy and singing your whole life is a dance anyway. I am in no way a pro dancer..I have not the discipline or the desire to perform in front of people. But I love dancing. It is good exercise.

as for twerking have no idea what that's meant to be. I don't think I even call that dancing just kind of twitching around. I do know that some rhtyhms can carry you away and some is hypnotic. But I think if you are saved and born again you would not ever dance like that.
yes I agree some dancing can get people excited..I suppose there IS a place for that. Romance etc. But it's really only meant for one person and that's your beloved or betrothed. IMHO.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I have difficulty seeing how a ballerina leads anyone to Christ--even after somebody explained to me how it supposedly glorifies God! Can't you just admit that it's a talent God gave you that you can use to connect with non-Christians with the same talent? Don't make some pretense of how dancing is always "for the Lord".

I wasn't - a lot of dancing doesn't 'lead anyone to Christ.'. Some ballerinas (or any other dance) do it as their vocation, some their hobby, some a more interesting way to exercise. Not seeing the issue.

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[Goodbook]

I think it takes away your focus on God. When I was dancing I wasnt really thinking about pleasing God I was too busy trying to please my teacher and be physically correct and perfect. I also paid for lessons. It was fun and challenging in but also parts of it were not fun and I did not enjoy the feeling of being looked at and graded for my body. I was not able to express myself freely in ballet either had to follow a set routine. And it was unnatural to stretch and be en pointe and all those ouvret postions all the time.

To me it was not dancing in the fullest sense cos dancing is something that comes out of your soul I guess as an expression of joy and cant really be manufactured. Or maybe i just found ballet really hard. Anyway nothing of God in it really..For myself I felt that I had stepped into this other world where God was not important and pleasing men was.

 

[Goodbook]

For me it was a relief to quit. To be honest.
Even though maybe i could have mastered a dance. But I think its just being discerning of what pleases God and what doesnt. i could be a prima ballerina and win all the accolades in the world but that would not bring glory to God if i was just this beautiful dancer and harboured darkness in my soul.
Thats why sometimes I think athletes who say they win and give glory to God are being a bit disingenous. well what about the people who dont win, doesnt God love them, just as much as the winners? After all, its not even anything we do by our own efforts. Or maybe they worship a different god, like the god of sport.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Goodbook--You have the right idea here, understanding that you can let your talent consume you or justify it by saying that you're doing it for the Lord when you really aren't. A fleshy, sensualized Christmas dance is just wrong

Although I think there's a way to do it without getting too pre-occupied with it. I knew some people that were in these local dance troupe thingies, and they had to participate in all of these...un-Christian dance numbers. Something about doing weird dances to crappy pop hits. Just don't let yourself be objectified, and don't become a perfectionist about it. I've had my own bouts of perfectionism, and it never works out in the end. Do NOT strain yourself trying to be "the best", should you considering dancing again.

But I think in your situation it was best to get out. It's good that you don't want to lie to yourself and say that your "pleasing the Lord" with your talent when really you're just trying to be good at something and have fun doing it. There's nothing wrong with having fun or having a hobby or interest, but when that interest drives you insane with stress and makes you violate your morals than you've gone too far. If I were you I'd maybe look into finding some "Christian" dance troupe, and sort of check them out first to see if they're worth joining. Of course, if they just have a label and aren't really Christians you need to be discerning and recognize that. And if they make you do something you know would sexualize you, just opt out. If they kick you out, well...just be sure that you have some other job and that you haven't devoted all of your resources to one thing.

And to JCFantasy--I wasn't accusing you of saying that, I was just saying that I've heard other people say something similar, and they genuinely believe it. In their cases, they may very well be "dancing for the Lord", but as Christians you're supposed to glorify God in everything that you do. IMO, either you explicitly do so in some way, or you admit that your hobby is secular and that even though it COULD be used to make friends and bring them to Christ you're primarily doing it because you personally enjoy it. I just would like it if people were more honest about their priorities and not lie about being Christians.

 

[Goodbook]

I don't really have any talent lol just dance for the joy of it but I have had people tell me I'm really good, I mean I just seem to know what to do and make up my own dances when I feel the music is really good and I have a kind of story to tell, like maybe the lyrics are illustrating an idea, kind of like more musical numbers on broadway or movies.

But it's just a personal thing I cant really copy or tell anyone else how to dance or choreograph something. With me its more like, you dance cos you love it and yes there are some moves I can show you but you don't have to be all in sync like a marching troupe and show off about it. And its fun cos you don't have a set dance you have to remember in your head.

And I am in no way gymnastic or do anything like they would do in ballroom or latin where they lift people up high and do those dip things, and wear flashy costumes..though it is nice to wear a dress or clothing that allows movement. Fred Astaire could dance with a wooden broom...

 

[JCFantasy23]

And to JCFantasy--I wasn't accusing you of saying that, I was just saying that I've heard other people say something similar, and they genuinely believe it. In their cases, they may very well be "dancing for the Lord", but as Christians you're supposed to glorify God in everything that you do. IMO, either you explicitly do so in some way, or you admit that your hobby is secular and that even though it COULD be used to make friends and bring them to Christ you're primarily doing it because you personally enjoy it. I just would like it if people were more honest about their priorities and not lie about being Christians.

Ah, ok then, I must have misunderstood that paragraph and thought it was directed to me. Thanks for clearing it up.

Personally I've always wanted to learn different forms of dance and a friend and I are wanting to sign up for classes next year. I especially want to learn tap dancing if lessons are available, and maybe ballroom dancing. True that I'm not picking it with the goal of converting people to Christianity or as a worship, but I guess I view hobbies differently than some here. I think hobbies like this are healthy and lead to positivity in the person.

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[Goodbook]

I think if it is clean and the music is not dirty (lots of it these days are) and you are not doing it competitively or to perform, then it is a good way to interact socially.

It's not fun to watch a dance being performed and not able to join in. I think everyone can dance and should be able to! If you can move your body...you can dance.
It should not be this exclusive thing or something you have to pay for.

 

[Sketcher]

I should take salsa lessons again. Practicing that helped grow me as a person.

 

[Goodbook]

am going to send a christmas card to my ballet teacher all the same. She taught me a lot of things. I don't know if there's any such thing as christian ballet. But I do know that there's a ballet set to Charles Dickens Christmas Carol and also Nutcracker, about christmas...don't know if any ballets have any christian themes..they tend to be fairy tales or about magic or tragedies and romances.

 

[parsley]

The issues with high discipline for the craft of ballet is much like the military, or full-time school, or other things we pour ourselves into. It can take over who we are, and make it hard to find boundary lines. I've known some dancers too, who describe it the way you did.

Perfecting a skill is good, but as you say it takes over our lives -- and it seems God values who we are enough to want us to see our souls and personalities as having more value than our skills. A person should be able to pursue a ballet career without giving up their souls, ideally.

The people you mentioned had to leave it, partially because it was hard to back away gradually. Intimidation comes from people who accuse them of not working hard enough; self-criticism; inability to reach success without perfection; peers wanting to stay disciplined and not distracted by less committed friends.

It seems to hit similar areas of the brain that cult issues do, without quite being defined as wrong. Which could make the decision harder; dancing becomes a part of a person.

As for general dance and Christianity, I think we know when we're doing something wrong or pushing the edge. Hopefully! Dance sometimes puts us in a mood or position where we might express things more boldly -- flirt with someone we were afraid to flirt with, get closer than we normally would.

The real problem I see is when people take themselves out of their normal responsible persona, and do things under a "just dancing" umbrella. Saying it doesn't matter how they act. Some of what we see on music videos would lead to an arrest in real life, for assault or sexual misconduct, or abuse.

Most dancers seem to do it because they love moving, controlling movements, expressing themselves kinetically, or making a living from an activity they love.

People who watch dance often objectify, imagine more about the dancers, and can get quite lecherous.

Some people are happy to watch the flow of movement, the feats of skill, the tension or story that is told through movement... but we can't guarantee that an audience has completely pure intents.

Scriptures:

'Dance' StudyLight.org

'Dancing' - StudyLight.org

'Dancer' - StudyLight.org

 

[Goodbook]

Hmm seems on many occasions in the Bible there was dancing to timbrels or tambourines, also flutes?!
Maybe should get myself a tambourine??

jingle bells,jingle bells...

 

[Goodbook]

Lol reminds me of hare krishnas.

 

[parsley]

Not a fan of tambourines. Get a flute!