"Modern" churches

[graceandpeace]

Greetings everyone.

I don't venture into this forum very often, but I had a few questions that I would like to hear different perspectives about.

Many Christian churches have, for lack of any other word, become "modern." What I mean is that many newer-ish church buildings resemble theaters/auditoriums in their design, use projectors for song lyrics & sermon outlines, contain little (if any) religious art or imagery, offer "contemporary" music (sometimes close to rock), & a few even use laser lights & fog machines. This sort of church design & use has been a popular force in particular amongst evangelical Protestants, but also with some mainline Protestants & other Western Christians.

The contrasting set up is the more "traditional" or historic church set up. Whether older or newer in age, there is often stain glass and/or icons for imagery, pews or otherwise non-theater like seating (or most people stand as in Eastern churches), very little (if any) use of projector screens, music is often lead by a choir or cantor instead of a band, priests/ministers/other church servants typically wear robes/vestments. Eastern churches (like the Eastern Orthodox), Roman Catholics, Anglicans/Episcopalians, & others typically worship in churches with a more traditional set up & service, though some modern elements may be present.

So a few questions:

1) As a Muslim, a Jew, an atheist, etc (non-Christian), how do you perceive the more "modern" churches? If you've never attended a service in one, would you go? If you have attended one, how did you perceive the church - annoying, uplifting, something else?

2) Same questions regarding the more "traditional" format.

3) In your place of worship (if applicable), are there any "modern" set ups similar to the modern church design described earlier (theater seating, etc)? If not, are you aware of any places representing your religion that are set up in a similar manner?

I have a hard time from where I'm posting identifying all of the faith icons, so if you could please name your religion (or lack of) when posting your response, that would be great.

Thanks!

 

[BaconWizard]

Greetings everyone.

I have a hard time from where I'm posting identifying all of the faith icons, so if you could please name your religion (or lack of) when posting your response, that would be great.

Thanks!

If you hover your mouse over the icon, it will explain itself for you

 

[abysmul]

"traditional" or historic church set up

That which you are referring too probably are NOTHING like the places that the first Christians gathered. The closest thing might be to go somewhere like North Korea where the Christians worship "underground"/hidden and in fear for their lives.

The first Christians didn't have pipe organs, stained glass, and golden candlesticks, chalices, and serving platters.

 

[awitch]

Hi...Neopagan here.

So I'm not a fan of the modern, concert-atmosphere churches. I just see the extravagance of the buildings and the audio/visual equipment and just think that money could have been used for something far more worth while. I've never attended one of the mega-churches but I did donate a small contribution to one for some charity event. Then they sent me a form where I could provide my bank account information so they could make direct withdrawals for regular donations.

I have more respect for the simpler, humbler churches. I've been to a few such churches and the experience was always so passive; like I was just fed what to believe and what to sing and it was all going through the motions.

My place of worship is a rock. Literally. I'm a solitary practitioner so if the weather is decent I perform any ceremonies outside. When the weather isn't so great, it's usually done in some room at home at a small table. When I was practicing in a group years ago, it was also usually in someone's home.

 

[graceandpeace]

That which you are referring too probably are NOTHING like the places that the first Christians gathered. The closest thing might be to go somewhere like North Korea where the Christians worship "underground"/hidden and in fear for their lives.

The first Christians didn't have pipe organs, stained glass, and golden candlesticks, chalices, and serving platters.

I am well aware of the situation of the early Christians, but certain traditions developed in the Church over time & are part of its history, with distinctions noted between East & West. Beyond the building, it is known from ancient sources that Christians worshipped in liturgy & ascribed high importance to the Eucharist - & this reverence is reflected in how it is handled in more "traditional" churches today.

Anyway, let's keep this thread on topic.

 

[abysmul]

Sorry, I thought it was on topic. What's traditional today might not be tomorrow. One day people might look back on today's "modern churches" as traditional. That's all I was thinking. It's not like there's a list of scripture that describes what official Christian buildings should look like, including their interior design (windows, seating, statues, etc). I don't recall a single passage in the bible describing official buildings of worship for Christians, at all.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

I grew up going to 'traditional church' as a Catholic, circa mid seventies to mid eighties UK, (currently 'other' religion suits just fine) and for the most part I found it boring. I suspect the modern outlook is to lend a more 'performance approach' in light of folk desiring a more sensory experience (and maybe falling numbers of attendance) in these 'tech times' and to lift it away from the more mundane. Personally I think if I attended church now I'd prefer silence interspersed with reflective music to create a more contemplative mood, which of course I can do at home, out running or walking amongst nature. I haven't been to the type of church you speak of and I'd like to go one day and soak up the vibe, but as a casual observer it's not my thing really. Worship (in its broadest sense) for me is a daily applied action to my everyday life.

 

[MehGuy]

I prefer more modern church services. Those are the kind I grew up with. Rock music, pop culture references and a lot of current tech.

I have only attended a few traditional churches in my life time. Once with a friend and the other times during a funeral service for some distant loved one that died, lol. Since they were all catholic, we'd attend catholic churches. The first time I went to one, the stark contrast was very baffling. Everything was cold and dark, and there was a pretty depressing atmosphere. Even though I like that sort of thing, I missed the warm atmosphere of more modern churches.

I agree with awitch, lavish churches make me sick. Christianity should be more focused on helping the poor, not hording expensive things. Although the modern churches I went too were not too lavish. We'd actually rent out high-schools and use their auditoriums for services. Every week we'd have to set up all of our equipment and take it down by the end of the day. It was pretty low key in it's own way.

Our church never even had it's own denomination. We'd just call ourselves Christians. I think we even had a few Catholics in our services. I actually am not too familiar with the denominational differences.

 

[Eudaimonist]

1) As a Muslim, a Jew, an atheist, etc (non-Christian), how do you perceive the more "modern" churches?

I've never been in one.

If you've never attended a service in one, would you go?

I have no particular reason to attend a service, but I would not object to a church simply because it was more "modern".

2) Same questions regarding the more "traditional" format.

I'm an ex-Catholic, and in my experience a church is a feast for the senses. I like the stained glass, icons, symbolism, candles, etc.

I have a hard time from where I'm posting identifying all of the faith icons, so if you could please name your religion (or lack of) when posting your response, that would be great.

I'm an atheist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[MehGuy]

Oh, this thread reminds me of the episode where Lisa becomes a Buddhist.

The scene where they modern up the church is priceless. I like the part where Lisa gets fed up and leaves, and one of the ushers is like "Do you want me to stamp your hand so you can get back in?".

Only Youtube clip of the episode I can find, lol. Lol at "everyone in the store is looking at you..".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLYyHIYFstw

 

[BaconWizard]

Never attended a service in a modern church, but I much prefer the atmosphere of an older one. Part of the issue for me is that I can't really get my head around such a modern setting for such an archaic tradition and set of ideas.

Plus, some traditional sacred music is truly incredible while any and all music that I have heard from recent decades has been truly, truly, awful. That makes a huge difference to me.

That all being said, of course new buildings are required so the architecture might be a factor of that and fairly unavoidable.

In some cases, what does make a bit more sense to me is where the church is also used for other community events, which happens much less in the average gothic stone edifice.

If anyone would be interested in photos of Shrewsbury Abbey, which was started in 1068 I'd be happy to oblige. I live in sight of it.

 

[seashale76]

That which you are referring too probably are NOTHING like the places that the first Christians gathered. The closest thing might be to go somewhere like North Korea where the Christians worship "underground"/hidden and in fear for their lives.

The first Christians didn't have pipe organs, stained glass, and golden candlesticks, chalices, and serving platters.

I disagree 100%. Said types of churches you claim are nothing like the first Christians still manage house churches when the need arises and can pull off having Divine Liturgy in concentration camps, trees, caves, et cetera, et cetera.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

1) As a Muslim, a Jew, an atheist, etc (non-Christian), how do you perceive the more "modern" churches? If you've never attended a service in one, would you go? If you have attended one, how did you perceive the church - annoying, uplifting, something else?

I'm not generally opposed to the notion of updating rituals or incorporating contemporary styles into one's spiritual practice. Christianity has always been doing that, and even the now-hallowed "traditional" songs and buildings were outrageously modern at some point.
What bothers me about American mega-churches, however, is their lack of intellectual content, and the amount of money they spend on bling bling instead of helping the poor.

Last but not least, I'd consider it more vitally important to update world views to what we've learned about the universe and our place within it in the meantime, instead of just perusing outer forms while holding on to a cultivated form of ignorance.

2) Same questions regarding the more "traditional" format.

As a history buff, I love traditional churches and rituals, but I do not imbue them with any special meaning just on account of them being old. As mentioned before, these were the avantgarde at some point, too, and old does not automatically mean better or more accurate.

3) In your place of worship (if applicable), are there any "modern" set ups similar to the modern church design described earlier (theater seating, etc)? If not, are you aware of any places representing your religion that are set up in a similar manner?

There are no megachurches in Germany, or if they are, they are most likely associated with evangelical fundamentalism, and thus among the last places I'd ever wish to visit. Not on account of their outer trappings, but on account of the ideology that is promoted there.


Oh, and my spirituality defies labels. I draw inspiration from many different sources: Daoism, Buddhism, Christian mysticism, neo-paganism, shamanism, secular philosophy, post-humanism, deep ecology, tantrism, the Western Esoteric Tradition, Jungian psychoanalysis, and - last but not least - naturalistic pantheism. Just to mention a few.

 

[graceandpeace]

Thank you for the feedback.

I am turned off by mega-churches & the extravagance of these places, & I just was curious about how others perceived these "modern" places. Of course, modern is not automatically bad, & not all "contemporary" churches are over-the-top;however, it was the mega-churches/church growth movement places that were on my mind.

 

[gord44]

I always has a problem with 'mega churches' when I was a church goer. Seemed so against what Jesus (pbuh) taught. Of course you could look at the massive cathedrals of old and see the same type of over extravagance. So it's not just a modern phenomenon.

Personally I preferred a quiet little Anglican Or Baptist church with simple hymns to the loud worship at more modern churches.

 

[graceandpeace]

I am not opposed to beauty. I love churches with images & structure that are meant to create a sacred space - from the multiple icons typical of an Eastern Orthodox Church, to the gorgeous stained glass windows more typical of Western churches. However, I don't see beauty (or a sacred purpose) in strobe lights, fog machines, & "rock & roll for Jesus" stuff.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I don't see beauty (or a sacred purpose) in strobe lights, fog machines, & "rock & roll for Jesus" stuff.

Neither do I, but I suspect that those gimmicks are there to keep from turning people off and to keep them coming back. Some people aren't able to properly discern or value beauty.

I'm not sure what the best solution is. Maybe to offer beauty some of the time, and glamour the rest of the time.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[gord44]

I am not opposed to beauty. I love churches with images & structure that are meant to create a sacred space - from the multiple icons typical of an Eastern Orthodox Church, to the gorgeous stained glass windows more typical of Western churches. However, I don't see beauty (or a sacred purpose) in strobe lights, fog machines, & "rock & roll for Jesus" stuff.

You make a good point. The extravagance of old Catholic cathedrals and large Eastern Orthodox churches is tempered by their beauty. I used to go to an Eastern Orthodox Church with icons everywhere and it was breathtaking.

 

[ViaCrucis]

My Lutheran church, for all accounts, has a rather plain interior. With a simple plain cross adorning behind the altar. My understanding is that this "simpler" style became more normative among Lutheran churches in the US (including the use of a plain cross rather than a crucifix) largely through adapting to the already-established American Protestant aesthetic, which generally follows the iconoclastic tendencies of the Reformed Tradition.

I'd absolutely love going to a church that looked like this (link to picture, I didn't want to post it in the thread because of its size). This is from Immanuel Lutheran Church in NYC.

And I absolutely adore the aesthetics of traditional Eastern ecclesiastical architecture. I'm a definite iconophile.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Jewish


I have been in modern sheet metal churches with the band and audio/visual setup as well as older cathedrals and mission style churches. I prefer the mood and acoustics of the older buildings.