Mary Magdalene... need help

[mystery4]

Just a question...

How do we come to the conclusion that Mary Magdalene was the woman who washed Jesus' feet with her tears, dried them with her hair and annointed him with alabaster oil?

I have been researching it a bit lately. In the Synoptic gospels (Matt, Mark and Luke) it only mentions a woman, there is no name. In John 11:2 and 12:3 it says she was Mary of Bethany (Lazarus' sister).

The woman who committed adultery in John 8, has no reference to who she was, it was once again "a woman". And the only thing I can find that we are told Jesus helped Mary Magdalene with was Jesus took seven demons out from her (Mark 16:9; Luke 8:2).

So I am just a little bit confuzzled on this issue. Cuz I know lots of Christians all say that Mary Magdalene was an adulterer that Jesus rescued, but I really am unsure how we actually come to that conclusion unless we say the woman in John 8, who is nameless was her. Also how do people come to the conclusion that Mary of Bethany and Mary Magdalene are the same person?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I think the bulk of Christianity is going to owe Mary Magdalene a BIG apology.

I grew up being told she was a prostitute, but scripture certainly doesn't say that.

 

[honorthesabbath]

In Doug Batchelor's book, "At Jesus Feet", he goes into depth on this topic and gives some very good biblical evidence that Mary of Bethany is Mary M.

Unfortunately, I just gave that book away and now I cannot reference some info for you. So if you can get the book, I would encourage you to read it.

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

In Doug Batchelor's book, "At Jesus Feet", he goes into depth on this topic and gives some very good biblical evidence that Mary of Bethany is Mary M.

Unfortunately, I just gave that book away and now I cannot reference some info for you. So if you can get the book, I would encourage you to read it.

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/search.asp?ProductSearch=At+Jesus+Feet&tSearch=All

Is that the book you were talking about, Honor? It looks like it might be. Just click the top one in the list. Couldn't get a direct link, but it's provided free on the Amazing Facts site!

Hope this helps. I've often wondered the same thing. (Actually, I should read it too. )

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Mystery4,

I was just looking over the threads from the last few days and wondered if you got all the information you needed about Mary Magadalene? If you need any help feel free to ask here or PM me.

Your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[StormyOne]

a friend of mine shares the following....

There are a number of Marys in the NT:

Mary, the mother of Jesus
Mary, the wife of Cleopas
Mary, the mother of Janes and Joses and Salome
Mary of Bethany, Lazarus' sister
Mary Magdalene
Mary, the mother of John Mark (acts 12)
and Mary from the church at Rome (Romans 16)

Dont forget they throw the woman of Nain in Luke7 and the woman caught in adultery in John 8 into that mix...

No, they are not the same person.

Not a chance...even if Desire of Ages says they are; the biblical record is clear that they are not.

It is the conglomeration of Mary of Bethany, Mary Magdalene and the woman of Nain in Luke 7 that perpetuates the 'Mary Magdalene was a prostitute' lie. That was the prevailing teaching of EGW's day and it continues today (listen to the words of CeCe Winans' "Alabaster Box") but it cannot be supported by scripture; for one reason, Jesus goes to Nain before he meets Lazarus and Martha and Mary, which occurs in Luke 10. Some have replaced the woman of Luke 7 with the woman caught in adultery in Luke 8 for the same purpose ( and thus the reason for Mary of Bethany's gratitude in John 12 ) but that too cannot be supported by the biblical record.

 

[sentipente]

The identification of Mary Magdalene with Mary of Bethany and "the woman who was a sinner" is reflected in an influential sermon Pope Gregory I gave in 591, which said: "She whom Luke calls the sinful woman, whom John calls Mary [of Bethany], we believe to be the Mary from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark."

I hope that is not where Doug Batchelor got his "good biblical evidence."

 

[StormyOne]

while it makes good sermon material, it's clear that there were several Marys in the bible... each having their own stories as it were...

 

[PeacefulSDA]

The identification of Mary Magdalene with Mary of Bethany and "the woman who was a sinner" is reflected in an influential sermon Pope Gregory I gave in 591, which said: "She whom Luke calls the sinful woman, whom John calls Mary [of Bethany], we believe to be the Mary from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark."

I hope that is not where Doug Batchelor got his "good biblical evidence."

You are correct, senti. It was Pope Gregory who decided to make the connection between Mary of Magdela and the woman in the temple court yard, the woman who was set up by those men so intent to put Jesus in a no-win situation that they would break the law to do so. Folks have taken poetic license ever since.

A friend of StormyOne (and of mine as well) provided me this link to an excellent discussion on Mary Magdalene.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week712/feature.html


It was quite bewildering to find out that, not only was that woman in the court yard NOT Mary of Magdela, but was also not the same as woman as Mary of Bethany since I had just recently spent most of a week writing a poem about Mary in the temple court yard. Fortunately, simply changing the name of the poem removed the major conflict and left the rest acceptable, albiet with a good dose of poetic license.

 

[reddogs]

Just a question...

How do we come to the conclusion that Mary Magdalene was the woman who washed Jesus' feet with her tears, dried them with her hair and annointed him with alabaster oil?

I have been researching it a bit lately. In the Synoptic gospels (Matt, Mark and Luke) it only mentions a woman, there is no name. In John 11:2 and 12:3 it says she was Mary of Bethany (Lazarus' sister).

The woman who committed adultery in John 8, has no reference to who she was, it was once again "a woman". And the only thing I can find that we are told Jesus helped Mary Magdalene with was Jesus took seven demons out from her (Mark 16:9; Luke 8:2).

So I am just a little bit confuzzled on this issue. Cuz I know lots of Christians all say that Mary Magdalene was an adulterer that Jesus rescued, but I really am unsure how we actually come to that conclusion unless we say the woman in John 8, who is nameless was her. Also how do people come to the conclusion that Mary of Bethany and Mary Magdalene are the same person?

Any help would be appreciated.

Here is excerpts of a sermon by David Curtis.
"...Luke was a methodical investigator, interviewer, and compiler of the life and teachings of Jesus. He met people who had eye witness accounts with the Savior and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit wrote them down. John the beloved disciple did not need to interview others as Luke had done. He himself testified, “which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life.” 1 John 1:1.

In John, and also in Matthew and Mark, we find that the story of the events at Simon’s Feast which also include the story of the woman anointing the feet of Jesus were done just previous to the death and burial of Jesus. “ For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.” (Mt 26:12 AV). So as we read this story in Luke’s gospel and find it in two separated chapters both earlier on in his ministry, let us keep in mind that the events happened exactly as they occurred, but not necessarily set in the exact order or time it occurred.

The events in the room of Simon’s Feast led to the betrayal of Jesus Christ. ....

“36 ¶ And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to meat. 37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, 38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. 39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner. 40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. 41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? 43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. 49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.” (Luke 7:36-50 AV)

The event takes place at “the Pharisee’s house.” A woman which “is a sinner” or prostitute came in to the room and began to worship at Jesus feet anointing him with priceless perfume. Jesus who knew all things, including the thoughts and motives in the mind of men perceived what was secretly in the mind of this Pharisee. The Pharisee questions with in his heart a doubting question. “This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.” Jesus could see what others could not, “the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7. Christ saw the unbelief of this Pharisee as he thought the word “IF.” In a few moments we are going to see that this man’s unbelief is outrageous, and beyond comprehension. He had more than ample evidence that this was the Christ sitting at meat with him.

Christ proceeded to give this Pharisee a rebuke, ““44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.” (Luke 7:44-46 AV). Jesus had just dishonored the host of this feast. Simon the Pharisee must have grown ashamed in the presence of his guests as Jesus words fell upon the hearers around the table. This is an important piece of the puzzle as we investigate the REAL reason Judas betrayed Jesus. So let’s keep this in mind. Lets now bring to the stand our second witness in the trial of Judas.

“6 ¶ Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper, 7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat. 8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? 9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. 11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always. 12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial. 13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.” (Mt 26:6-13 AV)

This Pharisee is here called, “Simon the leper.” Mosaic Law forbid men to come into the presence of men contaminated with the feared plague of leprosy. When Jesus had healed men of this debilitating and wasting disease He commanded them to “shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.” Luke 5:14. This act allowed these Jewish men who had been healed by Jesus to return to society. Simon the leper is such a man. “Simon had been healed of the leprosy” Desire of Ages p. 557. This same man had the nerve to ask the question in his heart “IF!”

Is it possible he is one of the lepers mentioned in the Bible as being cleansed by Jesus? It could be. If so He was likely one of the nine who returned not to give God praise. , “12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. 15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. 17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.” (Lu 17:12-19 AV)

Now lets call John to the stand in testimony against Judas. Lets ask John to identify this woman “who was a sinner” at Jesus feet. “It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.” John 11:2. This woman is Mary, the sister of Lazarus. Please tell us John, who else was at this feast the night Judas went out to betray Jesus? ““1 ¶ Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. 2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.” (John 12:1-2 AV)

Simon the Pharisee had been healed of leprosy. Simon was sitting in the presence of one who had been dead just days before. Christ had brought Lazarus back to life just about a day before, inspite of all this Simon still asked with in him self, “IF this man were a prophet….” Could it be that Simon was the “rich man” in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? “ And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” (Luke 16:31 AV)

Mary, Martha, and Lazarus all three siblings were present at this feast. Let us remember the physical activities of Mary and Martha. Mary is at Jesus feet while. “Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair” verse 3. At this time, John testifies that, “Martha served” verse 2. Now lets read this in greater detail in Luke’s gospel.

“38 ¶ Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus’ feet, and heard his word. 40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.” (Luke 10:38-42 AV)

Two more important facts come to surface here. First lets notice whose home this feast is taking place in. “And he went into the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to meat.” Luke 7:36. “Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper” Matthew 26:6.Clearly this story is occurring in Bethany in the home of Simon. Bethany is also the hometown of Mary Martha and Lazarus. “ Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.” (John 11:1 AV) “ Then Jesus six days before the Passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.” (John 12:1 AV) The event of Mary at Jesus feet and Martha busily serving according to Luke happened in Martha’s home “Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.” Luke 10:38. It was both the home of Simon and the home of Martha. Thus we discover that Simon the Pharisee was married to Martha, the sister of Mary and Lazarus. Therefore it was quite natural for Mary and Lazarus to be present for this feast.

Not only had Jesus dishonored and embarrassed Simon the man of the house, He also did the same with Martha the woman of the house. Martha was frantically serving the guests and requested that Jesus bid her sister help her. Jesus said her sister sitting at His feet gave Him a greater blessing that she had in her labors. Martha entered the room, and with her came the taint in the atmosphere of poisonous anger that only a frustrated woman can bring to a room. Following Jesus rebuke to Martha came a rebuke to Simon. Tension is obviously in the air. Now notice the relationship that Judas Iscariot has with Simon and Martha. “Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, SIMON’S SON, which should betray him,” John 12:4. “Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, THE SON OF SIMON.” John 13:26

Simon and Martha were the parents of Judas Iscariot! Judas had witnessed the scenes of his father and mother being humbled by Jesus of Nazareth’s rebukes. He felt his parent’s embarrassment in the presence of their guests as this happened in their own home. He witnessed how he exalted his prostitute aunt above his mother, and could not remain silent another moment.

“4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him, 5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. 7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this. 8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.” (John 12:4-8 AV)

 

[reddogs]

A penny was a days wages, so three hundred pence was three hundred days worth of wages. Greed rose in Judas’s heart as he saw an opportunity fleeing away being poured out in front of his eyes. He coveted his aunt’s gift, which she offered Jesus freely.

“Mary had been looked upon as a great sinner, but Christ knew the circumstances that had shaped her life. He might have extinguished every spark of hope in her soul, but He did not. It was He who had lifted her from despair and ruin. Seven times she had heard His rebuke of the demons that controlled her heart and mind. She had heard His strong cries to the Father in her behalf. She knew how offensive is sin to His unsullied purity, and in His strength she had overcome.” Desire of Ages p. 568.

Mary had been healed of demons that took possession of her mind through indulgence of lust and prostitution. Her brother had just been raised from the dead. This joy and the love she felt from the words of Jesus. “Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.” Luke 6:47,48. A peace and joy flooded her soul and she could not give enough to share with her the love she felt for the Savior. He had restored to this family her brother from the dead, and restored herself from spiritual death 7 times.

“At the table the Saviour sat with Simon, whom He had cured of a loathsome disease, on one side, and Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead, on the other. Martha served at the table, but Mary was earnestly listening to every word from the lips of Jesus. In His mercy, Jesus had pardoned her sins, He had called forth her beloved brother from the grave, and Mary's heart was filled with gratitude.” Desire of Ages p. 558,559.

Amid this scenes of this growing love another heart of hate grew stronger. First Judas’s mother had been rebuked, then his father, then Judas’s own greed cloaked with a form of righteousness had been rebuked, by Christ. Judas could take it no more. The frustration of all this overwhelmed his mind. Immediately following this scene he sought a way to betray Jesus. His motivation was to get even with the Son of God. He had revenge in his heart as he went to the chief priests seeking a plot to destroy Jesus of Nazareth. When the Priests offered to satisfy his unfulfilled greed the deed was settled in Judas’s mind to betray Jesus.

“6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me. 7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always. 8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying. 9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her. 10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them. 11 And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought how he might conveniently betray him.” (Mr 14:6-11 AV)

This grievous betrayal was portrayed in Scripture. This treachery began in the wickedness of his father’s heart. Simon was responsible for leading Mary in to prostitution. “As did Nathan with David, Christ concealed His home thrust under the veil of a parable. He threw upon His host the burden of pronouncing sentence upon himself. Simon had led into sin the woman he now despised. She had been deeply wronged by him. By the two debtors of the parable, Simon and the woman were represented. Jesus did not design to teach that different degrees of obligation should be felt by the two persons, for each owed a debt of gratitude that never could be repaid. But Simon felt himself more righteous than Mary, and Jesus desired him to see how great his guilt really was. He would show him that his sin was greater than hers, as much greater as a debt of five hundred pence exceeds a debt of fifty pence.” Desire of Ages p. 566,567.

In John chapter eight the Pharisees bring a woman caught in the very act of adultery. How did these Pharisees know about this act? Had they not plotted it? Was it not Simon the Pharisee who had arranged for Mary to be committing this act of harlotry that morning fateful morning? Was it not Simon the Pharisee who had his secret plot exposed in the dust of the earth as Jesus wrote out the true circumstances that led to this crime? And was this not one of the seven occasions, in which Christ said to Mary, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more?”



Have we not like Mary seven times in a day sinned and said I repent and experienced the loving Savior’s words, ““ And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.” (Luke17:4 AV) Can not we all recognize the love that flowed from Mary’s heart and have this same experience our selves? No wonder she was the one that stood by Jesus mother and John the beloved disciple as Jesus suffered and bled and died on the cross. No wonder she was the first to appear at the tomb Sunday morning. She it was who first beheld the risen Savior. A prostitute saved be the grace of God......."

 

[bellanegra1]

This will make for interesting study...

PB, thanks for the link.. I will hit it up when I get home...

Now this IS the sort of stuff that makes me want to hang around...

Serious studies and honest disspeling of myths....

Thanks Stormy and Senti... and the un-named contributor....

Red... I have to go back and read your contributions when I get home...