joshua the son of nun - son of perpetuity - god incarnate ?

[bluemarkus]

hello apostates, sectarians and charlatanes of the unorthodox forum...

i came across this youtube video the other day (i´m still wasting too much time with youtube *sigh*) and there was this video from a weird guy that had founded an even weirder organization, something like "the centre for metaphysical research" or something like that in the LA area in California.
And he said in one video that was from the 70s or 80s, that Joshua the son of Nun, the guy that led the children of Israel into the romised land, was actually jehova god incarnate in the flesh.

and first i thought wow that was weird, but after some thinking:

- he was a warrior and the israelites at that time had a slave mentality and were afraid to fight, without a strong leader they wouldnt have had a chance to make it to canaan let alone drive out the other tribes that had iron chariots, and there were also giants there.we also know from the scriptures that god is angry with the wicked every day, is slow to anger but when the measure is full he will remove the wickedness from the earth to give way to a new seed a new chance.

- he is the son of NUN the son of perpetuity. that is pretty much what God the father is. he is without end or beginning, because he is a spirit and lives forever, the son of nun.

- it says nothing about joshua being married or begetting children in the scripture, joshua also has no genealogy like other heros of old have in the book of chronicles.

does anybody want to add anything or pass me back a thought ?

i am also interested in the character joshua because it has personal ties into my life. it is a theme and person god has confronted me with time and again in personal devotional time, bible study etc.

cheers

MB

 

[jgleason]

I know this was posted back in May but I just came across this and joined the forum. I can answer your questions on this subject, if you are still interested?

 

[jgleason]

Another thing to remember when looking into this subject is that the Hebrew, Greek, nor Latin languages had a letter "J" or a letter that makes the sound of a letter "J". The letter "J" was the last letter of the English alphabet to be adopted, as the 26th letter.

When looking into the history of the letter "J" it descends from the letter "i" and that from the letter "Y". All words in the Bible that start with the letter "J" would have originally started with a "Y". That being the case, the name "Joshua" would not have been pronounced "Joshua", it would have been pronounced with a "Y"; "Yashua/Yeshua/Oshea", the name of the Messiah when he walked the earth plane 2000 years ago.

1st Corinthians 10:1-4 blatantly answers this mystery emphatically and precisely.

Moreover brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And all were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And all did drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:AND THAT ROCK WAS THE MESSIAH/CHRIST.

Doesn't get much more plain and up front than that...
Jim G

 

[tmanz12]

That's a bit far fetched. Yeshua/Joshua/Hoshea was a very common name among Hebrews.

Joshua
His name was Hoshea the son of Nun, of the tribe of Ephraim, but Moses called him Joshua. Joshua died at the age of 110.

Nun
Nun is the Father of Joshua. His name means "fish". He was a man from the tribe of Ephraim, grandson of Ammihud, son of Elishama.

Numbers 1:10
10 from the sons of Joseph:
from Ephraim, Elishama son of Ammihud;
from Manasseh, Gamaliel son of Pedahzur;

1 Chronicles Chapter 7

25 And Rephah was his son, and Resheph, and Telah his son, and Tahan his son;

26 Ladan his son, Ammihud his son, Elishama his son;


27 Nun his son, Joshua his son.




He wasn't God.

 

[A New Dawn]

The OT is chock full of people and events that point to Christ. This is only one of them.

 

[BarryK]

hello apostates, sectarians and charlatanes of the unorthodox forum...

i came across this youtube video the other day (i´m still wasting too much time with youtube *sigh*) and there was this video from a weird guy that had founded an even weirder organization, something like "the centre for metaphysical research" or something like that in the LA area in California.
And he said in one video that was from the 70s or 80s, that Joshua the son of Nun, the guy that led the children of Israel into the romised land, was actually jehova god incarnate in the flesh.

and first i thought wow that was weird, but after some thinking:

- he was a warrior and the israelites at that time had a slave mentality and were afraid to fight, without a strong leader they wouldnt have had a chance to make it to canaan let alone drive out the other tribes that had iron chariots, and there were also giants there.we also know from the scriptures that god is angry with the wicked every day, is slow to anger but when the measure is full he will remove the wickedness from the earth to give way to a new seed a new chance.

- he is the son of NUN the son of perpetuity. that is pretty much what God the father is. he is without end or beginning, because he is a spirit and lives forever, the son of nun.

- it says nothing about joshua being married or begetting children in the scripture, joshua also has no genealogy like other heros of old have in the book of chronicles.

does anybody want to add anything or pass me back a thought ?

i am also interested in the character joshua because it has personal ties into my life. it is a theme and person god has confronted me with time and again in personal devotional time, bible study etc.

cheers

MB

Joshua 5:13-15 (KJV)
13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.



If the premise is correct, why then is the son of Nun, worshiping The Captain of host of The Lord? ( i.e. a "Theophany", a.k.a. a pre incarnate appearence of Jesus)

 

[jgleason]

There are many ways to "prove" that Joshua was yahshua/Jesus. To just point out that Joshua worshipped before the captain of the hostsa of Yahweh/the Lord does not disprove anything. Jesus bowed and worshiped and prayed to yahweh/the Lord throughout the Gospels. If Jesus is "God" then why does he do this?

I am not trying to be difficult, just having a discussion. I know many may be offended at the idea of this(Joshua being Yahshua/Jesus). There are many other questions that should also be pointed out. What about in Numbers the 11th chapter when the children of Israel ask for meat? Yahweh/the Lord sends qualk more than they can eat for a month. Just before this takes place, the Holy Spirit is poured out on the elders, who then prophesy.

At this point, two men who are not among the elders at the Tabernacle prophesy throughtou the camp. Joshua asks Moses if he should forbid them and Moses answers that he wishes all of the children of Israel should prophesy. If Joshua was "God" why would he ask this question of Moses? It is because he is playing a role, instituting everything that is fulfilled later when he comes as the Messiah. This was fulfillefed when the Apostles went out and were casting out demons. There was a man that was not an apostle but was casting out in yahshua's/Jesus' name. They asked is they should forbid him. Yahshua/Jesus replied, no, if they are not for us then they are against us. Somtimes Joshua of the Old Testament plays a role that seems to be opposite but will be fulfilled later when he comes as Messiah.

I suggest looking at Joshua the 10th chapter. Here Joshua specifically shows Satan what he will do to Yahshua(himself) on the day of the crucifiction. Only Joshua does it to the 5 kings he defeats(5/Penta-cost).He hangs them from trees until sunset, then puts them in a cave and seals it with a stone, etc.

Unfortunately, these words will likely fall on deaf ears, if you do not have an understanding of the vision and revelation that Moses recieved, Elijah recieved, John on Patmos recieved, and we must recieve as well then this will all seem bizarre, silly, and yes, far-fetched.

Jim

 

[tmanz12]

The spirit of God can not dwell with sin. Joshua son of Nun had a human father, grandfather, and mother etc. Jesus(Christ) is God on earth born of a virgin, and he is without sin. If there was sin in Jesus he wouldn't have been able to die for us as a worthy sacrifice. Meaning his death would be bunk. God cant sin nor can he have sin. Joshua had sin and was born into it. That's why you have to offer a sin offering when you have kids, because they're born into the sins of their fathers.

 

[jgleason]

I truly sense your love of the Holy Spirit and so I answer this with that in mind. I do not expect anyone to really agree with this becasue it is so diametrically opposed to what the world understands about the Godhead. I will make a response to your statement though. Look at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. This states that the TRUE GOSPEL is the DEATH, BURIAL, and RESURRECTION of Yahshua the Messiah, unless we have believed in vain(and we have not, halleluyah!).

I want you to notice one small detail, it says that he died, was buried, and ROSE AGAIN! It say he rose AGAIN! What does that mean? Read the end of the book of Joshua, it states that he died after he adressed the children of Israel. Then start reading Judges 1:1, it emphatically states "After the death of Joshua..." and then goes into great detail about how the children of Israel did not remove the surrounding nations that had inhabited Canaan land as they had promised they would. So then the "Angel of Yahweh/the Lord" appears to address them all. Once he is done addressing them all AS the ANGEL OF YAHWEH/THE LORD, then it sayd AGAIN, Joshua died. This is because he was and is the ever present and omnipotent, unlimited creator of the universe. He inhabited sinful bodies throughout the Old Testament before the Holy Spirit was poured out on mankind at Pentacost. Back then he went from body to body(prophet to prophet) until Pentacost.

I dont expect this to convince anyone but to simply plant the seed and let the Holy Spirit do the work in sprouting in your heart and mind, manifesting in your heart. All praise Yahshua, halleluyah!

 

[jgleason]

Oshea/Hoshea-Concordance #1954; Deliverer
Jehoshua-Concordance #3091; "Yah" saves
Nun-Concordance #5126; perpetuity(without beginning or end)

 

[bluemarkus]

jgleason thanks for taking the time to answer to the questions and adding some ideas of your own as well...

 

[jgleason]

The man from LA was Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley of the Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research. He had THE VISION AND THE REVELATION of that vision from Yahweh/the Lord in the year 1931. This may sound crazy but when you begin to read the Elohim books he sent out around the world to every world leader in 1960, you begin to realize that what he discusses is powerful and real. Unfortunately, the organization that he founded(IDMR) has "fallen away" from what he taught about our creator and turned the man himself(Kinley) into the creator. This has unfortunately discredited most of what the IDMR had been teaching for years. Now most of the classes are teaching erroneous doctrine that is nothing close to what was originally taught by the founder from 1931-1976.
What I can say is that the things that I added are not things I "figured out", I had read the Bible from beginning to end 7 times and had no true understanding of our creator as he is and actually exists. It was not until Yahshua revealed himself to me that I began to have the vision and revelation myself. These things, as all truth about our creator, must be revealed, or else we would take the credit and not give it to our creator. That is why he created man last, otherwise man would have taken credit for whatever may have been created after.
I would be glad to share more, but only if there is interest. Isaiah 8:20,John 1:1-5,14 John 14:26,Romans 14:17, Matthew 13:44,Malichi 4:1-3,Matthew 13:43

 

[Hairy Tic]

That's a bit far fetched. Yeshua/Joshua/Hoshea was a very common name among Hebrews.

Joshua
His name was

Hoshea the son of Nun, of the tribe of Ephraim, but Moses called him Joshua. Joshua died at the age of 110.

Nun
Nun is the Father of Joshua. His name means "fish". He was a man from the tribe of Ephraim, grandson of Ammihud, son of Elishama.

Numbers 1:10
10 from the sons of Joseph:
from Ephraim, Elishama son of Ammihud;
from Manasseh, Gamaliel son of Pedahzur;

1 Chronicles Chapter 7

25 And Rephah was his son, and Resheph, and Telah his son, and Tahan his son;

26 Ladan his son, Ammihud his son, Elishama his son;


27 Nun his son, Joshua his son.




He wasn't God.

## And:

Animal names are common in the OT, because they were common in the culture which gave birth to the OT

Nun = fish (as explained)
Achbor = mouse
Caleb = dog
Ari = lion
Nahash = serpent
etc.

The basis of the theory overlooks the fact there are several Michaels in the OT = are they all the same person ? If the angel = the Word, is the Word incarnate in all of them ? If so, that would destroy the uniqueness of the Incarnation.

Is every Greek called Christos the same as Jesus ? And what about Jesus Justus, a disciple in Acts ? He must be Jesus Christ, because He is called Righteous, which is the same in meaning as Justus.

A further mistake is to forget that words are not things. Words can be used allusively, and in extended senses, as well as in their proper sense, & in idioms. And how they communicate meaning is dependent on the cultures in which they are used, and on how they are used. A straightforward equation of meaning between two words of different languages is rare. Language is not a form of arithmetic.

Unless one checks one's theories by testing one's reasoning on something one knows is false, the reasoning one employs can lead to ridiculously untruthful results. Such as this, which uses the kind of reasoning commonly used to "prove" that Christianity is pagan:

There are several famous Georges:

• George of Antioch
• Giorgio Vasari
• Giorgio Armani
  
• Washington
• Washington Glover
• Patten
• Foreman
• Bush I
• Bush II

Washington rebelled against King George III, who was preceded by George I & George II, & followed by George IV.

Since Washington, Bush I & Bush II were all rulers, & since the four British Georges were all rulers, it is obvious that George is not a personal name but a dynastic title, like Candace in Ethiopia (Acts 8). It became a personal name only later.

There is a minor problem. It is not credible that the two Bushes are different people - this is evident from the number of similarities between them: both

• are Christians
• are Caucasians
• are men
• attended Yale
• lived in Texas
• defeated Democrats
• were Presidents
• of the US
• at the end of the 20th century
• were called George
• were called Bush
• fought against Iraq
• fought against the same Iraqi leader
• were victorious
• had Britain as an ally

What are the odds against two entirely different people agreeing in 15 details ? They cannot be anything but the same person. Unless of course we have here two versions of a single Ancient Near Eastern Myth.

 

[jgleason]

Wow, that is an excellent reply! I could not agree more that just because someone possesses the same name does not make them the same "person". In fact, there are a number of Joshua/Jeshua/Hoshea's thoughout the Old Testament. That does not make them Yahshua/Jesus.
There are a numerous line of witnesses that testify to Joshua being the Holy Spirit manifested with the Children of Israel back at the time of Moses. I will try to point out a few of the outstanding ones.
First of all, the most outstanding is when Yahweh Elohim/Lord God calls Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and the 70 elders up into Mt Sinai to sup with them in Exodus the 24th chapter. Yahweh/the Lord is very specific that it only be Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and the 70 Elders who would go up into the mount. Joshua is not on that list, in fact Exodus 33:11 points out specifically that he is a "young man" NOT an elder. Yet, when Moses is about to go up further into the mount and recieve the vision and revelation for the first of two 40 day trips, it suddenly mentions that Joshua, his minister, accompanies him up further. Now read this closely, Yahweh/the Lord specifically instructs Moses to come up "alone and by himself". My point is that when The creator invites Moses up, he does go up alone, he is escorted by the one who invited him, the creator himself, Joshua. At the end of the 40 day vision, when the people had built the golden calf, it is Joshua who tells Moses he hears the sound of war in the camp. What is Joshua doing up there with Moses?...unless he is the one who invited him in the first place.
Another interesting point, when the Tabernacle is still under construction, the ark is kept in the tent of the congregation. This is the tent that Joshua stays in, with the ark! Only Moses, Aaron, and the Levitical prisets are to be in the presence of the ark. Joshua is of the tribe of Ephraim, not a Levite, yet he stays in the tent with the Ark of the covenant! IN fact, when everyone stands outside their individual tents, Joshua stands at the tent of the congregation. Read Exodus 33:11.
While Moses is in the mount he is given the two tables of stone with the commandments on them. These were written by the "finger of Elohim/God". Notice later in the book of Joshua 8:32, after defeating the king of Ai, Joshua had an altar built and he then writes a copy of the law given unto Moses on the stones of the altar. Now let me ask you a question, did he pull out a hammer and chisel and engrave as a man would? He did it just llike he did it when he was up in the mount with Moses in Exodus, he wrote with his very own finger(of Elohim/God).
I could continue on and on with the mountain of evidence, like in the 10th chapter of Joshua, he illustrates to Satan what will be done to himself on the day of the crucifiction thru the 5 kings(5-penta), every detail can be shown in the 10th chapter of Joshua.
These details continue to come out more and more, I don't expect this to convince anyone because the world and religion is so confused about what Yahshua/Jesus came to do in the first place when he was raised up on the cross.
He did not come to intitute a Christian example to live by, he came to fulfill the law. In fact, the Gentiles did not even recieve the Holy Spirit until 7 years after Pentacost. The Last Supper was simply the Passover dinner, which he was fulfilling, he fulfilled water baptisms, he fulfilled every jot and tittle. When our dreams are fulfilled, we have achieved them, we are not still pursuing them. When we continue these rituals and carnal ordinances, we are basically saying that what he did on the cross was not good enough. We have to perform works to be worthy of his grace? Grace is a gift that we do not work for, it is a gift. This confusion in the world is what causes so much confusion and inability to understand what he was really here doing. This is the purpose of "mystery iniquity" that operates to this day. As it says in Revelation 12:9 Satan "decieveth" the whole world(about Yahshua/Jesus), this is present tense, not past or future, this is right now.
Part of the reason it is difficult to resolve this in a person's heart and mind is because it seems as if Joshua of the Old Testament and Yahshua/Jesus of the New Testament seem so different in personality. The witness to the unity of the godhead is the Ark of the Covenant. It is 3 pieces(the two cherubim and the container) overlaid into a single vessel. These two Cherubim, Michael and Gabriel are allegorical to Joshua/Yahshua. Joshua is the warrior, like Michael, and Yahshua/Jesus is the messenger, like Gabriel. Keeping in mind that one has a different purpose than the other
I would enjoy corresponding more directly if you are interested, as you sound like you have done some serious study and research. Have you ever read "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop? It would be of extreme value to do so if you have not. It is very dense and dry but full of powerful and useful revelation. I hope to hear back as I do enjoy this kind of debate.