Is Apostasy Irreversible?

[9Rock9]

I'm a Calvinist who's been reading up on Arminianism, particularly the Classical/Redormed Arminianism as originally espoused by Arminius.

I do have one question about conditional security.

Say there is a man who grew up without religion in his life. One day, he hears the gospel and converts, and he legitimately does seem to change by giving up his old ways, doing good works and getting baptized.

One day, he becomes disillusioned with his faith and Christianity and repudiates it. He goes back to his old ways and lifestyle, and denies being a Christian.

After years of this, he feels remorse and wants to come back to Jesus, can he still be restored to the faith, or is he doomed for good?

 

[Albion]

No one is necessarily doomed for good. In the case you cite, we might conclude that he was one of the Elect because the falling away was only temporary. But if we take the free will approach, we'd say that he regretted his foolish decision, repented, and turned back to the Lord and was on the way to salvation.

There's nothing very unusual about that, really. Many of the greatest figures in Christian history have gone though "down" periods of disbelief and/or despair but did later return.

 

[friend of]

So long as you are willing to return, Christ will welcome you

 

[NBB]

There is lots of stories that people that backslid and returned.

 

[Sabertooth]

After years of this, he feels remorse and wants to come back to Jesus, can he still be restored to the faith, or is he doomed for good?

I know of only three verses that speak to apostasy,

• Matthew 12:31-32 (also Mark 3:28-29) "...those who intentionally [not mistakenly] attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to the Devil."
  
• "a seared conscience," 1 Timothy 4:1-2
  
• Hebrews 6:4-6 (Can only happen to those who have attained a high degree of maturity [vv. 4-5], not newbies, the unsaved nor OCD.)

They imply that a true apostate, by definition, would never seek to be restored.
Anyone so convicted still has the Holy Spirit prompting them to repent. (They were only backsliding.)
Once the Holy Spirit stops, there is no one else to do so.

 

[hedrick]

No, there's no reason to think that apostacy is irreversible.

I don't think Calvinism has much to do with this. God knows the elect, but we don't. Falling away doesn't prove that someone is non-elect.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I'm a Calvinist who's been reading up on Arminianism, particularly the Classical/Redormed Arminianism as originally espoused by Arminius.

I do have one question about conditional security.

Say there is a man who grew up without religion in his life. One day, he hears the gospel and converts, and he legitimately does seem to change by giving up his old ways, doing good works and getting baptized.

One day, he becomes disillusioned with his faith and Christianity and repudiates it. He goes back to his old ways and lifestyle, and denies being a Christian.

After years of this, he feels remorse and wants to come back to Jesus, can he still be restored to the faith, or is he doomed for good?

The only verse that suggests that apostasy is irreversible is Hebrews 6:6

Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

But when you look deeper you will see even this verse can not be taken to mean an apostate can not return. Hebrews 6:6 says that the apostate is "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh", but we know that the cross covers a lifetime of sins.

Heb 9:27-28 And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment; so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many,

So the falling away of the apostate is dying in one's sins. Not a leaving and trying to return. As is covered by, verses like:

Jas 5:19-20 My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? ...Eze 33:15 if the wicked restore the pledge, give again that which he had taken by robbery, walk in the statutes of life, committing no iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[tampasteve]

I'm not confident enough with Calvinism to properly say if that fits the teachings. What I can say is that I am an example of apostate returned. I was raised in a Christian home, attended a Christian school, and I was a fervent believer until my late 20s. I had a faith and personal crisis at that point and fell away, officially starting a conversion program for Judaism, part of which included a declaration of apostasy. Signing the declaration was easy at that point. Over time and study I turned back and am a full believer now. That is not the same as a person that "falls for the world", but it clearly is an apostasy turned around.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @tampasteve, (just FYI) Calvinists believe that someone who is truly born again and justified/saved by God will persevere in the faith to the end .. albeit imperfectly .. because God makes sure that we do (we believe that God does what is necessary to "preserve" those of us who are truly His to see us safely through this life to be with Him in Glory .. e.g. 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25; Jude 24-25).

Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints

Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

Section III.–Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

~The Westminster Confession of Faith
​

Happy New Year

God bless you!

--David

 

[9Rock9]

I know of only three verses that speak to apostasy,

• Matthew 12:31-32 (also Mark 3:28-29) "...those who intentionally [not mistakenly] attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to the Devil."
  
• "a seared conscience," 1 Timothy 4:1-2
  
• Hebrews 6:4-6 (Can only happen to those who have attained a high degree of maturity [vv. 4-5], not newbies, the unsaved nor OCD.)

They imply that a true apostate, by definition, would never seek to be restored.
Anyone so convicted still has the Holy Spirit prompting them to repent. (They were only backsliding.)
Once the Holy Spirit stops, there is no one else to do so.

What if someone "intentionally attributes the works of the Holy Spirit"to the devil," but later repents? Or is that impossible?

 

[St_Worm2]

What if someone "intentionally attributes the works of the Holy Spirit"to the devil," but later repents? Or is that impossible?

The Bible speaks to this directly. For instance,

Matthew 12
31 “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, ~either in this age or in the age to come~.”

Mark 3
28 “Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit ~never~ has forgiveness, but is guilty of an ~eternal~ sin”—
30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
​

--David
p.s. - if someone, who believes that they committed this sin, is able to repent of it later, then they only ~thought~ that they were guilty of committing it. Someone who actually commits this particular sin would have to have such a black and hardened heart of stone that they wouldn't care if they committed it (which is why I believe that they are incapable of repenting .. because they have no desire to do so).

 

[Butterball1]

I'm a Calvinist who's been reading up on Arminianism, particularly the Classical/Redormed Arminianism as originally espoused by Arminius.

I do have one question about conditional security.

Say there is a man who grew up without religion in his life. One day, he hears the gospel and converts, and he legitimately does seem to change by giving up his old ways, doing good works and getting baptized.

One day, he becomes disillusioned with his faith and Christianity and repudiates it. He goes back to his old ways and lifestyle, and denies being a Christian.

After years of this, he feels remorse and wants to come back to Jesus, can he still be restored to the faith, or is he doomed for good?

The prodigal son was spiritually alive when he was with the father, spiritually died when he left and went into sin then separated from the father, (Isaiah 59:2) and when he "came to himself" realizing his lost state, the prodigal through self-determination ("I will") returned to the father and became alive again.

 

[ozso]

What if someone "intentionally attributes the works of the Holy Spirit"to the devil," but later repents? Or is that impossible?

I believe doing that makes salvation impossible because they cut off the Holy Spirit. If they repent of that, then they make themselves accessable to the Holy Spirit again.