JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

[LittleLambofJesus]

Josephus really intrigues me.
There is a question now whether or not he had access to a copy of Revelation based on some of his writings concerning 70ad Jerusalem?
I think this would make for a fascinating discussion, whether one is preterist, futurist, amill, etc.

First off, like the Apostle Paul, he is said to have been both a Jew and Pharisee, according to this source.
If so, wouldn't he have had some contact with some of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ at one time?
Discuss..........

Flavius Josephus | Jewish priest, scholar, and historian

Flavius Josephus, original name Joseph Ben Matthias, (born ad 37/38, Jerusalem—died ad 100, Rome), Jewish priest, scholar, and historian who wrote valuable works on the Jewish revolt of 66–70 and on earlier Jewish history. His major books are History of the Jewish War (75–79), The Antiquities of the Jews (93), and Against Apion.

Flavius Josephus was born of an aristocratic priestly family in Jerusalem. According to his own account, he was a precocious youth who by the age of 14 was consulted by high priests in matters of Jewish law. At age 16 he undertook a three-year sojourn in the wilderness with the hermit Bannus, a member of one of the ascetic Jewish sects that flourished in Judaea around the time of Christ.

Returning to Jerusalem, he joined the Pharisees—a fact of crucial importance in understanding his later collaboration with the Romans. The Pharisees, despite the unflattering portrayal of them in the New Testament, were for the most part intensely religious Jews and adhered to a strict though nonliteral observance of the Torah.

History of the Destruction of Jerusalem & Josephan Studies Archives

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish priest and Pharisee, was put in command of the national resistance in Galilee at the time of Israel's revolt against Rome. When he was captured at Jotapata; his life was spared upon his prediction to rival Vespasian, that the Roman general would soon become emperor. Upon the fulfillment of this prophecy shortly thereafter, he was commissioned to provide his captors with a history of the Jewish people, although he initially wrote a history of the Roman-Jewish war suited for both a Roman and a Jewish audience. His works, disputed though they may be regarding accuracy, are an indispensable source on the history of Roman Judea.
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Was Flavius Josephus familiar with the Apocalypse of John?

John's Revelation - “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.” (16:18)

Josephus - “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5) John's
==========================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:19 and Wars of the Jews 5:1:1

Revelation - "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” (16:19)

Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)
==============================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:21 and Wars of the Jews 5:6:3

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Josephus - “Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness;” (5:6:3)....................
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The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Also see: Rapture refuted

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
======================
This is perhaps the best video I have seen concerning Josephus' Jewish Wars coinciding with Matt

 

[John 1720]

Josephus really intrigues me.
There is a question now whether or not he had access to a copy of Revelation based on some of his writings concerning 70ad Jerusalem?
I think this would make for a fascinating discussion, whether one is preterist, futurist, amill, etc.

First off, like the Apostle Paul, he is said to have been both a Jew and Pharisee, according to this source.
If so, wouldn't he have had some contact with some of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ at one time?
Discuss..........

Flavius Josephus | Jewish priest, scholar, and historian

Flavius Josephus, original name Joseph Ben Matthias, (born ad 37/38, Jerusalem—died ad 100, Rome), Jewish priest, scholar, and historian who wrote valuable works on the Jewish revolt of 66–70 and on earlier Jewish history. His major books are History of the Jewish War (75–79), The Antiquities of the Jews (93), and Against Apion.

Flavius Josephus was born of an aristocratic priestly family in Jerusalem. According to his own account, he was a precocious youth who by the age of 14 was consulted by high priests in matters of Jewish law. At age 16 he undertook a three-year sojourn in the wilderness with the hermit Bannus, a member of one of the ascetic Jewish sects that flourished in Judaea around the time of Christ.

Returning to Jerusalem, he joined the Pharisees—a fact of crucial importance in understanding his later collaboration with the Romans. The Pharisees, despite the unflattering portrayal of them in the New Testament, were for the most part intensely religious Jews and adhered to a strict though nonliteral observance of the Torah.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/~preteris/JewishWars/index.html

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish priest and Pharisee, was put in command of the national resistance in Galilee at the time of Israel's revolt against Rome. When he was captured at Jotapata; his life was spared upon his prediction to rival Vespasian, that the Roman general would soon become emperor. Upon the fulfillment of this prophecy shortly thereafter, he was commissioned to provide his captors with a history of the Jewish people, although he initially wrote a history of the Roman-Jewish war suited for both a Roman and a Jewish audience. His works, disputed though they may be regarding accuracy, are an indispensable source on the history of Roman Judea.

Was Flavius Josephus familiar with the Apocalypse of John?

John's Revelation - “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.” (16:18)

Josephus - “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5) John's Revelation - "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” (16:19)


Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Josephus - “Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness;” (5:6:3)....................




.

Hello LittleLambofJesus,
You ask if Flavius Josephus was familiar with the Apocalypse of John?

• No, I don't believe Josephus ever read Revelation. He was not a Christian and he wrote Antiquities in the 13th year of the reign of Domitian, about AD93. While John also wrote Revelation from Patmos during his banishment there by Domitian that was not until AD 96. Since it was written to the seven Churches of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey) and he was in Rome he probably died before it even circulated that far.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hello LittleLambofJesus,
You ask if Flavius Josephus was familiar with the Apocalypse of John?

• No, I don't believe Josephus ever read Revelation. He was not a Christian and he wrote Antiquities in the 13th year of the reign of Domitian, about AD93. While John also wrote Revelation from Patmos during his banishment there by Domitian that was not until AD 96. Since it was written to the seven Churches of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey) and he was in Rome he probably died before it even circulated that far.

Hello John and thanks for responding.

Then John would be writing about the 1st century destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem after it occurred?
Jesus and Paul had already warned the pre 70ad Jews of the pending destruction of the City and Temple.....And now perhaps the present day Jews can read Revelation and see that Jesus did indeed fulfill all things for them.
IMHO

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”

Mark 13:
1 And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
2 And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>

Luke 19:44
“and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>

Luke 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833 without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side<1854>, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations
and the holy City they shall be trampling<3961> forty two months.

.

 

[DavidPT]

Then John would be writing about the 1st century destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem after it occurred?

There is another option as well. He wouldn't have been writing about it at all. I don't see 70 AD anywhere in the book of Revelation myself. If it's there though, I'm unable to see it.

 

[JackRT]

Revelation was written a little after Josephus' last writings.

 

[John 1720]

Hello John and thanks for responding.

Then John would be writing about the 1st century destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem after it occurred?
Jesus and Paul had already warned the pre 70ad Jews of the pending destruction of the City and Temple.....And now perhaps the present day Jews can read Revelation and see that Jesus did indeed fulfill all things for them.
IMHO

Hi Little Lamb of Jesus,
One could draw that problematic conclusion only if they synthesize the revelation that John was given by God with past events. However, in doing so they would also have to throw out the prologue in first passage of Revelation altogether. This is because it specifically states "events that must soon take place", meaning these are not "past" events ,

• Prologue - Revelation 1:1-3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near

This of course was not written by John as it speaks of him in the 3rd person but it could have easily been His translator. The prologue, however, does state that this was understood to be future events and prophesy given to the servants of the Lord - believers trusting in Christ.

Was the Lord's targeted intentional audience, that John was to communicate these events to, really living in Jerusalem? In order to derive that conclusion one would now also have to throw out John's salutation, which highlights the intentional audience; for it is not Jerusalem at all but to the seven churches in Asia to whom He was the elder, having walked with the Lord.

• Salutation - Revelation 1:4-6 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

In addition, we are told this prophesy was directed by the Lord to be given by His apostle John specifically to these seven churches, which he goes on to specifically name. Other clues are also given, such as authorship, @ the locale from where he experienced the revelation, (ii.) as well and inferences to a certain persecution in which he had suffered tribulation for, due to his testimony. (i.& iii) Here John also names the cities these seven churches, which were apostolically planted and which he, as an missionary elder, oversaw and directed the messengers or pastors. (v.)

• Note: I have visited the ruins of the cities that housed these seven churches, as well as the Colossae, which is only a short distance from Laodicea. It is noteworthy that Paul wrote to the Colossians from prison in AD62 but John makes no mention of it, nor did he include it as an active Church in this area. It turns out there is good reason for that omission that also adds another factor for us in establishing the timeline for the letter. I will address this (vi.)

We might also add this could have taken place on a Sunday. That, however, depends on the interpretation of what John means by stating 'being in the Spirit on the Lord's day'. Are we to take that at base value as the prophecy was literally given on a Sunday as being 'the Lord's day'? The other possibility is to assume that by "the Lord's Day", John was following the eschatological genre of the letter and inferred that he was spiritually transported forward in time and so he could highlight this experiences on the Lord's day - the culmination of time and times. Personally imho I take John's meaning to be the Day of the Lord - Which encompassed His return and 2nd coming. These churches were all waiting for Jesus' return, as well as we are presently, as Christians in our own generation. (iv.)

• Revelation 1:09-11 ​
  
  I, John, @ your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance (i.) which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos (ii.) because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. (iii.)
• I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, (iv.) and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea." (v.)

(vi.) Why is Colossae not listed as a church when Laodicea is? Paul wrote to Colossae in AD 62. He had never been there but the Gospel had been brought there from Ephesus and churches were established. In Laodicea, whom they are told to greet, Paul mentions that there was a house church in the home of Nympha(s).

• • Colossians 2:1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh.
  • Colossians 4:15-16 Greet the brethren who are in Laodicea, and Nympha(s) and the church that is in (his/her) house. (vii.) Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
    • vii. see Nympha: A House Church Leader in the Lycus Valley (Colossians 4:15) | Marg Mowczko
• When I visited Colossae, there were no ruins. The only thing left where their metropolis once stood is a huge mound of dirt forming a gigantic hillside. Underneath, I suspect, the dead city still lies buried like a lost Pompeii, frozen in time. It has never undergone an excavation and neither is one planned in the future. Why does it lie buried there? It is because it was the site of a huge earthquake that totally destroyed this city, as well as Laodicea and Hierapolis - a tri city area located within a radius of about eight miles of each other. Laodicea, however, was a rich city and was rebuilt as Tacitus records using their own funds and without any outside help from the Roman government. Hierapolis had to wait until the Romans got a round tuit - I guess they're hard to find when you are an empire that has deep pockets but short arms and hands to reach into them. Colossae, a very notable center, however, was never rebuilt. Personally I believe they were just too plain old fashioned frightened to ever dig it up! According to legend, during that earthquake, Archippus [viii.] witnessed "a huge column of fire rose from the earth to heavens."
  • [viii.] Philemon 1:2 to the beloved Apphia, Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church in your house
  • Colossians 4:17 And say to Archippus, “Take heed to the ministry which you have received in the Lord, that you may fulfill it.”
• This legend is syncretic and filled with superstitions relating back to angel cults but there probably was some truth to this testimony. It is really not all that uncommon in earthquakes to see electrostatic discharges and columns of fire rising to great heights. There is quite a bit of volcanic activity underneath these faults as well as volumes of hydrogen gas. Geologists believe that in this case gas was electrostatically ignited and would have been seen to be similar to lightening bolts followed by vertical columns of flaming gas shot into the sky like giant flame throwers. It must have truly been a truly cataclysmic event, perhaps even reminiscent of Sodom and Gomorrah to those who survived it.
• So when did this take place? We are given two dates Tacitus, the Roman historian, claims the vent occurred during the 7th year of Nero or about AD61. However Eusebius, the Church historian, chronicles it to the 10th year of Nero, which is AD 64. I'm inclined towards the later date since it would be seem ridiculous for Paul to have written them a year after Tacitus claims the city was destroyed. Now James was murdered in Jerusalem in the 8th year of Nero (AD 62) and that's about the same time Paul wrote to Colossae and Laodicea. The 1st Jewish uprising against the Romans began in AD66. It ending with the destruction of the temple in AD70 and in finale with the awful death throes of Masada in AD 73. So where to put a warning prophecy to the Jews in this time period, since Revelation was not addressed to them, is considerably very problematic.
• In conclusion then, Colossae was completely gone and Laodicea lay in ruins in the time of Nero and Vespasian. When John wrote this to the seven Churches Colossae was generational history, 32 years gone according to Irenaeus accounting of when John wrote this. However Laodicea was, once again, firmly established and back in business and thriving as the richest city of all seven. This begs the question of how long did it take to build Laodicea into a thriving megacity and forge it into a Diocese center that eclipsed the other six central key churches of Asia Minor in wealth and reputation. It is very much problematic that Laodicea would have been able to rise from the ashes and recover before the 1st Jewish Revolt just two years later, or the temple destruction for that matter even 6 years later. Revelation is prophetic so if it is a warning for things to come we should be at least a year or two prior to the Jewish catastrophe already well into the making by AD 66. We should also keep in mind that no mention of any recent turmoil is mentioned due to the quake is mentioned. This also would infer we were already decades past (3 and then some on the testimony of Irenaeus; [viii.] which bring me to our best witness from history. Let me conclude the post with ancient testimony as to the Book of Revelation.

[viii.] Eusebius on Irenaeus Testimony concerning John the Apostle and the Revelation
Book 2 Chapter 17. The Persecution under Domitian

Domitian, having shown great cruelty toward many, and having unjustly put to death no small number of well-born and notable men at Rome, and having without cause, exiled and confiscated the property of a great many other illustrious men. Finally became a successor of Nero in his hatred and enmity toward God, he was in fact the second that stirred up a persecution against us, although his father Vespasian had undertaken nothing prejudicial towards us.

• Agapius (probably using Hegissipus as his source) identifies John as caught up in this exile of prominent men, which certainly among Christians he indeed was.
  • Domitian exiled him (John) in one of the islands of the sea in the year 9 of his reign, [Sept 89 to Aug AD90] but at the end of his reign [AD 96] he called him back to Ephesus, where he died and was buried.
  • Note: We can see that John did indeed suffer tribulation for Christ in enduring about 6 years labor on Patmos.

Eusebius Book II cont'd - Chapter 18. The Apostle John and the Apocalypse
It is said that in this persecution the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word. Irenaeus, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, speaks as follows concerning him:

• "If it were necessary for his name (the Antichrist) to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian."
  • Note: Domitian's reign ended in AD 96, after which John returned to Ephesus and lived about 4 more years. So the date for Revelation is thought to be about AD 95-96.

• To such a degree, indeed, did the teaching of our faith flourish at that time that even those writers who were far from our religion did not hesitate to mention in their histories the persecution and the martyrdoms which took place during that time. Indeed they accurately indicated the dates; for they recorded that in the fifteenth year of Domitian Flavia Domitilla, daughter of a sister of Flavius Clement, who at that time was one of the consuls of Rome, was exiled with many others to the island of Pontia in consequence of her testimony which she bore to Christ.
• In that time Domitian Caesar was killed on his carpet in his palace. Nero (Nerva) the Little reigned for a year, in the year 407 of Alexander. (AD 96) He ordered the recall of all those who had been exiled by Domitian, and John the evangelist returned to Ephesus after six years of exile.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Little Lamb of Jesus,
One could draw that problematic conclusion only if they synthesize the revelation that John was given by God with past events. However, in doing so they would also have to throw out the prologue in first passage of Revelation altogether. This is because it specifically states "events that must soon take place", meaning these are not "past" events ,

Thanks for that info.
Josephus also quotes a lot from the NT prophecies of Jesus, especially the Olivet Discourse.
So even if Josephus never viewed Revelation, those who later see Josephus's account of that 70ad destruction perhaps found a lot of similarities of it to Revelation.
A lot of early Christians expressed views of that 70ad event fulfilling the Olivet Discoure, but that does little good if one cannot also connect it to Revelation [which I am in the process of doing]
Hope this helps...........

What Did The ECF Believe About End Times
Early Christian Views on
Matthew 24 and AD70.

90AD Clement of Rome (Displaying Fulfillment of Matthew 24:14) The Martyrdom Of Peter And Paul. “But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes.(11) Let us take the noble examples furnished in our own generation.
150AD Justin Martyr (On the Significance of A.D.70) CHAP. XLVII.–Desolation Of Judaea Foretold. That the land of the Jews, then, was to be laid waste, hear what was said by the Spirit of prophecy......................

And then there is the Isaiah prophecy:

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Isaiah 61:2
To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
And the day of vengeance <5359> of our 'Elohim, To comfort all mourners.

As most everyone is aware of by now is, that Jesus leaves out the "Day of Vengeance" in His discourse recorded only by Luke. We will examine this more as we go along.

Luke 4:
16 Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up.
As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and when He stood up to read, 17 the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:...........
20 Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him,
21 and He began by saying,
“Today this Scripture<1124 is fulfilled<4137> in your hearing.”

And he fulfillment of that Scripture in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad:

Luke 21:22
For these are the days of vengeance<1557>, to fulfill<4130> all things having been written.

Luke uses the different forms of the word "avenge/vengeance" more than the other Gospels writers. Luke is actually my go-to Gospel to harmonize with Revelation.

Luke 18:7
“And shall God not avenge<1557> His own elect/chosen who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? [Revelation 6:10 Revelation 19:2]

Now all one has to do is identify the harlot/Queen/Great City in Revelation clother in purple and fine linen

There is only 1 verse in the NT outside of Revelation that has "purple" and "fine linen" together. My favorite parable in Luke 16, the Rich Man and Lazarus

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:19
“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.

Revelation 6:10
and they were crying with a great voice saying,
'how long! O Master, the Holy and the True, dost Thou not judge
and take vengeance/avenge<1556> of our blood from those dwelling upon the land?'
Revelation 18:16
and cry out: “ ‘Woe! Woe to you, great City, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
Revelation 19:2
because true and just/righteous<1342> are His judgments,
because He did judge the great harlot who did corrupt the land in Her whoredom,
and He did avenge<1556> the blood of His bond-servants at Her Hand;

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?


.

 

[John 1720]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these? Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down.”
Mark 13: 1 And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings” 2 And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings. Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 19:44
“and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down
Luke 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

Yes, there's little doubt that all the Gospels, with the possible exception of John, was written before AD 70. Historically we are told by the ancients that Matthew wrote first in either Aramaic or Hebrew a "sayings" Gospel and only later was he translated and copied into the Greek language, in mho with chronological additions. However, that probably did not occur until after Mark and Luke. Luke compiled his Gospels from many sources, as he readily admits in his preamble. I'm sure he borrowed from Mark as well, so Mark was already done and Luke tails off in Acts after AD 62. If he recorded after he wrote Theophilus, "God lover", who was most likely from the region of Antioch, then nothing remains of it. Given Nero's executions of Christians in Rome, including Paul and Peter in AD 66, Luke certainly would have documented their turmoil. if he even survived himself. If he did then his work is lost to the ages. So all three synoptic Gospels prophesy and predate the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 as well as the beginning of the Jewish War itself in AD 66. In fact the main reason Academia likes to date them post AD 70 is exactly because they don't want to validate prophecy as legitimate, no matter the evidence staring them in the face.

Before addressing the prophecy you list in Revelation we must first tackle the admonition given the preface to John's Gospel

• "to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place."

Revelation has prophecy that directly impacts the seven churche then existing in Asia minor but it also has eschatological prophecy which is end time in genre' and as to end we all know, that "no one knows the day nor the hour'.

Revelation 11:

1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out! out-side and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations and the holy City they shall be trampling forty two months.

So the temple is already gone about 2 and 1/2 decades prior to this writing. And the Gentiles will be trampling down the city until God returns the nation to them. They are also to rebuild the temple. All this is end time prophecy. It did not happen with Titus or even Hadrian, when he kicked all Jewish people out of Jerusalem under severe penalty, this after brutally putting down Bar Kokhba rebellion in AD135.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, there's little doubt that all the Gospels, with the possible exception of John, was written before AD 70.
Before addressing the prophecy you list in Revelation we must first tackle the admonition given the preface to John's Gospel

So the temple is already gone about 2 and 1/2 decades prior to this writing. And the Gentiles will be trampling down the city until God returns the nation to them. They are also to rebuild the temple. All this is end time prophecy. It did not happen with Titus or even Hadrian, when he kicked all Jewish people out of Jerusalem under severe penalty, this after brutally putting down Bar Kokhba rebellion in AD135.

Sorry, but there is nothing that is going to change my view of 1st century Jerusalem being in Revelation. [I just wish I could convince the unbelieving Jews, which is more difficult for the fact that a lot of Christians do not view it like me........onward thru the fog]

The 2nd time I read the Bible thru in 2003 that is what I visioned and since then.
Thank you for your informational post tho.

WHAT "MANNER OF BUILDINGS AND STONES 1ST CENTURY TEMPLE 70AD

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The Jews, anxious above all things to save that sacred edifice, in which they superstitiously trusted for security , with a dreadful outcry, rushed in to extinguish the flames. Titus also, being extinguish the conflagration, hastened to the spot in his chariot, attended by his principal officers and legions ; but in vain he waved his hand and raised his voice, commanding his soldiers to extinguish the fire; so great was the uproar and confusion, that no attention was paid even to him.
The Romans, wilfully deaf instead of extinguishing the flames, spread them wider and wider.

Finding it impossible to restrain the impetuosity and cruelty of his soldiers, the Commander in chief proceeded, with some of his superior officers, to take a survey of those parts of the edifice which were still uninjured by the conflagration.
had not, at this time, reached the inner Temple, which Titus entered, and viewed with silent admiration. Struck with the magnificence of its architecture, and the beauty of its decorations, which even surpassed the report of fame concerning them ; and perceiving that the sanctuary had not yet caught fire, he redoubled his efforts to stop the progress of the flames.

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations,..........
============================================='
Titus actually attributed his victory to God [according to Josephus]!

That got me to thinking that IF 70ad Jerusalem is that great City/Harlot in Revelation, then those 10 kings must be representing the gentile nations coming against it, including the Romans
The Roman denari is mentioned:

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". ."

Also note Revel 17:17 where God is actually sending them........And why are they hating the harlot?

Acts 1:6 Restore Kingdom to Israel/10 KINGS One Mind Reve 17

Revelation 17:
12 And the ten horns which you saw, ten kings are, who any a-Kingdom not-yet received, but authority as kings, one hour they are receiving with the beast,
13 These one mind are having, and the power and authority of them to the beast they are giving.
16 And the ten horns which you perceived, and the beast, these shall be hating the harlot, and having been desolated, they shall be making her, and naked.
And the fleshes of her they shall be eating, and her they shall be burning down in fire.

17 For the God gives into the hearts of them to do the mind of Him, and to do/make one mind,
and to give the Kingdom of them to the beast until shall be being finished the Words of the God.

Jeremiah 1:15
For behold, I am calling All the families of the kingdoms of the north,” says the LORD;
“They shall come and each one set his throne At the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, Against all its walls all around,
And against all the cities of Judah.

 

[John 1720]

Thanks for that info.
Josephus also quotes a lot from the NT prophecies of Jesus, especially the Olivet Discourse.
So even if Josephus never viewed Revelation, those who later see Josephus's account of that 70ad destruction perhaps found a lot of similarities of it to Revelation.
A lot of early Christians expressed views of that 70ad event fulfilling the Olivet Discoure, but that does little good if one cannot also connect it to Revelation [which I am in the process of doing]
Hope this helps...........

What Did The ECF Believe About End Times
Early Christian Views on
Matthew 24 and AD70.

90AD Clement of Rome (Displaying Fulfillment of Matthew 24:14) The Martyrdom Of Peter And Paul. “But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes.(11) Let us take the noble examples furnished in our own generation.

Hi Again,
Clement probably wrote this before AD 70 since he mentions the temple sacrifice was going on. He also wrote that Peter and Paul's martyrdom was recent. My guess is he wrote it between AD66 and AD70. Clement is mentioned in one of Paul's Epistles, was in Rome during Paul's and Peter's execution and eventually became a bishop there.

• Philippians 4:3 And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life.
  
• Chapter 05 of the 1st letter of Clement to the Corinthians
  "But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes.https://www.christianforums.com/#_edn1 Let us take the noble examples furnished in our own generation. Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours; and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him.[ii] Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. After preaching both in the east and west, he gained the illustrious reputation due to his faith, having taught righteousness to the whole world, and come to the extreme limit of the west, [iii] and suffered martyrdom under the prefects. Thus was he removed from the world, and went into the holy place, having proved himself a striking example of patience."
  
  
  [*]Chapter 41 of the 1st letter of Clement to the Corinthians
  [*]"Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned."
  

​

​

https://www.christianforums.com/#_ednref1 Alluding to those persecuted for the Christian faith (atheletes who have run the race)
[ii] Peter was crucified under Nero probably AD66
[iii] Probably Spain is what is meant by extreme limits of the West​

 

[John 1720]

Sorry, but there is nothing that is going to change my view of 1st century Jerusalem being in Revelation. [I just wish I could convince the unbelieving Jews which is more difficult for the fact that a lot of Christians do not view like that........sigh]

The 2nd time I read the Bible thru in 2003 that is what I visioned and since then.
Thank you for your informational post tho.

WHAT "MANNER OF BUILDINGS AND STONES 1ST CENTURY TEMPLE 70AD

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The Jews, anxious above all things to save that sacred edifice, in which they superstitiously trusted for security , with a dreadful outcry, rushed in to extinguish the flames. Titus also, being extinguish the conflagration, hastened to the spot in his chariot, attended by his principal officers and legions ; but in vain he waved his hand and raised his voice, commanding his soldiers to extinguish the fire; so great was the uproar and confusion, that no attention was paid even to him.
The Romans, wilfully deaf instead of extinguishing the flames, spread them wider and wider.

Finding it impossible to restrain the impetuosity and cruelty of his soldiers, the Commander in chief proceeded, with some of his superior officers, to take a survey of those parts of the edifice which were still uninjured by the conflagration.
had not, at this time, reached the inner Temple, which Titus entered, and viewed with silent admiration. Struck with the magnificence of its architecture, and the beauty of its decorations, which even surpassed the report of fame concerning them ; and perceiving that the sanctuary had not yet caught fire, he redoubled his efforts to stop the progress of the flames.

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations,..........
============================================='
Titus actually attributed his victory to God [according to Josephus]!

That got me to thinking that IF 70ad Jerusalem is that great City/Harlot in Revelation, then those 10 kings must be representing the gentile nations coming against it, including the Romans
The Roman denari is mentioned:

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". ."

Also note Revel 17:17 where God is actually sending them........And why are they hating the harlot?

Acts 1:6 Restore Kingdom to Israel/10 KINGS One Mind Reve 17

Revelation 17:
12 And the ten horns which you saw, ten kings are, who any a-Kingdom not-yet received, but authority as kings, one hour they are receiving with the beast,
13 These one mind are having, and the power and authority of them to the beast they are giving.
16 And the ten horns which you perceived, and the beast, these shall be hating the harlot, and having been desolated, they shall be making her, and naked.
And the fleshes of her they shall be eating, and her they shall be burning down in fire.

17 For the God gives into the hearts of them to do the mind of Him, and to do/make one mind,
and to give the Kingdom of them to the beast until shall be being finished the Words of the God.

Jeremiah 1:15
For behold, I am calling All the families of the kingdoms of the north,” says the LORD;
“They shall come and each one set his throne At the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, Against all its walls all around,
And against all the cities of Judah.

Well yes, of course Jerusalem is in Revelation. It is just not pre AD 70 Jerusalem, since when the Apocalypse was published it was already the year AD 96. Prophetically, the heavenly Jerusalem is mentioned as descending down to the earth. Surely no one thinks that has already happened.

The ECF Father who understood John's Apocalypse as well as Daniel the best was probably Hippolytus. He lived in the latter half of the 2nd century and died about AD 235 as a martyr.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Again,
Clement probably wrote this before AD 70 since he mentions the temple sacrifice was going on. He also wrote that Peter and Paul's martyrdom was recent. My guess is he wrote it between AD66 and AD70.

Alluding to those persecuted for the Christian faith (atheletes who have run the race)
[ii] Peter was crucified under Nero probably AD66
[iii] Probably Spain is what is meant by extreme limits of the West​

Thanks for bringing bringing Peter's demise up.
Both Peter and Paul did say this:

Peter and Paul's departure

2 peter 1:14
Having known that speedily is the putting off of the booth/skhnw-matoV <4638> of me, according as also the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, makes evident to me.
2 Timothy 4:6
For I am already being poured out and the time of my departure is come.

Now let's look at the word "parousia" Jesus used in Matthew 24, the only chapter in the Gospels that mentions that word:

Matthew 24:3
He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us! when? shall these be and what? the sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>,
and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

Did James write this before 70ad?

James 5:8
be ye patient! also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448>;

Luke 21:20 -
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
then know that Her desolation is nigh/hggiken <1448>

1 Peter 4:7
And of all things the end hath come nigh<1448>;
be sober-minded then, and watch unto the prayers,

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy, and keepings in it having been Written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
for the Time is nigh/egguV <1451>.

"THE TIME IS NIGH AT HAND" AND "COMING IN SWIFTNESS" REVELATION PROPHECY

Revelation chapter 1 and chapter 22 contain 2 interesting greek words concerning timing and action of events: #G5034 "switness/speedily" and G#1451 "near/nigh".

Eschatologists have been at odds with each other, mainly Preterists, Futurists and Amills, etc.

Let me first put up the 4 verses from Revelation that contain theses words, and then find out where they are used in the rest of the NT concerning prophecy.
Feel free to discuss these 2 words and of course, also vote. Thanks

Strong's Greek: 5034. τάχος (tachos) -- speed
5034. tachos from the same as 5036;
a brief space (of time), i.e.
(with 1722 prefixed) in haste:--+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

Revelation 1:1
An-un-covering-revealing of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD/YHWH, to show to the bond-servants of Him,
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 22:6
And said to me: "These, the Words Faithful and True.
And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets, commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.

Strong's Greek: 1451. ἐγγύς (eggus) -- near (in place or time)
1451. eggus from a primary verb agcho (to squeeze or throttle; akin to the base of 43);
near (literally or figuratively, of place or time):--from , at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy, and the keepings in it having been Written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
for the Time is NIGH AT HAND/egguV <1451>.
Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of this Scroll,
For the Time Is NIGH AT HAND/egguV <1451>

THE ROMAN "blitzkrieg"

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
VISUAL TIMELINE OF THE ROMAN-JEWISH WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
.

.

 

[John 1720]

Thanks for bringing bringing Peter's demise up.
Both Peter and Paul did say this:

Peter and Paul's departure

2 peter 1:14
Having known that speedily is the putting off of the booth/skhnw-matoV <4638> of me, according as also the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, makes evident to me.
2 Timothy 4:6
For I am already being poured out and the time of my departure is come.

Now let's look at the word "parousia" Jesus used in Matthew 24, the only chapter in the Gospels that mentions that word:

Matthew 24:3
He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us! when? shall these be and what? the sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>,
and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

Did James write this before 70ad?

James 5:8
be ye patient! also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448>;

Yes, of course he wrote it before AD 70, since they killed him in AD 62.
In context it reads:

• James 5:7-9 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!

 

[JackRT]

Hi Again,
Clement probably wrote this before AD 70 since he mentions the temple sacrifice was going on. He also wrote that Peter and Paul's martyrdom was recent. My guess is he wrote it between AD66 and AD70. Clement is mentioned in one of Paul's Epistles, was in Rome during Paul's and Peter's execution and eventually became a bishop there.

• Philippians 4:3 And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life.
  
• Chapter 05 of the 1st letter of Clement to the Corinthians
  "But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes. Let us take the noble examples furnished in our own generation. Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours; and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him.[ii] Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. After preaching both in the east and west, he gained the illustrious reputation due to his faith, having taught righteousness to the whole world, and come to the extreme limit of the west, [iii] and suffered martyrdom under the prefects. Thus was he removed from the world, and went into the holy place, having proved himself a striking example of patience."
  
  
  [*]Chapter 41 of the 1st letter of Clement to the Corinthians
  [*]"Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned."

​

​

Alluding to those persecuted for the Christian faith (atheletes who have run the race)
[ii] Peter was crucified under Nero probably AD66
[iii] Probably Spain is what is meant by extreme limits of the West​

John Dominic Crossan in The Historical Jesus (HarperCollins, 1991) dates First Clement to the late 90s. I also believe that there is a church in Spain that claims the remains of Paul.

 

[John 1720]

John Dominic Crossan in The Historical Jesus (HarperCollins, 1991) dates First Clement to the late 90s. I also believe that there is a church in Spain that claims the remains of Paul.

Hi Jack,
Well for those unwilling to use reason and logic for themselves, perhaps we can defer them all to the opinions of John Dominic Crosson, our new messiah of Church history. I don't know how Hegissipus, Polycarp, Papias, Irenaeus, Agapius and all the others could have gotten things so wrong; after all he is old enough to be a living witness to when this all took place

• Of course I am just kidding with you but JDC did lose me about 20 years ago or more after he surmised that dogs probably ate the body of Jesus! Yeech!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, of course he wrote it before AD 70, since they killed him in AD 62.
In context it reads:

• James 5:7-9 Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!

Yep.
Interesting thing about Stephens' vision of the heavens being opened is seeing Jesus standing instead of sitting [this is where my bro Saul/Paul comes on the scene]I can just see the glare of wrath in Jesus' eyes......

Stoning of Stephen against the Law?

Acts 7:
56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens having been opened<διηνοιγμένους<455> and the Son of the Man standing out of rights of the God!"
58 They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him.
Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.

Now we see Jesus sitting on a white horse coming to spank the "stoners":

Revelation 19:11
And I saw the heaven being opened<ἠνεῳγμένον <455> and behold! A white horse!
and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True

Stoning seemed to be pretty popular among the OC Jews back then [Romans preferred crucifixion]

John 10:33
Answered Him, the Judeans saying, "about a good work not we are Stoning Thee, but about blasphemy, and that Thou being a man are making thyself a god" [Revelation 6:21]
John 19:15
Those yet cry out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him".
Pilate is saying to them "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?"
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar"

Live by the stones, die by the stones [stones hurled by Roman catapults at 70ad Jerusalem]

Reve 6:
16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling on us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne,
and from the wrath of the Lambkin" [Hosea 10:8/Luke 23:30]
21 And great Hail as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men.
And the men blaspheme the God out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous.[John 10:33]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Doors Kingdom of God

According to Luke 21:31, the Kingdom of God came upon the parousia of Jesus in 70ad:

Matthew 24:33
so also ye, whenever ye may being seeing all these, be ye knowing! that nigh is being— upon doors.
Mark 13:29
thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming, be ye knowing! that nigh, it is being upon doors.

Luke 21:31
Thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming, ye are knowing that nigh<1451> is being the Kingdom of the God;

There is that word "nigh" again. Since I know Revelation is showing that event, let's go there:

Only 2 verses in Revelation uses #1451

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is nigh<1451>
Rev 22:10
And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is nigh<1451>.

Paul says their salvation was near. Salvation from what?

Romans 13:11
And this knowing the time<2540>, that hour already ye out of sleep to be roused,
for now nearer<1452> of us the Salvation<4991> than we believe [Reve 7:10, 12:10, 19:1]

#4991 used in 3 verses of Revelation:

Rev 7:10
and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
Rev 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now the salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
Rev 19:1 After these things I heard[fn] a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord[fn] our God!


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I had .this on another thread but thought it would be appropriate here.

What do others think about Josephus's mention of a statue of Caligula being put the Temple years before the Temple got decimated in 70ad? Could this be the AoD talked about in Matthew and Mark?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Abomination Desolation

Matthew 24:15
Whenever then, ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>.......
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops, then be knowing that come nigh the desolating<2050> of Her

A form of #2050 is used for the desolation of the great City in Revelation 18.

Revelation 18:19
“They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour She is made desolate<2049>.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world..........

It may, therefore, appear absurd to attempt a distinct elucidation of this part of the prophecy ; nevertheless, it ought not to be omitted, that about this time, the emperor Caligula, having ordered his statue to be placed in the temple of Jerusalem, and the Jews having persisted to refuse him, the whole nation were so much alarmed, by the mere apprehension of war, that they neglected even to till their lands !
The storm, however, blew over.


.

 

[timtams]

Josephus would have written long after Revelation was composed during Nero's reign, but it's doubtful it would have influenced his portrayal of events.

 

[JackRT]

Josephus would have written long after Revelation was composed during Nero's reign, but it's doubtful it would have influenced his portrayal of events.

Ummm ---- Revelation was written about AD 95 which places it after Josephus.

 

[timtams]

Ummm ---- Revelation was written about AD 95 which places it after Josephus.

Some hold that view, yes. I don't think it's well grounded, myself.