Natsarim

[visionary]

Natsarim

Does anyone know much about this group other than I believe they maybe one of the "God's name" people.

 

[Lulav]

Sounds like just one congregation.

 

[hamashiachagape]

Natsarim

Does anyone know much about this group other than I believe they maybe one of the "God's name" people.

They are indeed one of the God's name people. There are some who believe in what is known as the "barley harvest" calendar too, which is actually opposed to the rabbinical calendar. I believe this serves to add confusion to the Messianic movement. I actually attend a Natsarim..a.k.a. Netzarim group on Saturdays sometime, as I have friends whom are associated with this group of people.

Many within this group of believers agree with a Oneness Theology. I believe this comes from the Rambam understanding of Deuteronomy 6:4, which I also agree is very hellenized compared to the actual print in the Torah. God's nature is actually a plurality in nature.

They will also often times utilize the Pe[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ta-primacy..a.k.a. Aramaic. Now I believe in a Hebrew primacy of scripture, but I have a few particular issues with utilizing this copy of the Brit Hadashah. It seems as if it comes directly from the KJV..I find this suspect to state this should be thought of as an original copy of the Brit Hadashah.

Also much is made out of the Shemtov Matthew. I have had a discussion with a Hasidic Netzarim about this book. There is a bunch of problems with utilizing this copy of the Shemtov Matthew, as it directly contradicts the actual earlier Greek copies that we have, and it is intended to do so. Shemtov wrote this as a reactionary stance against the missionary tactics of the Inquistion, and there may be a sympathy tied to his actions to a certain degree. But what I can not have empathy for is his outright distortion of scripture, actually removing anything having to do with Yeshua being God as an example.

There is in fact an original Hebrew Matthew. That understanding is not in contention at all by any decent scholar. What is in contention is whether or not we actually have a copy of this Hebrew Matthew today. Since it was actually destroyed in the library of Caesarea, it should be thought that we do not. The Hebrew Matthew is actually from my understanding, an expanded work on the Toledoth Yeshu, which was also a distortion of Matthew. Worthy of note is that the Toledoth Yeshu has been utilized by skeptics..especially in the 1900s, to actually make some ridiculous claims about Yeshua being born 150 years or so before he was actually born. JP Holding writes about the Toledoth Yeshu here - Revilo P. Oliver: A Critique

This is really grasping at straws folks.

 

[Heber]

That Matthew was first written in Hebrew is a well known fact, attested to by those who were around much nearer his time, and by many academics today.

 

[visionary]

Natsari claim that they can trace their roots back to the 1st century Jewish believers in Messiah who walked in the footsteps of Messiah Yeshua and kept the whole Torah as well as kept their cultural identity as Jews in tact by keeping many customs and traditions.

 

[visionary]

The prophet spoken of is Isaiah in the book that bears his name chapter 11, verses 1 through 2.

Isaiah 11

1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Nazareth and Nazarene is a mistranslation of the word, Natsari&; meaning, ;Protector; Branch.

The footnotes in the Hebraic Roots Version (HRV) says:

There appears to be a word play in the Hebrew here between Natzeret and Netzer (branch Isa. 11:2(11:1))

 

[visionary]

Found an interesting website on the study of the word..

YHWHNATZARIM.html

 

[Lulav]

 

[hamashiachagape]

That Matthew was first written in Hebrew is a well known fact, attested to by those who were around much nearer his time, and by many academics today.

Yes, the early church fathers confirm this for us..such as Papias. No doubt can be made regarding this. What I discourage is the usage of the Shemtov Matthew, or the DuTillet version. This version seems highly related to the KJV for some odd, but I see not so coincidental reasons.

 

[Desert Rose]

Found an interesting website on the study of the word..

YHWHNATZARIM.html

no, sweetheart, that is not real or worthy of a smart girl Visio's attention.Check the home page.THis is a crazy man Lew White and his cult of "Sacred Name" Website is a product of a mentally disturbed person.
highly entertaining though, to get a laugh or three

Real Gems:
-The website says that the word christian came from the word "cretin"
-Yeshua's name is "Yahusha"
-Christianity is Synagogue of Shatan( i think he means Satan?)
-women shouldnt be allowed to speak in the assembly (what a donkey.)
etc..
What i value this forum for is balanced, respectful view of others from most MJs. If anybody here subsribes to that Lew White craziness, better tell me, I promise to momentarily promptly leave..

 

[visionary]

no, sweetheart, that is not real or worthy of a smart girl Visio's attention.Check the home page.THis is a crazy man Lew White and his cult of "Sacred Name" Website is a product of a mentally disturbed person.
highly entertaining though, to get a laugh or three

Real Gems:
-The website says that the word christian came from the word "cretin"
-Yeshua's name is "Yahusha"
-Christianity is Synagogue of Shatan( i think he means Satan?)
-women shouldnt be allowed to speak in the assembly (what a donkey.)
etc..
What i value this forum for is balanced, respectful view of others from most MJs. If anybody here subsribes to that Lew White craziness, better tell me, I promise to momentarily promptly leave..

take the meat .. spit out the bones.. but let's not go after the messanger .. not even a Balaam.. like Lew White.

 

[Desert Rose]

take the meat .. spit out the bones.. but let's not go after the messanger .. not even a Balaam.. like Lew White.

yeap, very bony donkey. Ok,just for you, i will try to follow your advice and go see of there any meat there. There better be!

 

[Lulav]

The prophet spoken of is Isaiah in the book that bears his name chapter 11, verses 1 through 2.

Isaiah 11

1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Nazareth and Nazarene is a mistranslation of the word, “Natsari” meaning, “Protector” or “Branch.”

The footnotes in the Hebraic Roots Version (HRV) says:

“There appears to be a word play in the Hebrew here between Natzeret and Netzer (branch Isa. 11:2(11:1))

just for clarification, my was for this post not the one following it.

 

[Paddy Yahsharal]

Natsarim

Does anyone know much about this group other than I believe they maybe one of the "God's name" people.

Yes, I have been affiliated with a very small group for the last 3 years. "Natsarim" is about as close a label as you can get to me. I became a follower of 'Jesus' 32 years ago. I believe many to want to use the Name of our Father, I am one of them. I am not a sacred namer as I do not try to make others 'do as I do'. I say His name as it is in the Paleo-Hebrew. "Yahuah" I am hatred and/or ridiculed for this, but this is nothing new to me. I left Christianity 12 years ago when I felt it no longer represented what the bible teaches. Christianity is full of Doctrines of Men. I do my best to only study the Tanakh/OT in the ancient Hebrew and the Renewed Covenant in the Aramaic. I believe a majority of the Commandments are still in effect and I observe them without exception or excuse. I believe that Yahuah saved me from my 'past' sins when He came in the body of Yahusha (the Savior), and shed His blood. Beyond that, Christianity has very little else in common with me. If you wish to contact me to ask further questions or tell me about your 'Ancient Path' group, please contact me on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/192475740937647/ Anyone contacting me to condemn or ridicule will be deleted and banned. Shalum

 

[visionary]

Nice of you to drop by and give your testimony. This thread was to learn more about the beliefs and understanding of scripture to lead on on this path. How old is it, and how many are following and why?

 

[Paddy Yahsharal]

Nice of you to drop by and give your testimony. This thread was to learn more about the beliefs and understanding of scripture to lead on on this path. How old is it, and how many are following and why?

Well then, I apologise for disrupting the thread. I really don't agree with Messianic Judaism to begin with.
thanks but no thanks

 

[Tone]

I've read a lot of Lew White and find it to be similar to much SDA material. It is a resource to learn a lot more about Hebrew language and I especially like the emphasis on the Names. As far as I understand it, the Natsarim are branches or Descendants of the Vine.

 

[Tone]

Nice of you to drop by and give your testimony. This thread was to learn more about the beliefs and understanding of scripture to lead on on this path. How old is it, and how many are following and why?

I would point you to the The WildBranch Ministry for a more palatable and balanced view of the Hebrew Roots movement...not that I have anything against Lew White, but his material could be a shock to some.

 

[Tone]

"The organized Christian church has, for two millennia, cut herself off from her roots. The modern church has, instead, planted an entirely new tree. This tree has rejected the fruit of YHWH's feasts, His Shabbat, His Torah, His dietary laws, and even His Name.

The WildBranch focus is to restore the ways of our Creator to His people by teaching the Old and New Testaments from the language and culture of the people who penned them. The New Testament is crammed full of idioms, phrases, and concepts known to the observant Jew (Yehudim) living in the time of Yeshua's ministry, but unfamiliar to modern readers. The Scriptures must be read through the eyes and minds of the culture in which it was written."
About Us — The WildBranch Ministry

There's a snippet for you.

 

[Tone]

"Hebrew Roots (or sometimes, Hebraic Roots) is a grassroots movement without an ecclesiastical superstructure and it does not adhere to the COG belief system, nor does it adhere to Messianic Judaism, or to the SNM, although there are commonalities. A number of their founders began teaching about the need to keep the 7th Day Sabbath, to observe annual Feasts, and to obey Old Testament commandments years before these topics were taught and accepted by some in the Christian churches. These early teachers include William Dankenbring (1964) and Dean Wheelock (1981) (both of whom had prior associations with different Churches of God), Joe Good (1978), and Brad Scott (1983). Batya Wootten's curiosity about the Gentile majority in many Messianic-Jewish congregations resulted in her first book about the two houses of Israel in 1988. This was later followed by her 1998 book entitled Who is Israel (now renamed in its 4th edition as Redeemed Israel).[5]...The goal of this group is “Exploring the Hebrew Roots of the Faith Once Delivered,”-“roots” which go back to not only Yeshua and the Talmidim (Apostles), but to the Nazarenes [7] of the first century and, ultimately, the original Hebrews (Ivrit), Abraham and his offspring, who were the first to "cross over" (which is what "Hebrew" means in the Hebrew language). Those who continue in this Hebraic walk seek out the history, culture, and faith of the first century believers who, like Abraham and Moses obeyed God's voice, charge, commandments, statutes, and laws (Gen 26:5). The 41,000,[8] denominations of Christianity commonly believe that such obedience (viz, to the 613 Torah Mitzvot) is no longer required. This is largely due to a number of statements by the apostle Paul.[9]...the Hebrew Roots Movement is the "final stage of empowerment" before Christ returns. Several Hebrew Roots ministries are now preferring to use the term Awakening instead of the term "movement" which has been used widely since the 1960s to define politically oriented movements.[5]...The movement / Awakening has accelerated in the last few years,[10]mainly because of a shift within the Messianic Jewish community.[5] The Hebrew Roots movement and a few Messianic Jewish groups diverge on the issue of One Law theology (one law for the native born and the sojourner, c.f. Numbers 15:16)[11] which Hebrew Roots subscribes to, but which some Messianic Jewish groups deny. One Hebrew Roots teacher, Tim Hegg, responded to this issue by defending what he believes to be the biblical teaching of "One Law" theology and its implications concerning the obligations of Torah obedience for new Messianic believers from the nations.[12] The Two-House and One Law differences have affected musicians who are welcomed by Hebrew Roots fellowships notwithstanding their beliefs: "...many Messianic Jewish artists who are heavily influenced by organizations like the MJAA and the UMJC have been told by their leadership that if they ever appear at an MIA event they will not be able to play with them again".[13]"
Hebrew Roots - Wikipedia

More info., sorry so lengthy, I'm actually learning more about it myself.