Mary without original sin?

[LetsBeLogical]

I would like for anyone but mainly the Catholics here to show from scripture that Mary was without original sin. Thanks

LetsBeLogical²

[Edited by a moderator]

 

[lared]

If Mary had not inherited sin from Adam then she would still be alive today. She would not have grown old, gotten sick, and died. For the wages sin pays is death.

 

[geocajun]

does this not beg the question that everything beleived must be found in scripture?

so lets do this, since I believe the premise of your question is based on an extra biblical doctrine, let us first address that.

Show me where in scripture it states that every single thing to be believed, must be found within scripture.

 

[LetsBeLogical]

does this not beg the question that everything beleived must be found in scripture?

so lets do this, since I believe the premise of your question is based on an extra biblical doctrine, let us first address that.

Show me where in scripture it states that every single thing to be believed, must be found within scripture.

No problem my friend. Before I answer please know that what you just said can be used as a defense for the Mormons as well. Then also we must ask ourselves "If it isnt found in the scriptures then where did it come from?"

Galatians 1:8,9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

What gospel might that be? Did they teach Mary was without original sin? If so, did Jesus die for Mary also, and why isnt Mary alive today?

Also why did Mary offer a sin offering after Jesus was born? It obviously couldnt have been for Jesus since he was without sin. She was following the Levitical Law which required a woman that gave birth to offer a sacrifice for purification and one as sin offering.

LetsBeLogical²

 

[geocajun]

No problem my friend. Before I answer please know that what you just said can be used as a defense for the Mormons as well.

LBL, I dont mind if it can be used to defend Mormons.

Then also we must ask ourselves "If it isnt found in the scriptures then where did it come from?"

the same place the bible came from, Tradition.

Galatians 1:8,9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

{snipped out off topic rhetoric}

And now that you have the positive assertion that stating Mary is without sin is a false gospel, you must support this claim.

 

[LetsBeLogical]

geocajun

I think you missed the rest of my previous post. I will repost it and we can go from there.

What gospel might that be? Did they teach Mary was without original sin? If so, did Jesus die for Mary also, and why isnt Mary alive today?

Also why did Mary offer a sin offering after Jesus was born? It obviously couldnt have been for Jesus since he was without sin. She was following the Levitical Law which required a woman that gave birth to offer a sacrifice for purification and one as sin offering

LetsBeLogical²

 

[lared]

these are good questions.

Perhaps der alter has the answers.

 

[ByGrace]

Mary, being human was with sin. No real way around that. She was in need of the healing blood of Jesus Christ as much as any one of us. Yes she was blessed. Yes, I admire and love her for being the vessel God used to come to earth in. I can not wait to worship at the feet of the Lord Jesus with her. The idea of her not being with sin is as out there as the idea that she was always a virgin and that the Bible does not teach that Jesus had actual siblings through her.

 

[geocajun]

geocajun

I think you missed the rest of my previous post. I will repost it and we can go from there.

sorry, I wont play this game. Until you answer the questions I have asked about the premise of your argument, I will not answer any of your questions.

 

[ByGrace]

sorry, I wont play this game. Until you answer the questions I have asked about the premise of your argument, I will not answer any of your questions.

I am not sure what the problem is. Geocajun, since your original post you seem very bitter and short tempered. Why do you handle this thread that way?

 

[geocajun]

I am not sure what the problem is. Geocajun, since your original post you seem very bitter and short tempered. Why do you handle this thread that way?

Hi ByGrace,
I re-read my post, and I do not see where I was bitter or short tempered.

 

[ByGrace]

Hi ByGrace,
I re-read my post, and I do not see where I was bitter or short tempered.

Well, maybe it was just how it came across but it does appear that way. Good to hear that is not the way it was meant. Sometimes typing can fail in passing emotion or intent. God bless.

 

[fatboys]

does this not beg the question that everything beleived must be found in scripture?

so lets do this, since I believe the premise of your question is based on an extra biblical doctrine, let us first address that.

Show me where in scripture it states that every single thing to be believed, must be found within scripture.

FB: I have to ask that is it even mentioned or infered to that Mary was born without sin? What is the original sin that is passed on to us?

 

[geocajun]

FB: I have to ask that is it even mentioned or infered to that Mary was born without sin? What is the original sin that is passed on to us?

oh yes, most definately, but I wont go into any details until my questions are answered.
The question posed by the OP is faulty, and I do not want to enter any discussion like this under a fauly premise.

 

[LightBearer]

Here's an interesting snippet from L’Osservatore Romano the Vatican newspaper, it states concerning the Catholic doctrine of the Assumption : “The Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, when her earthly life was over.” Some Catholic theologians therefore have claimed that Mary “did not die and was immediately raised from earthly life to heavenly glory,” says L’Osservatore Romano.

Recently though, a statement by Pope John Paul II cast a different light on the matter. At the General Audience at the Vatican on June 25, 1997, he said: “The New Testament provides no information on the circumstances of Mary’s death. This silence leads one to suppose that it happened naturally, with no detail particularly worthy of mention . . . . The opinions that wish to exclude her from death by natural causes seem groundless.”

The Pope’s statement is a blow to the Catholic dogma of the Immaculate Conception. If Mary was “preserved free from all stain of original sin,” how could Mary die from “natural causes,” which result from sin passed on by sinful Adam? (Romans 5:12)

 

[ukok]

are we discussing the Assumption of Mary now?

The Immaculate Conception according to the CCC

490 To become the mother of the Saviour, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace".133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God's grace.

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135

492 The "splendour of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son".136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love".137

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God "the All-Holy" (Panagia), and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature".138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
"Let it be done to me according to your word. . ."

494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."139 Thus, giving her consent to God's word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God's grace:140

As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race."141 Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert. . .: "The knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."142 Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."143

 

[ukok]

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I would like for anyone but mainly the Catholics here to show from scripture that Mary was without original sin. Thanks

Catholics are not limited to Scripture only. Your challenge is unfair because it limits the revelation of God given to man.

Michelle

 

[LogicalFallacy]

Catholics are not limited to Scripture only. Your challenge is unfair because it limits the revelation of God given to man.

Michelle

So we can all have our own beliefs regardless of what the Bible says, we can just say we are extra-biblical. What an interesting loop-hole! (Think i'll stick with God thankyou!)

 

[Miss Shelby]

So we can all have our own beliefs regardless of what the Bible says, we can just say we are extra-biblical. What an interesting loop-hole! (Think i'll stick with God thankyou!)

The Bible says that the Bible is the ONLY authority?

Michelle