Ohio Starting to fund the Building of Religious Schools

[Stephen3141]

In an Unprecedented Move, Ohio Is Funding the Construction of Private Religious Schools

The state is giving millions in taxpayer dollars directly to private schools to help them renovate and expand their campuses. It may be the next frontier in the push to increase the use of school vouchers, proponents say.

www.propublica.org

School vouchers, that parents can use to send their students to private
(religious) schools, have become VERY popular. To the degree that
some have objected that the "flight" of religious students to private
schools, is threatening the quality of the public schools.

There are a number of reasons why Ohio is starting to do this --
read the article. One is the limited capacity of public schools.

While the radical MAGA solution is to eliminate the Department of Education, and
(I suppose) give all the public schools to be controlled by local school boards,
governed by citizens, Christians need to carefully consider the issues at state,
and not get involved in the radical (by perhaps emotionally pleasing) options.
---------- ----------
In America, we have "freedom of religion", but if we abuse that, certain groups
will want to impose THEIR CONCEPT OF RELIGION on everyone else.

Should Christians support laws, that could be used, if the majority of American
voters were of a non-Christian persuasion, to impose OTHER religious options
on American Christians? There is a lot of evidence that those proposing
"Christian Nationalism" have not thought this issue through, in the light of
past historical examples (in the European Enlightenment) where different
countries and different monarchs imposed "Christian Nationalism" on their
own country. For 100 years in the European Enlightenment, Christian
Nationalism reigned. The big problem was that the Christian groups in
Europe could not agree on thich flavor of Christianity should be imposed in
each country. Catholic Christianity? Lutheran Christianity? Reformed
Christianity? All these options were tried in different countries, and the result
was bitter and brutal warfare for 100 years, as one Christian group slaughtered
another Christian group.

In America, those who are favorable to "Christian Nationalism" also tend to
be Protestant Fundamentalists, and anti-intellectual. This is not a religious
platform that has much use for the historical Christian liberal arts education, that
also teaches core philosophical subjects, and the modern sciences, and history.

IF a state ceases to be able to build new schools to meet the needs of public K12
education, and starts to fund religious schools being built, Christians need to be
very careful what the core curriculum of these schools is.

The second big point is that these religious schools need to have qualified teachers,
to teach this core curriculum. Funding schools that are run by a religius group, is VERY
different than funding religious education. Math is math, Chemistry is chemistry.
Teaching language skills, is teaching language skills. Formal logic is formal logic.
But teaching a specific system of theology, is NOT material that is shared by all
Christian groups. Many religious groups that are attracted to Christian nationalism,
don't even accept the Nicene Creed as being core Christian material. Nor, do they
accept formal logic, as a foundation of thinking about both religiious and non-religious
subjects. This is why they are VERY susceptible to believing conspiracy theories
(formal reasoning, and the careful examination of evidence, is the enemy of conspiracy
theories).
---------- ----------

I have no problem with a state subsidizing the building and running of religious
schools, IF those schools hold to a rigorous curricula that corresponds to a
Christian liberal arts education.

However, if the funding initiative is hijacked by anti-intellectual, conspiracy theory
lovers, then the resulting schools and educational curricula will more resemble
a school run by the Taliban, than an orthodox Christian school.

And THAT, would be a huge mistake, undercutting freedom of religion
in America.

 

[Larniavc]

Should this also be opened up to Islamic schools?

 

[Desk trauma]

Paging the satanic temple, your presence has been requested in Ohio.

 

[Larniavc]

Paging the satanic temple, your presence has been requested in Ohio.

Silly goose. Freedom of religion does not mean just anyone can faith schools. There are laws you know?

 

[o_mlly]

To the degree that
some have objected that the "flight" of religious students to private
schools, is threatening the quality of the public schools.

My understanding is the flight is not just of "religious" students but all students for whom the public schools are failing because the public education's "quality" is not threatened but is already dismal.

 

[bèlla]

I have no problem with a state subsidizing the building and running of religious
schools, IF those schools hold to a rigorous curricula that corresponds to a
Christian liberal arts education.

The state isn't obligated to honor your preferences or fund them. When parents want a curriculum that isn't usually available they have three options.

Find a school that offers it.
Homeschool their children.
Hire a governess or tutor.

When you don't like what's offered you go in your pocket or do it yourself. A Christian liberal education isn't a right. It's a privilege.

~bella

 

[dogs4thewin]

In an Unprecedented Move, Ohio Is Funding the Construction of Private Religious Schools

The state is giving millions in taxpayer dollars directly to private schools to help them renovate and expand their campuses. It may be the next frontier in the push to increase the use of school vouchers, proponents say.

www.propublica.org

School vouchers, that parents can use to send their students to private
(religious) schools, have become VERY popular. To the degree that
some have objected that the "flight" of religious students to private
schools, is threatening the quality of the public schools.

There are a number of reasons why Ohio is starting to do this --
read the article. One is the limited capacity of public schools.

While the radical MAGA solution is to eliminate the Department of Education, and
(I suppose) give all the public schools to be controlled by local school boards,
governed by citizens, Christians need to carefully consider the issues at state,
and not get involved in the radical (by perhaps emotionally pleasing) options.
---------- ----------
In America, we have "freedom of religion", but if we abuse that, certain groups
will want to impose THEIR CONCEPT OF RELIGION on everyone else.

Should Christians support laws, that could be used, if the majority of American
voters were of a non-Christian persuasion, to impose OTHER religious options
on American Christians? There is a lot of evidence that those proposing
"Christian Nationalism" have not thought this issue through, in the light of
past historical examples (in the European Enlightenment) where different
countries and different monarchs imposed "Christian Nationalism" on their
own country. For 100 years in the European Enlightenment, Christian
Nationalism reigned. The big problem was that the Christian groups in
Europe could not agree on thich flavor of Christianity should be imposed in
each country. Catholic Christianity? Lutheran Christianity? Reformed
Christianity? All these options were tried in different countries, and the result
was bitter and brutal warfare for 100 years, as one Christian group slaughtered
another Christian group.

In America, those who are favorable to "Christian Nationalism" also tend to
be Protestant Fundamentalists, and anti-intellectual. This is not a religious
platform that has much use for the historical Christian liberal arts education, that
also teaches core philosophical subjects, and the modern sciences, and history.

IF a state ceases to be able to build new schools to meet the needs of public K12
education, and starts to fund religious schools being built, Christians need to be
very careful what the core curriculum of these schools is.

The second big point is that these religious schools need to have qualified teachers,
to teach this core curriculum. Funding schools that are run by a religius group, is VERY
different than funding religious education. Math is math, Chemistry is chemistry.
Teaching language skills, is teaching language skills. Formal logic is formal logic.
But teaching a specific system of theology, is NOT material that is shared by all
Christian groups. Many religious groups that are attracted to Christian nationalism,
don't even accept the Nicene Creed as being core Christian material. Nor, do they
accept formal logic, as a foundation of thinking about both religiious and non-religious
subjects. This is why they are VERY susceptible to believing conspiracy theories
(formal reasoning, and the careful examination of evidence, is the enemy of conspiracy
theories).
---------- ----------

I have no problem with a state subsidizing the building and running of religious
schools, IF those schools hold to a rigorous curricula that corresponds to a
Christian liberal arts education.

However, if the funding initiative is hijacked by anti-intellectual, conspiracy theory
lovers, then the resulting schools and educational curricula will more resemble
a school run by the Taliban, than an orthodox Christian school.

And THAT, would be a huge mistake, undercutting freedom of religion
in America.

This ( voucher idea anyway) may be good for public schools as it forces the schools to either ave a quality education or lose students and with it funding.

 

[Desk trauma]

This ( voucher idea anyway) may be good for public schools as it forces the schools to either ave a quality education or lose students and with it funding.

No, it is a means to pull funds from public schools to subsidize those who choose not to use them.

 

[Larniavc]

No, it is a means to pull funds from public schools to subsidize those who choose not to use them.

It does seem to significantly favour Christians over non Christians.

I bet it’s still persecution; somehow.

 

[Desk trauma]

It does seem to significantly favour Christians over non Christians.

I bet it’s still persecution; somehow.

It will definitely be persecution if any other religion gets to make use of it.

 

[Pommer]

Capitalist-driven schooling seems an odd way to educate our young.

 

[comana]

This ( voucher idea anyway) may be good for public schools as it forces the schools to either ave a quality education or lose students and with it funding.

What happens when funding is taken from public schools and given to students who never attended a public school? If vouchers become universally available to students in the community, then there will be students receiving voucher funding to attend private schools they were attending. This will harm public schools even more.

 

[dogs4thewin]

What happens when funding is taken from public schools and given to students who never attended a public school? If vouchers become universally available to students in the community, then there will be students receiving voucher funding to attend private schools they were attending. This will harm public schools even more.

What if the vouchers had income requirements?

 

[Desk trauma]

This will harm public schools even more.

That’s a feature, not a bug.

 

[comana]

That’s a feature, not a bug.

We’ll see how happy they are when private tuition goes through the roof like college tuition did. When every student is granted extra cash to pay, the price goes up.

 

[Stephen3141]

(Many related topics are being brought up.

These topics, I think, SHOULD HAVE BEEN basic discussion material in
civics courses in K12, about public education.

I think, that if America does not have high quality K12 education available
to all citizens, that our society and economy will continue to have trouble
competing on the global stage of technology.

And, until America substantively addresses this problem of quality K12
education, there will be a continuing a growing earning gap between
students whose parents CAN afford a quality educaiton for their children,
and those who CAN'T.

For Christians, the more LOW quality religious education there is, the more
CONSPIRACY THEORIES will spread in the worst educated Christians, in
America.)

 

[Stephen3141]

The state isn't obligated to honor your preferences or fund them. When parents want a curriculum that isn't usually available they have three options.

Find a school that offers it.
Homeschool their children.
Hire a governess or tutor.

When you don't like what's offered you go in your pocket or do it yourself. A Christian liberal education isn't a right. It's a privilege.

~bella

One of the reasons that Ohio is starting to fund the BUILDING of
some religious schools, is that the public schools lack capacity.

The topic of a different curriculum in religious schools, is a different
topic than this one.

The public school K12 education has dropped many topics that formerly
were available (such as basic Moral Theory, as is required of any fair rule of law).
This is a different topic than some religious parents wanting to ADD topics to
a public school curriculum. Many religious parents are moving to religious schools,
because the students behave much better, there. But, good behavior used to be
expected in puclic schools.

I would criticize the curriculum of BOTH public schools, and many Christian
K12 schols, because they do not provide a broad exposure to great ideas,
and serious critical reaoning skills.

I don't think that this discussion is best seen with just the cutting plane of
religious versus secular K12 schools.

 

[Chesterton]

I have to laugh whenever I read that this thing called the State is "giving" taxpayer money to taxpayers.

I also laugh when anyone worries that the quality of public schools might decrease.

 

[bèlla]

The topic of a different curriculum in religious schools...

Is mentioned in your OP. If you don't want to discuss that perhaps you should amend it.

The public school K12 education has dropped many topics that formerly
were available (such as basic Moral Theory, as is required of any fair rule of law).
This is a different topic than some religious parents wanting to ADD topics to
a public school curriculum.

If the topic has been dropped from the curriculum they've determined it's no longer necessary. That's their official position. If you disagree you're asking them to reverse the ruling and add it back.

I would criticize the curriculum of BOTH public schools, and many Christian
K12 schols, because they do not provide a broad exposure to great ideas,
and serious critical reaoning skills.

You can criticize all you like but alternatives exist and there's no getting around it. There are schools available that have a classical christian curriculum but you'll have to pay or you can do it yourself.

Parents have many options in respect to education. The problem is they don't want to pay or bring them home. They want the state to do it for them and if that's your position you take the good with the bad.

Sometimes better things require a sacrifice. A safe neighborhood, better schools, wholesome activities, etc. You usually have to spend more to get them in today's culture. They're not the norm.

~bella

 

[comana]

I have to laugh whenever I read that this thing called the State is "giving" taxpayer money to taxpayers.

I also laugh when anyone worries that the quality of public schools might decrease.

They are (hypothetically as my state does not have vouchers) giving my tax dollars to parents to spend on private schools. I pay taxes for funding public schools yet my children are grown and living elsewhere. Most families with school children are not paying enough tax dollars into the funding to cover the cost of their child’s education. So unless the vouchers are limited to the exact amount any given family pays into education funding, it is giving tax dollars paid from other families who do not have school age children. Tax dollars intended to fund public not private schools.