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Lutheran Pastor studies certain Bible topics - then becomes Seventh-day Adventist -- Sept 2024

BobRyan

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In this video testimony, apparently given at the North American Division in 2024 - a Lutheran pastor talks about the topics/issues that lead him to become a Seventh-day Adventist pastor in the fall of 2024, and the challenges he faced, questions he had ...


The video is focused on his testimony not in proving a given doctrine right or wrong. It's message is about the cost of making the decision and the issues he had to deal with since the moment he discussed his new understanding of certain doctrines - he lost his job, his home and his insurance. In the video he states that his plan was to go back to the family farm in Kentucky - if nothing else worked.

But then someone suggested that he go to a camp meeting event
 
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BobRyan

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The video talks about certain topics but does not go into any Bible study for any of the topics. It just said that these were things that Lutheran pastor had to wrestle with in making that decision.

The people in the room are either pastors (and their wife (wives since this is pastor(S)) in some cases?)
 
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BobRyan

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It is interesting how the Holy Spirit lead that Lutheran pastor, against his preference, against his wishes, against his earthly good in terms of having a house, a job, insurance etc. The video is about the struggle he had in going against all earthly interest.

It does not get into the details or defense of each doctrine/topic he was confronted with - it just lists a few of the topics without defending either side of the topic. The focus is on the challenge to follow even when it is very inconvenient and the that the pathway is in trusting God and doing a great deal of Bible study - checking, double checking, triple checking.

As the pastor notes in his comments "the last thing I wanted to do is make a change from my current beliefs then a year or two later find out that the new position was also shot through with holes and have to make another change". ( I am paraphrasing )
 
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BobRyan

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On a related note - we have Seventh-day Adventists being affirmed as an Evangelical Christian group by the author of "Kingdom of the Cults" according to this referenced-quote on wikipedia --


"He (Walter Martin) indicated his opposition to Adventist teachings in a brief paragraph in the inaugural edition of his book The Rise of the Cults, published in 1955.[20]

"However, he reversed his views after a series of interviews with various leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and on reading Adventist literature. Martin reported his initial findings to Barnhouse, and between 1955 and 1956 a series of small conferences were held, with Barnhouse and Martin meeting Adventist leaders like T. E. Unruh and LeRoy Froom.[21][22][23]

"Barnhouse and Martin then published some of their findings in a series of articles that appeared in Eternity between September and November 1956.[24][25][26][27] The standpoint taken by Barnhouse and Martin was that Adventists were largely orthodox on central doctrines, but heterodox on lesser doctrines, and so could be classified as belonging in the Evangelical camp.

"Martin later expanded his position in his 1960 book-length treatment, The Truth About Seventh-day Adventism.[28] Martin's book carried an explanatory foreword by Barnhouse and a statement from H. W. Lowe who was the chairman of the Biblical Study and Research Group of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.[29] While Lowe did not agree with Martin's criticism of the church's distinctive doctrines he nonetheless commended the book for providing a "fair and accurate statement of Adventist teachings."[30]

"A committee of Adventist leaders themselves wrote and published a companion book, Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine, in 1957. While many Adventists welcomed the overtures of Barnhouse and Martin..."

=============== brief comment - insert

Amen to that last statement. I am an example of an Adventist that greatly appreciates both the "Questions on Doctrines" book - dealing with many of the questions Walter Martin had about Adventism, but I also enjoyed reading Martin's book "Kingdom of the Cults".

============= resume quote of wiki

"there were other Adventists who questioned the position taken by church leaders in the volume Questions on Doctrine.[31]

..."As the controversy ensued among Evangelicals Martin found it was necessary to restate and defend his position and to reply to his critics. To that end Martin reproduced much of the text of his 1960 book, together with critical replies in an appendix "The Puzzle of Seventh-day Adventism" in his 1965 textbook The Kingdom of the Cults.[39]

"Martin later updated the appendix in the 1985 edition of Kingdom of the Cults, and since his death the editors of the posthumous editions of 1997 and 2003 have continued to update it.[40]

======================= End wiki quote

I have the 1985 edition of Martin's book.

Page 409 of his book (where he devotes almost 100 pages to Adventists, out of the total of 525 pages for the entire book ) -- we find this on page 409.

"it is perfectly possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and be a true follower of Jesus"

(Martin says this does not mean he agrees with "the entire theological structure" of Adventists.)

P411 Martin says "it is our position that that Seventh-day Adventism as a denomination is essentially Christian in the sense that all denominations and groups professing Christianity are Christian if they conform to the classic mission of Christianity as given in the Bible..."

"But this does not mean that all Baptists, all Methodists, all Episcopalians, all Lutherans, or all Adventists are necessarily Christians. This is a matter between the individual and God..."

==================

in places like 433 of Martin's book - he faults Anthony Hoekema's book "The Four Major Cults" for using unconvincing, shoddy tactics in its treatment and condemnation of the Adventist faith.
 
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BobRyan

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No wonder then we find this comment - in the following article on the Seventh-day Adventist church


"Significant developments (in the public perception of Adventists) such as the reviews initiated by evangelicals Donald Barnhouse and Walter Martin, in the 20th century led to its recognition as a Christian denomination."



the point being - they are not the slowest growing denomination - by a long shot.

=========================================
ChristianityToday 2010 - Adventist church is 5th largest Christian denomination


"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."

At 23 Million in 2024 the Adventist Church is still growing world wide. (23 million is the "net" after both ascensions to the faith and departures from it are included in the numbers)

Compare to Southern Baptist world wide membership at around 13 million in this next article.

========== another interesting church growth statement


That link includes this statement from 2021

"When you sort Christians by denomination, mainline Protestants are continuing to show significant decline.
By their own membership tallies, mainline denominations are showing drops of 15 percent, 25 percent, and even 40 percent over the span of the last decade."

then it adds - "There is little room for triumph on the evangelical side; their numbers are slipping too."

In my prior post I included this quote from Walter Martin's book: "The standpoint taken by Barnhouse and Martin was that Adventists were largely orthodox on central doctrines, but heterodox on lesser doctrines, and so could be classified as belonging in the Evangelical camp."

So then its possible that they are including Adventists in that "Evangelical camp" -- I don't know if they did or did not do that.
 
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