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CoreyD

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As mass baptisms continue to break out across America, some are naturally asking an important question: Is revival in the air?

Record-Breaking Mass Baptism Event Sees Over 12,000 Baptisms
A mass, inter-denominational baptism event over Pentecost Sunday saw over 12,000 people get baptized in California. The baptisms were part of Baptize California, which involved hundreds of churches across the state including Saddleback Church, with a main event being held at Huntington Beach. There were two days of worship at Huntington, with over 19,000 people coming to the beach to participate. There were spontaneous baptisms on Saturday and planned baptisms on Sunday, totaling more than 6,000 people being baptized at Huntington Beach alone. More than 6,000 other people were baptized across the state at other participating locations.

There have been stories across the nation of mass revivals and baptisms across the nation​

Thousands gather for historic Baptize California event; Baptize America announced for June 2025

Over a Quarter Million Recently Baptized in Papua New Guinea
Over 260,000 people have been baptized in the Seventh-day Adventist Church’s recent “PNG For Christ” evangelistic effort in Papua New Guinea.
Described as a “Discipleship Reaping Campaign,” the mass baptism-focused series was composed of around 2,000 evangelistic programs. They were held from April 26 to May 12 at 162 sites across the Independent State of PNG, population about 10 million.​
According to Wilson, the goal of the evangelistic campaign is a final total of 600,000 baptisms. The current official membership of the Papua New Guinea Union Mission is 395,636.​

While there is nothing wrong with baptizing en masse, there can be something wrong with them, depending on what's involved.
For example...

In 782 at the Massacre of Verden, Charlemagne reportedly ordered the slaughter of some 4,500 Saxons. He eventually forced the Saxons to convert to Christianity, and declared that anyone who didn’t get baptized or follow other Christian traditions be put to death.

[In 1534, the New Jerusalem movement, under the then leadership of Jan Matthijsz,] in their attempts to gather the holy community together, the revolutionaries soon found it necessary to expel from the city those who would not be baptized (Littell 30).

Some persons are forced, or coerced into being baptized.
Some are baptized spontaneously, without needing to know the lord, or turn their life around.
It isn't even important if the person understands what God requires of them, or what life the person is living.

For example, concerning the afore mentioned, where
Over a Quarter Million Recently Baptized in Papua New Guinea...
Lawson also shared an event he witnessed in PNG.*​

My first interviewing trip to PNG was in 1986, when there were already many Adventist politicians, whom I was eager to interview. One of them was from one of the first villages to become Adventist in the Eastern Highlands–Kabiufa. This village was the site of the best-known Adventist secondary school in PNG. It had been the first of our five secondary schools to move its top grade from 10 to 12, which allowed Adventists to have unusually good educations. (The 4 other Adventist high schools at that time topped out at grade 10.) I was staying with the mission president in Goroka, who was then still an Australian.​
On Sabbath morning we “looked in” on 3 churches, finishing at Kabiufa Village Church. The politician and I recognized each other from our interview, and we greeted each other after the service ended. The president proudly chaufered me around on Sabbath afternoon, showing me just how significant the Adventist presence was there in the Eastern Highlands. When we returned to the president’s home in time for dinner we were met with shocking news: the politician had had what we would call a heart attack that afternoon and had died. The village elders wanted the mission president to resurrect him next morning. The president became very nervous—how could he refuse such a request given the New Testament, and yet resurrections don’t seem to happen any more. The attempted resurrection next morning was not successful.​
But the Mission president returned home with disturbing news: the village elders had met afterwards to determine who had been responsible for killing their leader, and had decided that a neighboring non-Adventist village was to blame. Their actions were somehow associated with their ancestors, who were still part of the Village, and the ancestors of both villages had traditionally been enemies. The Mission President was very upset: he told me that this would lead to armed conflict between the two villages, and it was likely that some would be hurt or killed.​

“I am wondering to what extent the PNG Adventist politicians are involved in this,” Lawson added. “When I asked these politicians, how does being an Adventist impact the sort of policies they pursue, they would look at me blankly.” He remembers a political leader finally offering that he was able to “get a piece of land for the church.”
Reflecting on the news, Lawson wondered aloud. “Who are we baptizing? What villages do they come from? Why are they being baptized now?”

This is sad, isn't it, because many millions of people are immersed, into what is known today as Christianity, without really knowing what is involved in being a Christian, and so the result is more of what has been termed "Rice Christian".

The expression rice Christian is a derogatory slur used to describe someone who has formally converted to Christianity for material benefits rather than for religious reasons. Merriam-Webster dictionary defines it as "a convert to Christianity who accepts baptism not on the basis of personal conviction but out of a desire for food, medical services, or other benefits"

Similarly, in India, the term rice bag or rice bag convert is used as a derogatory slur targeting Christians, alleging that the target has converted to Christianity for a bag of rice. The term is often used by right-wing Hindutva groups in India.

Concerns have been expressed both by Christian missionaries and by those opposed to Christian missions that people in these situations are only nominally converting to Christianity in order to receive charity or material advancements.

What is really involved in baptism?
Persons may use the book of Acts as a basis for spontaneous baptisms en masse. See Acts 2:38-42; Acts 4:4.
What does the Bible tell us about these baptisms, that can help us avoid making rice Christians?
 
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Hazelelponi

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I believe there can be phenomenon occur.

I don't know anything about the America's, but in the middle east something of God is happening. I have no doubt.

I know there's large numbers of Muslims becoming Christian all over the Muslim world. Last I heard Iran is the latest, but there might be some confusion there as many are just becoming atheist too...

In the Muslim world converts away from Islam, one group becomes atheist, one group becomes Christian, one group non committal just preferencing western culture and prefers the cult of life (Christians) worldview over the cult of death.

But the large numbers of actual Christians do seem to actually be there.

Perhaps in the America's you'll find similar splits after a fashion if there's a major shift away from the current culture.

In the middle east a lot of the catalyst away from the prevailing culture is the rise of Islamic extremism coupled with western interactions.

That's where God grabs some of us anyway.
 
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CoreyD

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If they have never believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and became a permanent born again child of God. All they are doing is getting wet.
Thanks, but I was hoping to have a scriptural answer.
I don't mean just scripture quotation, but scripture that goes with one's opinion.
Hence, my question : What does the Bible tell us about these baptisms, that can help us avoid making rice Christians?

You said something that prompts me to ask. How does one "become a permanent born again child of God"?
 
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CoreyD

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I believe there can be phenomenon occur.

I don't know anything about the America's, but in the middle east something of God is happening. I have no doubt.

I know there's large numbers of Muslims becoming Christian all over the Muslim world. Last I heard Iran is the latest, but there might be some confusion there as many are just becoming atheist too...

In the Muslim world converts away from Islam, one group becomes atheist, one group becomes Christian, one group non committal just preferencing western culture and prefers the cult of life (Christians) worldview over the cult of death.

But the large numbers of actual Christians do seem to actually be there.

Perhaps in the America's you'll find similar splits after a fashion if there's a major shift away from the current culture.

In the middle east a lot of the catalyst away from the prevailing culture is the rise of Islamic extremism coupled with western interactions.

That's where God grabs some of us anyway.
How do we know that these numbers are not large amount of rice Christians?
What makes their baptism different from those mentioned in the OP?
 
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Hazelelponi

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How do we know that these numbers are not large amount of rice Christians?
What makes their baptism different from those mentioned in the OP?

I just know who I talk to online. That's what I see talking to people.

I didn't mention baptism. Christians want to be baptized. No one else does.

I wanted to be baptized when I was saved.
 
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d taylor

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Thanks, but I was hoping to have a scriptural answer.
I don't mean just scripture quotation, but scripture that goes with one's opinion.
Hence, my question : What does the Bible tell us about these baptisms, that can help us avoid making rice Christians?

You said something that prompts me to ask. How does one "become a permanent born again child of God"?
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The Bible states a person is condemned because they do not believe, not because they are not baptized.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How does one become born again read John chapter 3 where the new birth is taught and you will see belief in Jesus is stated several times.
 
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CoreyD

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I just know who I talk to online. That's what I see talking to people.

I didn't mention baptism. Christians want to be baptized. No one else does.

I wanted to be baptized when I was saved.
I don't understand.
I was not aware that one is saved before baptism. Acts 2:40, 41
I'm still getting used to how saved is used by the various denominations.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I don't understand.
I was not aware that one is saved before baptism. Acts 2:40, 41
I'm still getting used to how saved is used by the various denominations.

We are Protestants. We are saved and then baptized into the Church. Baptism is the public confession of faith as well.
 
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CoreyD

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The Bible states a person is condemned because they do not believe, not because they are not baptized.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Thank you.
Would you be so kind as to put the scripture reference, for people like me, who don't know every scriptural reference by heart.

How does one become born again read John chapter 3 where the new birth is taught and you will see belief in Jesus is stated several times.
That wasn't my question, but don't worry. That would probably lead to another topic.
 
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Hazelelponi

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When you are "saved" is when you understand salvation and submit to the Lord in repentance and faith.

Then we baptize. Much more like they do in the Bible
 
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CoreyD

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When you are "saved" is when you understand salvation and submit to the Lord in repentance and faith.

Then we baptize. Much more like they do in the Bible
Everyone has a different idea, I am learning.
What do you think about 1 Peter 3:21?
 
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d taylor

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Thank you.
Would you be so kind as to put the scripture reference, for people like me, who don't know every scriptural reference by heart.


That wasn't my question, but don't worry. That would probably lead to another topic.
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John 3:18

Why permanently, if a person never thirst, that is pretty permanent 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
 
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CoreyD

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John 3:18

Why permanently, if a person never thirst, that is pretty permanent 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
I see that you are giving your opinion, but there isn't any scripture that refers to "permanent born again child of God", is there?

John 3 refers to those that would enter the kingdom of God, does it not? So it's not a requirement for baptism, as far as the scriptures go.

What is required for baptism, for one thing, is knowledge of God and his laws. Acts 2:41; Acts 4:2-4; Acts 8:14-17
 
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d taylor

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I see that you are giving your opinion, but there isn't any scripture that refers to "permanent born again child of God", is there?

John 3 refers to those that would enter the kingdom of God, does it not? So it's not a requirement for baptism, as far as the scriptures go.

What is required for baptism, for one thing, is knowledge of God and his laws. Acts 2:41; Acts 4:2-4; Acts 8:14-17
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So John 4:14 does not actually mean never thirst, of course in your opinion.
 
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CoreyD

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So John 4:14 does not actually mean never thirst, of course in your opinion.
I did not say that, but now that you brought it up, it does not means never thirst physically.
Jesus is using similes, as is obvious in the text.

The living water Jesus spoke of giving, is not literal water.
John 4:13 "...whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”

You didn't think it was, did you?
It is not an opinion. it is right there in the text, for young as well as old, to read.
 
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th1bill

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We are Protestants. We are saved and then baptized into the Church. Baptism is the public confession of faith as well.
I was indwelt with Ruah, a.k.a.. Holy Spirit, on stage as I sang in the New Year on 1/1/1990 and was in Church the next Sunday and the first thing I desired was to make my public declaration by Baptism. I will deny nobody that earmark.
 
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