Joyce Meyer's Everyday Life Bible

[hopperace]

Everyday Life Bible – the power of God’s Word for everyday living, by Joyce Meyer, from FaithWords publishers.

I’ll frankly admit I’m not an avid follower of Joyce Meyer, though I appreciate her no-nonsense approach to spiritual warfare and life in general. My disappointment with the Everyday Life Bible has nothing to do with Meyer’s admirable contribution of ample notes to the project, which are interspersed every few pages or so. Many wielders of the Amplified Bible have long esteemed the study features built right into the text of the Amplified translation, and have beggared Zondervan, the publisher, (or rather perhaps, the Lockman Foundation) for years to make available a study Bible similar to its other top-shelf offerings in the NIV. The Everyday Life Bible, FaithWords’ first venture into Bible publishing, however, makes for a nice devotional Bible seemingly designed more after Zondervan’s NIV Women’s (and Men’s and Couple’s) Devotional Bibles than any study Bibles on the market. It’s a large Bible with very readable sized print that’s a type point size or two above the norm, but it has the briefest of book introductions and a helpful but skimpy topical concordance. Other than Meyer’s themed notes it’s rather apropos that “study” is not part of its title, and one has to wonder at what sort of response such a large Bible will have to what I would deem to primarily be a women’s target demographic.

For some reason of personal yearning, I was anticipating another great word-study resource somewhat on the order of the Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible meets the Life Application Study Bible, but was met with an oversized Inspirational Study Bible that seems out of place with the Amplified translation. In all fairness and support of FaithWord’s efforts, I would have given a similar review to Kay Arthur’s Inductive Study Bible, which has been a great resource to a similarly constructed target-audience.

Your thoughts?

 

[msbojingles]

I haven't seen her study bible, HOWEVER ~ Depending on the response (meaning, number of copies sold) other publishing companies may take a que and begin offering study bibles in the amplified version. The "improving over time" concept.

I've long wanted a good study bible in the amplified version. I've got a pretty good study bible in the NKJV, which I used to love, but more and more I don't care for the KJV's anymore.

But if other companies see a consumer desire to have study bibles in that version, they may just take the steps to provide it. (They want those $$ after all )

 

[MikeMcK]

Everyday Life Bible – the power of God’s Word for everyday living, by Joyce Meyer, from FaithWords publishers.

Joyce Meyer's got her own Bible now?

 

[JTM3]

Yes it's horrifying

And I know it's pointless...but it really is sort of fun in way...it's a sport...if not a weird one

Just so long as I keep from having a nuclear meltdown

Oh good grief man get a hold of yourself!!

Get a sense of humor, and a life while you're at it.


Oops, a triple post...can someone delete my other post or something?

 

[msbojingles]

 

[freemansw]

Amen brother! As a fellow Republican, and a former Sergeant in the Marines, I can say I am with you.

 

[MikeMcK]

Amen brother! As a fellow Republican, and a former Sergeant in the Marines, I can say I am with you.

Thank you.

Semper Fi!

 

[kidsminister]

So, anyway...getting back to the topic...

Tell me more about the study Bible - I'd like to know what people think about it!!

 

[pauldst]

I would love to have a good Amplified Study Bible. Joyce Meyer having a part of it would be an added bonus. Unfortunately I own 3 Amplified Bibles now (I know, I should give one away, but not the one that was my wife's, and one of the other two has a broken binding) and from what you've said, Ciborium, this does not sound like a good purchase for me. But then there is the problem of that if it doesn't sell they may not try again. Hmmm, maybe a Christmas gift for someone....

 

[hopperace]

I really appreciate your open and honest comments – and that means each of you. I’m told Charismatic Christians are the most well-read, and I can certainly attest that they’ve been more responsive than my gleanings in other forums concerning my Bible reviews. I understand we meandered a bit (I’m a meanderer myself), and I’m no doubt a little out of the loop of past dialogs with the gang here in the Spirit-Filled – Pentecostal / Charismatic congregational forums, but I’ve actually found each of the comments pertinent to an evaluation of the Everyday Life Bible.

I’m not going to use the quote thingies or mention each of you by name, but let me begin by confirming that Bible publishers are indeed very sensitive to the bottom line in terms of revenue expectations for products offered. There have been many Bibles targeted to specific demographics which, when failing to live up to expectations, have quickly been discontinued. And publishers are most eager to tap every imaginable demographic – one has to but consider the recently released Duct-Tape Bible to gain an awareness of this.

Oddly enough I find MikeMcK’s initial comments quite apropos as well. As I indicated, I don’t regularly follow Joyce Meyer, and realize many Christians have difficulties and differences with parts of the Scriptures that aren’t as clear as we might wish them to be – like Jesus descending into hell. I’ll have to reevaluate her stand on the Atonement, but she would be the first to admit that she has gained a wealth of wisdom through her past mistakes and life trials where she has failed miserably. I personally wouldn’t be very receptive to a book on virginity by Paris Hilton, but I can see where she may be hopefully learning some hard lessons that the LORD can certainly redeem to a future significant offering of insight in ways I haven’t had to experience - (anyone remember the ‘murderers', Moses, David, and Saul/Paul?). And as for Joyce’s offering of Bible insights, I believe that there is a wealth of sound advice in the Everyday Life Bible that even MikeMcK would praise, even if, like myself, he may have strong disagreements with some of Mrs. Meyer’s ministry and doctrinal 'misunderstandings'.

To point, for example, the Everyday Life Bible is the first foray into Bible publishing by the secular Warner Faith imprint (FaithWords), who is trying to capture a share of the Christian publishing market, which has boomed in recent years. In my opinion, Warner is interested in a financial windfall, not a ministerial one, but has also added Joel Osteen and other prominent Christian authors to its ranks. Christian product is big business these days, and I find it advisable to lend a cautious eye to the marriage of God and mammon. I’m sure it’s a whole other subject for its own thread, but some are very discouraged by Christian authors ‘jumping ship’, as it were, while others are highly encouraged by the new avenues being opened up to the Gospel. It remains to be seen how ‘pure’ or ‘compromised’ it all will be, and lest any think it’s just Charismatics involved, most of the Christian publishing and music industries are wholly owned subsidiaries of secular enterprise now.

I do think there’s a right way and a wrong way to offer criticism. Jesus could be very harsh in some of his comments, but he never seemed to ridicule. On the subjects of hell and eternal punishment, and worshipping in spirit and in truth, he was particularly insistent and non-politically correct. I find some wonderful, quite practical, and no-nonsense life-advice in the Everyday Life Bible and much of Meyer’s works and ministry; but wherever there is clear error, it ought to be lovingly addressed.

I’d still be quite receptive to a more thorough study Bible proper in the Amplified Version, and there are few proponents of the Amplified that have the influence that Joyce Meyer’s ministries does. My main concern over the Everyday Life Bile, without thoroughly checking out any doctrinal concerns of that overly dramatic “false teacher” label, is that I can’t see it catching on to the demographic I’m assuming it is intended for – it’s just soooo big for what seems to be a devotional or inspirational Bible primarily for women. Help me out Charismatics - am I wrong in thinking Meyer’s ministry is weighted towards women, and that Charismatic women prefer dainty little Bibles to big, bulky larger printed ones? Am I being too sexist or too Reformed (I’m a Calvinistic Presbyterian) in my evaluation?

Thanks.

 

[MikeMcK]

Oddly enough I find MikeMcK’s initial comments quite apropos as well. As I indicated, I don’t regularly follow Joyce Meyer, and realize many Christians have difficulties and differences with parts of the Scriptures that aren’t as clear as we might wish them to be – like Jesus descending into hell.

But the problem is that the Bible isn't ambiguous at all about this. The Bible states emphatically that Jesus was (and is) sinless.

It also tells us that Jesus did not descend to g'enna, but to she'ol. That is, he did not descend to the place of fiery punishment that's translated as "Hell", but to the grave, the place of the righteous dead that's translated as "Hell".

It's also clear that the reason He descended was to preach the Gospel to the righteous Jews of the OT, NEVER to suffer as a sinner.

She cannot hide behind the argument that the Bible isn't clear because it's crystal clear on these points.

And not one place in the scriptures where she can put together the argument that Jesus is a sinner or that He had to go to Hell to suffer as a sinner to earn His own salvation before He could purchase ours.

In fact, if what Meyer is saying is true, then not only is God a liar, but Jesus is a fool! If her teaching is true, then He is an unacceptable sacrifice, and we have no hope of salvation. It also means, since Meyer's sinful Jesus could earn His own atonement, then any sinful man must be able to do the same thing.

I’ll have to reevaluate her stand on the Atonement, but she would be the first to admit that she has gained a wealth of wisdom through her past mistakes and life trials where she has failed miserably.

Two problems with this.

First of all, several people have tried to correct her on this. Rather than considering the merits of their arguments and repenting for her heresy, she has attacked them.

Second, we're not talking about "past mistakes" or "life trials". We're talking about what the Bible calls "damnable heresy".

And as for Joyce’s offering of Bible insights, I believe that there is a wealth of sound advice in the Everyday Life Bible that even MikeMcK would praise, even if, like myself, he may have strong disagreements with some of Mrs. Meyer’s ministry and doctrinal 'misunderstandings'.

Actually, I wouldn't. The Bible tells us to consider them to be anathema and have nothing to do with them.

Given that, why would I give ear to anything she says?

Again, I would point out that these things are not "misunderstandings". They're heresies.

I do think there’s a right way and a wrong way to offer criticism. Jesus could be very harsh in some of his comments, but he never seemed to ridicule.

Actually, He ridiculed the Pharisees quite a bit.

On the subjects of hell and eternal punishment, and worshipping in spirit and in truth, he was particularly insistent and non-politically correct. I find some wonderful, quite practical, and no-nonsense life-advice in the Everyday Life Bible and much of Meyer’s works and ministry; but wherever there is clear error, it ought to be lovingly addressed.

How many heresies must someone teach before you consider them a false teacher?

My main concern over the Everyday Life Bile, without thoroughly checking out any doctrinal concerns of that overly dramatic “false teacher” label

Why do you think the Bible is being "overly dramatic" when it calls these people false teachers?

 

[hopperace]

Brother Mike,

But as I stated, the Bible is unclear on details of "Jesus descending into hell", and this is where Meyer's mistep, as those of many an ardent Bible reader trying to discern from silence, has it's place - like many of the wide range of differences, and yes, even heresies in many segments of the one Church.

And even in this thread you have agreed with teachings of Joyce Meyer's that are sound and practical. And it's obvious to me that you are more well-read on much of her material than I, even if you don't "give an ear to" them, by your understanding of the phrase.

And I would characterize Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisees as stern and accurate, not as ridicule, per Webster's definition of the term.

As to "how many heresies", I find that a fair and excellent question. By the standard I take you to offer, each of us might easily be considered a "false teacher" if there is any error in us at all. And we both have demonstrated error in this thread alone. I reason that the Bible usually makes a distinction between "false teacher", and what we might consider say, Peter guilty of in his denial in the Garden or John Mark in his leaving Paul, or again the Church's long struggle with legalistic aspects of Judaism flavoring the very Council in Jerusalem. It's just my appraisal, but I think I would have the support of other well-defined Christians, as no doubt would you, in the differences we discern.

I'm not your enemy, brother - not that I think that you think I am, and neither is Joyce. You may rightly battle the teaching of errors, as you reason to be led by the Spirit to do so, and I have no way of verifying her status before God without stepping into God's shoes, but I have ample reason to believe she is a beloved child of God, and her personal testimony of faith as such.

Thanks for you input and clarifications,

-kib

 

[JTM3]

[/font]

But the problem is that the Bible isn't ambiguous at all about this. The Bible states emphatically that Jesus was (and is) sinless.

It also tells us that Jesus did not descend to g'enna, but to she'ol. That is, he did not descend to the place of fiery punishment that's translated as "Hell", but to the grave, the place of the righteous that's translated as "Hell".

It's also clear that the reason He descended was to preach the Gospel to the righteous Jews of the OT, NEVER to suffer as a sinner.

She cannot hide behind the argument that the Bible isn't clear because it's crystal clear on these points.

And not one place in the scriptures where she can put together the argument that Jesus is a sinner or that He had to go to Hell to suffer as a sinner to earn His own salvation before He could purchase ours.

In fact, if what Meyer is saying is true, then not only is God a liar, but Jesus is a fool! If her teaching is true, then He is an unacceptable sacrifice, and we have no hope of salvation. It also means, since Meyer's sinful Jesus could earn His own atonement, then any sinful man must be able to do the same thing.



Two problems with this.

First of all, several people have tried to correct her on this. Rather than considering the merits of their arguments and repenting for her heresy, she has attacked them.

Second, we're not talking about "past mistakes" or "life trials". We're talking about what the Bible calls "damnable heresy".



Actually, I wouldn't. The Bible tells us to consider them to be anathema and have nothing to do with them.

Given that, why would I give ear to anything she says?

Again, I would point out that these things are not "misunderstandings". They're heresies.



Actually, He ridiculed the Pharisees quite a bit.



How many heresies must someone teach before you consider them a false teacher?



Why do you think the Bible is being "overly dramatic" when it calls these people false teachers?

Mind posting some Scripture?

 

[MikeMcK]

Brother Mike,

But as I stated, the Bible is unclear on details of "Jesus descending into hell", and this is where Meyer's mistep, as those of many an ardent Bible reader trying to discern from silence, has it's place - like many of the wide range of differences, and yes, even heresies in many segments of the one Church.

But it isn't unclear. Even if it were, she's been corrected, so she still has no excuse.

And even in this thread you have agreed with teachings of Joyce Meyer's that are sound and practical.

Actually, I haven't.

And I would characterize Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisees as stern and accurate, not as ridicule, per Webster's definition of the term.

Given the cutting way in which He rebuked them, such as telling them that they were making their followers "twice as much a child of Hell as they were before" and calling them "whitewashed sepulchers", I don't see how you can say that it's anything other than ridicule.

As to "how many heresies", I find that a fair and excellent question. By the standard I take you to offer, each of us might easily be considered a "false teacher" if there is any error in us at all.

Once again, you're confusing a mistake with a false teaching.

One can be sincerely mistaken and teach an errant doctrine, or even a sound doctrine errantly, without being a false teacher.

One can also err on what Paul calls "disputable matters" without being a false teacher.

However, Meyer's heresy doesn't concern such peripheral issues, it cuts to the heart of the Gospel: the sufficiency of Christ's atonement.

It's also important to note that the Bible does differentiate between someone who knowingly and deliberately continues to teach a false doctrine and someone who teaches a false doctrine, but accepts correction and repents of that false teaching.

Meyer, in spite of having been corrected several times continues to teach this blasphemous and damnable heresy.

You're attempting to defend that which is indefensible.

I'm not your enemy, brother - not that I think that you think I am, and neither is Joyce.

Actually, by setting herself up as an enemy of God, she has become an enemy of the people of God.

You may rightly battle the teaching of errors, as you reason to be led by the Spirit to do so, and I have no way of verifying her status before God without stepping into God's shoes, but I have ample reason to believe she is a beloved child of God, and her testimony of faith as such.

I cannot say that she is a child of God. I cannot believe that a child of God would pervert God's word for profit the way that she is.

I also cannot reconcile the idea that she is a child of God with the fact that God has said that He is going to throw false teachers into the Lake of Fire.

That alone tells us that she is not a child of God, but an enemy of God.

 

[JTM3]

whatever

 

[flaglady]

This thread is TEMPORARILY being closed for review.

 

[pdudgeon]

this thread has been re-opened for posting. please remember to stay on topic.

 

[hopperace]

OP hat on.
Thanks pdudgeon, and please forgive our meandering and/or other matters where we have caused you trouble and extra work, or interfered with orderly and respectful discussion. I'll try to do better, but we Presbyterians are a rowdy bunch. I hope I've not been too out-of-line to post here to begin with? I've really enjoyed what Spirit-Filled Christians have had to say. Thanks.
OP hat off.


“But it isn’t unclear.” – Not to God it isn’t, certainly; but the Bible does not explain (and isn’t intended to explain) all of the questions even many Spirit-filled Christians throughout the ages have had concerning what I have addressed. God doesn’t give us all of the details we may like to know. The Bible gives us what God had deemed right to tell us, and even over this there is a wide range of interpretation. In what the Scriptures are silent about there is even more speculation.

“Actually, I haven’t” – Well then I don’t mean to offend you, but I don’t see how your claim is not a denial of visual evidences. Your admonitions on conflict resolution and ‘name calling’ presented earlier in the thread are quite consistent with Meyer’s teachings in the Everyday Life Bible. I realize it may also be uncomforting for you to admit to, and I’m fine with your bowing out on the matter. It’s difficult for me to sometimes find myself in a position where Jesus would say, “Get thee behind me, Satan”, but I have to honestly admit that these times have happened in my life, even though I’d view myself as having the best of intentions, just as Peter did; and I don’t know of a more accurate designation of “false teacher” than Satan.

“I don’t see how you can say it is anything other than ridicule.” – Then forgive me if I find your definition of ridicule far different than that of common usage found in Webster’s Dictionary. Varying definitions of terminology often cause misunderstandings and undue conflict on discussion boards. Forgive me if the usage of ridicule is different where you are.

“Once again, you’re confusing a mistake with a false teaching.” – I beg to differ. I reason that I am not confused on the matter at all, and I apologize if I have given you some aspect of confusion or stumbling. I’m very certain of my word usage. The Bible clearly indicates that sin is sin in God’s eyes – if a thing is false then it is false and not true. I will admit there is a gap and disparity in your application of the term false to teaching, of which you are availing yourself to perhaps disparage Joyce Meyer’s teaching as non-Christian or even anti-Christian per your comparative characterizations from your first post in this thread. This allows you to claim Joyce Meyer is a “false teacher” in the sense that each of us is, but not in the further clarifications particular to usage of that term (“false teacher&#8221 in the Christian Scriptures.

If you have read or even skimmed the Everyday Life Bible I would appreciate your further comments on the matter, but you have indicated that you have not and will not. If your intent is simply to deride all things Joyce Meyer without personal knowledge of the Everyday Life Bible, I would humbly ask you to take it to another thread, perhaps somewhere outside this congregational forum, where your views and comments would be more apropos. Thank you, brother, for your concerns for orthodoxy and a careful eye toward false teachings.

For those interested in the teaching of Joyce Meyer in the Everyday Life Bible, she repeatedly affirms the divinity and sinless state of Jesus, and that he died for our sins. She calls Him the “Righteous Seed”, and says “Jesus was always obedient to the Father”. I can see where there might be some confusion in her presentation of where sin begins or what constitutes actual sin, from an orthodox perspective. She writes, for example, “Hebrews 4:15 states that Jesus experienced every emotion and suffered every feeling you and I do, but He did it without sin”, and later, “Jesus had the same feelings we do, but He never sinned by giving in to them.”

There are many key Scriptures (for example, where Jesus asks, “Why do you call Me [essentially and perfectly morally] good? No one is [essentially and perfectly morally] good – except God only” (Luke 18:19, Amplified), where, if Joyce had wanted to make some claim that Jesus was not sinless, there was ample opportunity to do so (in the Everyday Life Bible - and she is nothing put orthodox in her comments on each of the crucifixion passages, including the 1 Peter passage alluded to earlier), but, in as far as I researched on many key Scriptures, she consistently affirms the divinity, sinless state, and orthodox position on the atonement of Christ.

Thanks,

-kib