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Mr. M

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Psalm 72:
1 Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.
2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with justice.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
4 He shall judge the poor of the people,

He shall save the children of the needy,
and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

This golden statement is one of the most passionate of many scriptures that
describes Our Father God's heart towards those who are oppressed by a minority who control the wealth, resources, and might of a people.

Psalm 82:
1 God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the gods.(rulers)
2 How long will you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.


The Testimony of the Law and the Prophets is that the afflicted ones are God's special people,
and the righteous judgment of the Son will bring them justice. Righteous Judgment is not limited to deliverance for the victims, but demands punishment for the oppressor.
With that in mind, I am proposing a Reformation from the Traditional View of Judgment.
Many if not most Christians believe that only people who confess Christ are saved, and that
everyone else is damned to hell. No surprise that many have found this doctrine offensive and
have forged an alternative Universal Reconciliation doctrine in which everyone is saved.
I will now contend that both are flawed. In fairness, I will dismiss the Traditional View first.
The Lord has shown me in my prayers and intercessions that the weakness of this doctrine results from a failure to rightly comprehend the doctrine of election, and predestined by the foreknowledge of God. The Gospel is clearly about identifying the elect sons and daughters of God, those who will fully commit to serving Him in His Kingdom.
When the New Covenant speaks of those few who enter the Kingdom of God, the elect, this is being established in this lifetime, beginning with the apostles, and those who will reign with Christ in His Kingdom and is made up of both Jews and gentiles. And who will they reign over?
Those specially chosen by the heart of the Father's Love, as is clearly established in the Law
and the prophets: the poor, the afflicted, the oppressed, the widow and the orphan, and for the sake of the Patriarchs, all of natural Israel.
The best way at this late time to interpret the scriptures is to simply observe what is happening in the world that is fulfilling the Word. That is how any teacher of eschatology engages themselves. I have contended for years that it is the wicked and cruel oppressors of mankind who will be condemned by Christ, and deliverance will come to all who call on God.
The massive damnation of mankind for any unbeliever lays fertile ground for the alternative
Universalist View. This is equally flawed by their inclusion of the wicked oppressors who will be destroyed by the Lord. So let us evaluate the present.
We have heard that 10% of the world's population controls over 90% of the world's resources.
This puts western Christians in particular who are directly engaged in the propagandized military industrial complex in a most precarious position. Another 10% of the world by statistics are living in extreme poverty. The other 80% are generically referred to as "The World" and most sit in a position other than being a believer in the Gospel. But as a global tyranny arises, the upper eschalon who controls the world will move from 10% towards what many are already saying is a 1%, "the world" will finally begin to seek deliverance. It is in this end time scenario that Joel writes "all who call on the God of Israel will be saved". This has clear and impressive results.

Revelation 7:
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, to our God forever and ever. Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, Sir, you know.
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

In conclusion, most would agree that we all, brothers and sisters, live in precarious, perilous times. If you feel that you are among the elect, then press into the Kingdom, start manifesting the sons and daughters of God to a groaning creation that is being pushed to the brink.
 
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bling

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I think you are speaking from a Western view of this world. In China under severe persecution right now the unregistered church is growing rapidly estimated today to be 175 million, both in number and spiritually. We are seeing pockets of the same thing happening in Iran, Africa, and India.

I have observed and know of Christ like people who knew little scripture and were not attending a Christian Church, when they came to learn of Christ. They had prayed to a Benevolent Creator of the universe and I know God would have listened to them. They were obeying a “law” written on their hearts, but were extremely excited to learn of Christ and obey Him.

God judges the hearts of people and thus really what they have done with what they know. Unfortunately most people do not like or want Godly type Love, but prefer to be “loved” by others for the way they want others to perceive them to be.
 
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Mr. M

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I think you are speaking from a Western view of this world. In China under severe persecution right now the unregistered church is growing rapidly estimated today to be 175 million, both in number and spiritually. We are seeing pockets of the same thing happening in Iran, Africa, and India.
To be clear, you are talking about millions here. As the world population swells toward 10 BILLION, if the true believers who
are among the elect number 1 billion, that's easy math is it not?
I have observed and know of Christ like people who knew little scripture and were not attending a Christian Church, when they came to learn of Christ. They had prayed to a Benevolent Creator of the universe and I know God would have listened to them. They were obeying a “law” written on their hearts, but were extremely excited to learn of Christ and obey Him.
That's good news, and supports my position.
God judges the hearts of people and thus really what they have done with what they know. Unfortunately most people do not like or want Godly type Love, but prefer to be “loved” by others for the way they want others to perceive them to be.
That's a fact, Jack! thanks for your response.
 
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bling

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To be clear, you are talking about millions here. As the world population swells toward 10 BILLION, if the true believers who
are among the elect number 1 billion, that's easy math is it not?

That's good news, and supports my position.

That's a fact, Jack! thanks for your response.
Good.
40 years ago Christians in China was estimated to have dropped from 2 million to zero. There was no male leadership left alive for the most part. Yet today the number of Christians in China is doubling every few years. Five years ago there were crosses going up, Church buildings being built for unregistered churches and even some of the registered churches were preaching wonderful sermons. That has stopped, unregistered churches have been flattened, crosses torn down, cameras have been placed in registered churches and the Communist have rewritten the "bible" to include communism, and more. This has caused the church to go back to hidden house churches, but also revived the growth.
The system Christ established was; Christ living in and through members, mentoring a small group, to produce members who allow Christ to work through them mentoring a small group, so if you have just one in the small group per year to go out on his/her own with a small group (this could mean splitting up the group every year on average), than in 36 years you run out of people on earth to be in small groups (all 10 billion) would be in small groups.
 
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Clare73

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Psalm 72:
1 Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.
2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with justice.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
4 He shall judge the poor of the people,

He shall save the children of the needy,
and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

This golden statement is one of the most passionate of many scriptures that
describes Our Father God's heart towards those who are oppressed by a minority who control the wealth, resources, and might of a people.

Psalm 82:
1 God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the gods.(rulers)
2 How long will you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
The Testimony of the Law and the Prophets is that
the afflicted ones are God's special people,
These are written to God's people, about God's people, Israel--not about the world.
Israel was not to go out among the unclean world and deliver the poor and oppressed.

and the righteous judgment of the Son will bring them justice. Righteous Judgment is not limited to deliverance for the victims, but demands punishment for the oppressor.
With that in mind, I am proposing a Reformation from the Traditional View of Judgment.
Many if not most Christians believe that only people who confess Christ are saved, and that
everyone else is damned to hell. No surprise that many have found this doctrine offensive and
have forged an alternative Universal Reconciliation doctrine in which everyone is saved.

I will now contend that both are flawed. In fairness, I will dismiss the Traditional View first.
The Lord has shown me in my prayers and intercessions that the weakness of this doctrine results from a failure to rightly comprehend the doctrine of election, and predestined by the foreknowledge of God.
The Gospel is clearly about identifying the elect sons and daughters of God,
The gospel is about presenting God's terms for salvation from his condemnation on all mankind
(
Romans 5:18).
those who will fully commit to serving Him in His Kingdom.
The gospel is not about the elect building or maintaining a "Kingdom."
The kingdom is spiritual--invisible and within (Luke 17:20-21). It is not of the world (John 18:36).
The gospel is about faith in and obedience to Jesus Christ for the sake of God's purpose; i.e., the preparation of the glorious bride for the Lamb.

When the New Covenant speaks of those few who enter the Kingdom of God,
the elect, this is being established in this lifetime, beginning with the apostles,
God's elect are from all mankind, not just the NT.
and those who will reign with Christ in His Kingdom and is made up of both Jews and gentiles. And who will they reign over?
Reign does not mean over other people.
We are reigning with Christ now (Ephesians 2:20-23, Ephesians 3:6).
Those specially chosen by the heart of the Father's Love, as is clearly established in the Law and the prophets: the poor, the afflicted, the oppressed, the widow and the orphan, and for the sake of the Patriarchs, all of natural Israel.
That is not what is established in NT apostolic teaching regarding the elect.
The best way at this late time to interpret the scriptures
The best way at this time, and any other time, to interpret the Scriptures hasn't changed, it is always according to authoritative NT apostolic teaching, where the specially chosen by the heart of the Father's love are the elect, saved by faith in Jesus Christ, who walk in obedience and are being prepared by the Father to be the glorious bride of the Lamb.
is to simply observe what is happening in the world that is fulfilling the Word. That is how
any teacher of eschatology engages themselves. I have contended for years that it is the wicked and cruel oppressors of mankind who will be condemned by Christ, and deliverance will come to all who call on God.
That may be true, but it does not account for all the wicked that are converted, and mostly for the fact that NT apostolic teaching is that deliverance is based on saving faith in Jesus Christ, which is demonstrated in how one treats the brethren of Christ, the born again.
The massive damnation of mankind for any unbeliever lays fertile ground for the alternative Universalist view.
So we must trim the sail of the gospel with the jib of Universalism?
We don't change NT apostolic teaching for the sake of refuting secular views.
This is equally flawed by their inclusion of the wicked oppressors who will be destroyed by the Lord. So let us evaluate the present.
We have heard that 10% of the world's population controls over 90% of the world's resources.
This puts western Christians in particular who are directly engaged in the propagandized military industrial complex in a most precarious position. Another 10% of the world by statistics are living in extreme poverty. The other 80% are generically referred to as "The World" and most sit in a position other than being a believer in the Gospel. But as a global tyranny arises, the upper eschalon who controls the world will move from 10% towards what many are already saying is a 1%, "the world" will finally begin to seek deliverance.
It is in this end time scenario that Joel writes
"all who call on the God of Israel will be saved". This has clear and impressive results.
And assumes your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles, apart from and in contradiction to NT apostolic teaching, is correct.
Revelation 7:
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, to our God forever and ever. Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, Sir, you know.
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
In conclusion, most would agree that we all, brothers and sisters, live in precarious, perilous times. If you feel that you are among the elect, then press into the Kingdom, start manifesting the sons and daughters of God to a groaning creation that is being pushed to the brink.
Your eschatology is driving your soteriology. . .into error.

Bring your eschatology into line with NT apostolic teaching, beginning with the following which alters much of your interpretation of prophetic riddles, and there will be no need to reform your soteriology to agree with your eschatology.

In NT apostolic teaching of specific locations of the final events, all are specifically located in the last day:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurence,

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making the resurrection also to be of all mankind).

All Scripture is to be understood in the light of the NT.
Your understanding of prophetic riddles is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching.
 
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Mr. M

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Psalm 34:
12
What man is he that desires life, and loves many days,
that he may see goodness?
13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.
14 Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.
15 The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
16 The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17
The righteous cry, and the Lord hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles.
18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saves such as be of a contrite spirit.
19
Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivers him out of them all.

Psalm 37:
37
Mark the blameless man, and observe the upright;
For the future of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together;
The future of the wicked shall be cut off.
39
But the salvation of the righteous is from the Lord;
He is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the Lord shall help them and deliver them;
He shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them,
Because they trust in Him.
 
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Clare73

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Psalm 11:
5
The Lord tries the righteous: but the wicked and
him that loves violence his soul hates.
6
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and a horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
7 For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Psalm 34:
12
What man is he that desires life, and loves many days,
that he may see goodness?
13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.
14 Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.
15 The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
16 The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17
The righteous cry, and the Lord hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles.
18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saves such as be of a contrite spirit.
19
Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivers him out of them all.

Psalm 37:
37
Mark the blameless man, and observe the upright;
For the future of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together;
The future of the wicked shall be cut off.
39
But the salvation of the righteous is from the Lord;
He is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the Lord shall help them and deliver them;
He shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them,
Because they trust in Him.

Psalm 145:
17
The Lord is righteous in all His ways,
Gracious in all His works.
18 The Lord is near to all who call upon Him,
To all who call upon Him in truth.
19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him;
He also will hear their cry and save them.
20 The Lord preserves all who love Him,
But all the wicked He will destroy.
The Biblical definition of righteous and wicked being based on faith in and obedience to Jesus Christ, and on no other standard.
 
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Mr. M

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These are written to God's people, Israel, not to the world.
Israel was not to go out among the unclean world and deliver the poor and oppressed.
He will do it Himself. Second Coming.
The Biblical definition of righteous and wicked being based on faith in and obedience to Jesus Christ, and on no other standard.
I am well aware of righteousness by faith.
I had never heard of wickedness by the measure of faith alone.
That is not how the scriptures describe the wicked, and the
scriptures cannot be broken.
Thanks for sharing your interpretation. Interesting. We will see.
 
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Clare73

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He will do it Himself. Second Coming.
According to authoritative NT apostolic teaching (presented at the bottom of post #5), the second coming is the end of time and the beginning of eternity.
I am well aware of righteousness by faith.
I had never heard of wickedness by the measure of faith alone.
That is not how the scriptures describe the wicked
, and the scriptures cannot be broken.
It is in the light of the NT.
There is no righteousness apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
Thanks for sharing your interpretation. Interesting. We will see.
We will see if the apostles got it right, or not (in post #5, above).
 
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Mr. M

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It is in the light of the NT.
There is no righteousness apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
So for you, no righteousness equals wickedness, rather than
unsaved. Are you saying "the light of the NT" nullifies the OT,
in particular, the words of David, the Lord's Anointed Psalmist,
who spoke by the same Spirit?
 
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Mr. M

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Psalm 9:
15
The nations have sunk down in the pit which they made;
In the net which they hid, their own foot is caught.
16 The Lord is known by the judgment He executes;
The wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.
Meditation. Selah
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell,
And all the nations that forget God.
18 For the needy shall not always be forgotten;
The expectation of the poor shall not perish forever.
19
Arise, O Lord,
Do not let man prevail;
Let the nations be judged in Your sight.
20 Put them in fear, O Lord,
That the nations may know themselves to be but men
 
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Clare73

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So for you, no righteousness equals wickedness, rather than unsaved.
All are born condemned (Romans 5:18); i.e., wicked and unsaved.
Are you saying "the light of the NT" nullifies the OT,
The light of the NT determines the meaning of the OT.
in particular, the words of David, the Lord's Anointed Psalmist,
who spoke by the same Spirit?
Which Spirit did not give complete/full revelation in the OT.

Did the Spirit reveal that the OT sacrifices were a foreshadow of the bloody sacrifice of the divine incarnate Son of God?
 
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Mr. M

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Psalm 145:
17
The Lord is righteous in all His ways,
Gracious in all His works.
18 The Lord is near to all who call upon Him,
To all who call upon Him in truth.
19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him;
He also will hear their cry and save them.
20 The Lord preserves all who love Him,
But all the wicked He will destroy.
 
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Mr. M

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Psalm 11:
5
The Lord tries the righteous: but the wicked and
him that loves violence his soul hates.
6
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone,
and a horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
7 For the righteous Lord loves righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
 
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