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Johannes Gutenberg Was Jewish

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AbbaLove

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Gutenberg's masterpiece, the “Forty-Two-Line” Gutenberg Bible was printed on handmade paper of fine quality imported from Italy. Each folio contained a papermold watermark to identify its maker. This watermark visible between the two text columns was of a ripe cluster of grapes.

Gutenberg's first printing press was an adaption of a wine press. Along with the invention of movable type Gutenberg's printing press is widely regarded as the most important event that heralded the Modern Era. The invention of the printing press and movable type played a key role in the development of the Renaissance, Reformation, the Age of Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution. Gutenberg's contribution laid the material basis for our modern knowledge-based economy and the spread of learning to the masses.

~ His name Gutenburg, is similar to Jutenberg, "Jute" being similar to "Jude", which is German for "Jew". He was also depicted with a beard in most paintings and statues in Europe, a common facial feature among the town's Jewish men;

~ Historian John Man, author of The Gutenberg Revolution, points out that his home was located on "Judenberg," also known as the Jewish Hill;

~ The city where he was born, spent most of his life, and died, was Mainz, Germany, and during his time it was the capital of European Jewry, with its own Jewish academy, established 300 years earlier;

~ During this period, Mainz also had the largest Jewish community in Europe;

~ According to Mainz's web site, Gutenberg's time was considered the "golden age" of trade and prosperity of its citizens, and area Bishops had "protected" its Jewish population;

~ According to John Man, over a century earlier, dozens of Jewish homes were confiscated by the city's powerful rulers, and among them was the Gutenberg house. It was later reacquired by Gutenberg's ancestors and remained in his family through his lifetime.

~ Religion author John V. Collyer, notes on his web site, Bible Topics, that Gutenberg was born of a wealthy Jewish family in 1397.

 
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AbbaLove

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Assuming Gutenberg was Jewish then the following assumption is that he was possibly a Messianic Jew. Perhaps God gave him supernatural knowledge through a dream about a printing press with movable type to print the 'complete' Jewish Bible. If indeed Jewish he must have felt many times like being pinched between a rock and a hard place.

The so-called Mother Church wasn't thrilled with his efforts nor do we suppose his Jewish orthodox community. The idea of printing just the Torah in 'book form in German' for the Jewish community would have possibly been viewed as sacrilegious.

2 Timothy 3:12 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
But also, all those who choose to live in the worship of God in Yeshua The Messiah are persecuted.

 
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MessianicMommy

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Nope.

His full name was Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg. He was baptized at St Christoph's church in Mainz, which was a Catholic church. His father was an aristocrat and employed at the local mint. He grew up learning how to handle gold. "His surname was derived from the house inhabited by his father and his paternal ancestors 'zu Laden, zu Gutenberg'. The house of Gänsfleisch was one of the aristocratic families of the town, tracing its lineage back to the 13th century, and by the 1420s the name "zu Gutenberg", (named after the family house in Mainz), is documented to have been used for the first time.


They left Mainz due to the common people revolting against the aristocracy and he lived elsewhere before moving to Strausbourg, Switzerland for a time and then returning to Mains. I've never heard him claimed as Jewish before to be perfectly honest.
 
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AbbaLove

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He was baptized at St Christoph's church in Mainz, which was a Catholic church. His father was an aristocrat and employed at the local mint. He grew up learning how to handle gold.
Didn't some men of Jewish ancestry take on the pretense of Christianity in order to 'fit-in' with the aristocracy that they may have wanted to emulate. Perhaps Johanne was raised in a liberal home where he learned to appreciate both his Jewish heritage as well as Christianity (Yeshua, the Messiah, the Son of God). Is it not possible that Johanne Gutenberg was a Messianic Jew.
 
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AbbaLove

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What do you mean by Messianic Jew?
A Protestant who happens to be of Jewish descent?
Or do you mean Messianic Jew in another modern sense?
In this particular scenario of a Jewish baby being sprinkled in "St Christoph's church in Mainz, which was a Catholic church" wouldn't one assume Johannes was baptized according to Church doctrine ... thus becoming a 'Christian' according to Catholic doctrine. Continuing with this scenario isn't it possible that at some point in his life he accepted Yeshua as his Messiah even though he was of Jewish ancestry. Wouldn't that qualify him as a Messianic Jew? Do you think it's possible today for a Messianic Jew (of Jewish ancestory) to attend Catholic Mass to worship Yeshua as Messiah and Son of G-D?

Perhaps the conundrum is that for the most part rampant RT may not eagerly embrace the idea that the invention of the printing press, movable type and the printing of the Gutenberg Bible was accomplished by someone of Jewish ancestry. After all isn't the prevalent thinking that it's German superiority that led to these inventions and the printing of the Gutenberg Bible. However, weren't Einstein and Wernher von Braun of Jewish ancestry.

On the other hand Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism may not eagerly embrace the notion that the Gutenberg Bible was printed by someone of Jewish ancestry that was baptized in a Catholic Church. Do you have a problem with a Messianic Jew (of Jewish ancestory) attending Catholic Mass to worship Yeshua as Messiah, the Son of G-d; while still beholding to the Tanakh?

 
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ChavaK

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In this particular scenario of a Jewish baby being sprinkled in "St Christoph's church in Mainz, which was a Catholic church" wouldn't one assume Johannes was baptized according to Church doctrine ... thus becoming a 'Christian' according to Catholic doctrine. Continuing with this scenario isn't it possible that at some point in his life he accepted Yeshua as his Messiah even though he was of Jewish ancestry. Wouldn't that qualify him as a Messianic Jew? Do you think it's possible today for a Messianic Jew (of Jewish ancestory) to attend Catholic Mass to worship Yeshua as Messiah and Son of G-D?
This all seems like a lot of speculation. He was raised a Catholic. Even if he did have any Jewish ancestry (which doesn't seem to be the case) it doesn't make him a Jew.

On the other hand Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism may not eagerly embrace the notion that the Gutenberg Bible was printed by someone of Jewish ancestry that was baptized in a Catholic Church.
Again, Jewish ancestry does not make one a Jew.
Why is so important to you that Gutenberg be Jewish? It seems a little odd.
 
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AbbaLove

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When God made his unconditional covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 15, 17, etc.), He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.” Wasn't one of the Lord’s expectations that His people, Israel, would be a channel of blessing for all of humanity.

Gutenberg's contribution was a most significant blessing for all of humanity. Personally, I don't think it bothered God that a Catholic Christian of Jewish ancestry was used to be a channel of blessing for all of humanity. In point it seems just like God's Wisdom to confound the prejudices of religious man.

In the broader scope of humanity aren't all Jews still considered His People. Does Gutenberg's Catholic Christian connection nullify his Jewish connection with Israel.

 
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Gxg (G²)

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The house of Gänsfleisch was one of the aristocratic families of the town, tracing its lineage back to the 13th century, and by the 1420s the name "zu Gutenberg", (named after the family house in Mainz), is documented to have been used for the first time.


They left Mainz due to the common people revolting against the aristocracy and he lived elsewhere before moving to Strausbourg, Switzerland for a time and then returning to Mains. I've never heard him claimed as Jewish before to be perfectly honest.

Not to take away from the possibility of Gutenberg being Jewish - as that is something that would be interesting - but I think it should be noted that the esteem so many give to him due to attributing to him the creating of the Printing Press is a bit out of place in light of where others already did what he was given credit for. Some of this was discussed more in-depth elsewhere, as discussed here:

Even with the advent of the printing press, it still took a month to copy a Bible. They were cheaper to get yes, but still out of the grasp of common folks.
Gxg (G²);65144456 said:
I still wonder at times why people place so much focus on the printing press as if it alone was what made the difference - and even if it had impact, it seems odd whenever we note that the advent of it began around the Protestant Reformation.

For its advent was made originally OUTSIDE of the European experience..specifically in China. China was always the hub of inventions and innovation due to, not only bright minds, but a good economic environment...and they have often been ahead in a lot of things...and no surprise that they were in the position they were in when it came to the West.

In example, when I had the opportunity to go to a Bible musuem known as "Passages" years ago, I was amazed to see that Printed books existed nearly 600 years before Gutenberg's Bible....as expressed in Chinese Culture. .and yet despite where they already did so long before Europe caught up, the idea was deemed as worthless until circumstances caused it to be celebrated in the West - and credit was taken for it by Europeans (in light of what the Reformation meant to them )and no one considered the ways others already did as they did - but chose not to use it for the same reasons. '




As another noted best (for brief excerpt):


Francis Bacon (1561-1626), an early advocate of file empirical method, upon which the scientific revolution was based, attributed Western Europe's early modern take-off to three things in particular: printing, the compass, and gunpowder. Bacon had no idea where these things had come from, but historians now know that all three were invented in China. Since, unlike Europe, China did not take off onto a path leading from the scientific to the Industrial Revolution, some historians are now asking why these inventions were so revolutionary in Western Europe and, apparently, so unrevolutionary in China....Printing not only eliminated much of the opportunity for human copying errors, it also encouraged the production of more copies of old books and an increasing number of new books. As written material became both cheaper and more easily available, intellectual activity increased. Printing would eventually be held responsible, at least in part, for spread of classical humanism and other ideas from the Renaissance. It is also said to have stimulated the Protestant Reformation, which urged a return to the Bible as the primary religious authority.

Additionally, as noted in http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/shaffer.html:



the impact of printing on China was in some ways very similar to its later impact on Europe. For example, printing contributed to a rebirth of classical (that is, preceeding the third century AD) Confucian learning, helping to revive a fundamentally humanistic outlook that had been pushed aside for several centuries....

The resurgence of Confucianism within the scholarly community was due to many factors, but printing was certainly one of the most important. Although it was invented by Buddhist monks in China, and at first benefited Buddhism, by the middle of the tenth century, printers were turning out innumerable copies of the classical Confucian corpus. This return of scholars to classical learning was part of a more general movement that shared not only its humanistic features with the later Western European Renaissance, but certain artistic trends as well.

Furthermore, the Protestant Reformation in Western Europe was in some ways reminiscent of the emergence and eventual triumph of Neo-Confucian philosophy. ....In the same way that Protestantism emerged out of a confrontation with the Roman Catholic establishment and asserted the individual Christians autonomy, Neo-Confucianism emerged as a critique of Buddhist ideas that had taken hold in China, and it asserted an individual moral capacity totally unrelated to the ascetic practices and prayers of the Buddhist priesthood.

You didn't see China really concerned with the Reformation nor did it impact it greatly when the printing press in the West helped it spread - there were cultural dynamics in understanding the Gospel and other aspects of the West which made a world of difference for what information was deemed important in spreading.

Christians were ALREADY present in China - .Eastern Christianity/ Church of the East greatly influenced the Mongol Empire (more discussed here /here/here/here/here/here /here/ here/ here/ here/ here/here & here in #84 ) - with it being the case that the Nestorians won many members of the Keralts tribe to their faith (and in the 13th century this tribe would produce Genghis Khan, the military leader who would unify the Mongol tribes ) and there were many Nestorian Christians in the court of Genghis Khan, including the wife of the khan himself. It was very amazing seeing how there were certainly Christian sects operating within the Mongolian sphere at the time in question, as the Nestorians had been converting Mongols since the 7th century and the Keraits, Merkits, etc., had large Christian beliefs. .and these Christians then intermarried with other Mongolian tribes - with at least two sons of Genghis Khan married Nestorian women...and the influences being so great that Genghis Khan also exempted Christian priests and scholars from paying any taxes.




For one excellent presentation on the issue, I would suggest looking into a study entitled especially in the time of the MongolsObject No. 14: The 'Nestorian Stone' or Church of the East Stele - presented by Martin Palmer



ku-medium.jpg

That said, with the printing press, it seemed to have different emphasis in European culture than it did in Chinese or Asian culture even when Christianity was present in BOTH places - and that very much has to do with the things valued respectively in each world.

Sometimes an invention is just “in the air”..as advances in technology have brought things to a point where all the pieces exist to make a major leap forward, and all it takes is for a bright and innovative thinker to have the insight to put those pieces together. Often, several people will “invent” the same or similar things around the same time…but only one of them gets focus/press on it at a given moment while others who preceded them in the innovation often aren’t concerned because what they are noted for elsewhere has no bearing on how they are already recognized in their own culture/focused on the homefront they’re at.

In the Far East, movable type and printing presses were known but did not replace printing from individually carved wooden blocks, from movable clay type, processes much more efficient than hand copying. The use of movable type in printing was invented in 1041 AD by Bi Sheng in China. Since there are thousands of Chinese characters, the benefit of the technique is not as obvious as in European languages.”

Modifying a tool is not the same as inventing it, as that'd be like saying Steve Jobs invented the telephone...when all he did was change it in regards to the Smart Phone design he made...and the same thing in regards to saying Toyota invented the automobile rather than Ford when the truth is that they simply were innovative with something that pre-existed both of them....and in the same way, Gutenberg didn't invent the printing press, movable type or not. The Chinese had a a printing press differing than Gutenberg because they don't use the alphabet and they use characters that don't break up the way individual letters do, so they invented a press that fit their needs. That isn't to say it's inferior to the movable type printing press though. And it certainly wasn't "unfinished."


To have invented something, you would have had to have made it first. Whether the Chinese printing press made it to Europe or not, the Chinese printing press was still invented FIRST. And ignoring that historically while repeating something such as Europe revolutionized the world for everyone in making printing possible is the same eurocentric view that says Columbus discovered the Americas or that the Lord was only working in the Reformation ..
 
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Dave-W

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What do you mean by Messianic Jew?
A Protestant who happens to be of Jewish descent?
Or do you mean Messianic Jew in another modern sense?

I take the term "Messianic Jew" to mean someone of Jewish ancestry that self-identifies as a Jew and lives a Jewish lifestyle while being a believer in Yeshua/Jesus.

Living a Jewish life is what divides a Messianic Jew from a Jewish Christian.
 
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rick357

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When God made his unconditional covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 15, 17, etc.), He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.” Wasn't one of the Lord’s expectations that His people, Israel, would be a channel of blessing for all of humanity.

Gutenberg's contribution was a most significant blessing for all of humanity. Personally, I don't think it bothered God that a Catholic Christian of Jewish ancestry was used to be a channel of blessing for all of humanity. In point it seems just like God's Wisdom to confound the prejudices of religious man.

In the broader scope of humanity aren't all Jews still considered His People. Does Gutenberg's Catholic Christian connection nullify his Jewish connection with Israel.

That wich was given to Abraham was about the.seed of Messiah blessing the earth.

But the Jewish people have invented or improved inventions all through modern history...they are a very bright people....and I have no doubt that is the result of YHWH's cultivation of their race.
 
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MessianicMommy

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Didn't some men of Jewish ancestry take on the pretense of Christianity in order to 'fit-in' with the aristocracy that they may have wanted to emulate.
Not in that time-frame generally speaking. His family came of a long line of patricians. The evidence for them being Jewish is based on only a couple of historians and nothing to really back it up sadly.:sorry:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 
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AbbaLove

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Movable type (of Chinese porcelain) was first invented in China by Bi Sheng between 1041-1048. He took sticky clay and cut into the clay characters as thin as the edge of a coin. Each character formed, as it were, a single type. He baked them in the fire to make them hard. When printing, he took an iron frame and placed the types, set close together. When the frame was full it was a solid block of type. He then placed it near the fire to warm it. When a bottom paste was slightly melted, he took a smooth board and pressed it over the top surface, so that the block of type became as even as a whetstone.

After Gutenberg’s invention of movable type printing, some Jewish commentators believed interpreting the mitzvah in light of this technology was of definite advantage. According to the 18th-century commentator Rabbi Abraham Danzig, a Jew's obligation was to own, and not necessarily write, sacred books for studying. As printed books became more readily available, the gap between the cost of a hand written Torah scroll and machine printed Jewish sacred texts would only grow. Thus this modern mitzvah came to be understood as encouragement for studying Torah, as opposed to the more narrow understanding of writing one.

In 1995, Rabbi Yechiel Z. Eckstein (IFCJ) brought the first Torah scroll to Uzbekistan since the Communist regime banned religious practice there. Just as many Bibles are now printed in China (quality at less expense) it would stand to reason that Hebrew literature is also printed in China (quality at less expense). A handmade kosher Torah Scroll costs from $10,000 to $12,000.

Is a silk-screened Torah Scroll considered kosher if it is hand-made vs automated screen printing machinery? This also has me wondering if all so-called 'kosher' Torah scrolls use only handmade paper if paper from industrial paper-making machinery is considered unkosher. If you take kosher thinking a step further are only handmade ink pigments considered kosher; whereas machine made inks are unkosher. Maybe kosher isn’t the right word, rather hand-made vs machine-made.

Edit: This screened Torah Scroll is printed on a high quality of machined cloth (most likely linen).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvFED55xhv8

 
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Gxg (G²)

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AbbaLove

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Not in that time-frame generally speaking. His family came of a long line of patricians. The evidence for them being Jewish is based on only a couple of historians and nothing to really back it up sadly. :sorry:
From the scant information that is available does not discount the possibility that Gutenberg was of Jewish ancestry. If, in fact he was Jewish it's obvious that he became a Believer in Messiah Yeshua or he wouldn't have printed the complete Jewish Bible in German. From historical research at least one or both of his parents were considered Christians as some Jews were forced to accept Christianity or be killed.

We also know that he would have been considered an apostate by any orthodox Jewish community. Thus, neither he nor his parents would be considered Jewish, even if they had ever lived among a Jewish community of diverse beliefs.
Sometime after 1419 when his father died, the family adopted the surname zum Gutenberg after the name of the house ("Good Hill") in Mainz where the family had moved. The house had previously been known as Judenberg, Jewish Hill. According to historian John Man, "In the 1282 pogrom, fifty-four Jewish properties were abandoned and were grabbed by the rich and powerful. It seems that the Gutenberg house fell to the archbishop's treasurers... It was later acquired by the great-great-grandfather of our inventor and stayed in the family." He goes on to speculate why the family of Gensfleisch ("Gooseflesh") house kept that name instead of taking the Gutenberg name that would associate them with the Jewish history of the place, until much later..
Johannes Gutenberg - encyclopedia article - Citizendium
Guttenberg Changes History - Judaic Treasures | Jewish Virtual Library

It would be just like God to choose a person of Jewish heritage to print the first complete Jewish Bible using newly invented movable type. You would agree that some of man's greatest achievements have come from Jewish minds. Being a former printer having cut my teeth on a few California Job Cases it is my biased opinion that Johannes Gutenberg was at least 25-51% Jewish ;)

 
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Aryeh Jay

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From the scant information that is available does not discount the possibility that Gutenberg was of Jewish ancestry. If, in fact he was Jewish it's obvious that he became a Believer in Messiah Yeshua or he wouldn't have printed the complete Jewish Bible in German.


Johannes Gutenberg did not print The Complete Jewish Bible. The Complete Jewish Bible was compiled by David Harold Stern, Ph.D. and was published in its entirety in 1998 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc. Johannes Gutenberg printed the Catholic Churches Vulgate in Latin, not German. Bibles printed in the common language were outlawed during this time and if Johannes Gutenberg did print a bible in German, he would have been killed as a heretic.

Johannes Gutenberg bid believe in Jesus as the Messiah because he was born, raised and baptized as a Catholic in the Catholic Church, not because he was a Messianic Jew.
 
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AbbaLove

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Johannes Gutenberg did not print The Complete Jewish Bible. The Complete Jewish Bible was compiled by David Harold Stern, Ph.D. and was published in its entirety in 1998 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc. Johannes Gutenberg printed the Catholic Churches Vulgate in Latin, not German. Bibles printed in the common language were outlawed during this time and if Johannes Gutenberg did print a bible in German, he would have been killed as a heretic.

Johannes Gutenberg bid believe in Jesus as the Messiah because he was born, raised and baptized as a Catholic in the Catholic Church, not because he was a Messianic Jew.

Well, there goest me ~ can't tell the difference between German and Latin :doh:

WHY would a good Catholic boy print a Bible with the idea that others besides just the Catholic hierarchy could read the Holy Bible? The Church Fathers sure didn't commission him to print the Bible as if he was some kind of Michelangelo. Gutenberg may have been the first Messianic One New Man of the 1400s ~ neither Christian nor Jew according to the good Fathers.
Guttenberg Changes History - Judaic Treasures | Jewish Virtual Library

Admit the Germans are pretty smart, but still gotta believe the inventor of the first movable metal typefaces (latin) and the first printing press (from a design principle for an olive and grape press) and the first complete latin translation machine printing of the complete Jewish Bible was of Jewish ancestry. If not then Gutenberg got the idea from someone of Jewish ancestry. :thumbsup:

By the way i said "the complete Jewish Bible" not The Complete Jewish Bible as you imagined. OK, so maybe i should have said the complete Jewish Bible as had previously been pre-arranged and pre-approved by the Catholic Church ;)

 
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