Is America becoming a police State?

[rambot]

I feel like for most people, the answer to this question is going to be very, very easy no. But I would like to put forward a story that can shed light on this matter:

"The police arrived. My brother went over because his 11 year old son was there and wanted to ensure his son was okay. The police arrested my brother, charged him with resisting arrest, assault on an officer, aggravated battery on an officer. These charges carry a two to twenty year prison sentence. When I asked my brother what happened, he told me that the charges were made up. He asked about his son, the officers (3 of them) engaged him and decided to put him in the squad car. He never touched anyone. He never resisted. Because of the charges, he has no bail, and the bond hearing was set for a month out. I asked, “Were the officer’s bodycams on?” He replied, “No.” They said all their cams were off. I thought to myself. “Oh [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].” Then I replied, “Okay, sit tight, I’ll get you a lawyer.” But to be honest…without any camera footage, my brother was cooked. Now. I love my brother, and I know his character. I know there was no way he attacked three police officers. To be honest, if he did, they’d just shoot him. He’s a big black guy who spends a lot of time at the gym. No one would have challenged his death. But, that’s not who he is. However…SOMETHING must have happened, right? It couldn’t be that he just walked up, the police then put him in the car and charged him. That’s not real. 2 to 20 years in prison. Three officers are saying he attacked them. Aggravated Battery on a police officer. All of this was a month ago…labor day weekend. No video evidence, so it’s their word and his. He’s so [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing cooked. But wait. Remember the part where I said my brother walked over to his neighbor’s house? The neighbor’s ring door camera activated, and his lawyer has not one…but three videos from ring cameras and security cameras covering the entire event. You know what actually happened? Well, I’ll say it this way. As soon as the lawyer told the prosecution that they had camera footage from the ring camera, the prosecution dropped the assault and aggravated battery charge immediately. They downgraded the resisting arrest to a misdemeanor and gave my brother a 50,000 bond, which we immediately posted. They also added another charge (a misdemeanor), and handed the entire case from the felony prosecution to the misdemeanor prosecution who wanted to settle. My brother’s lawyer said…”No.” We want this fast tracked to trial. You’ve only seen one video. I have two more. The footage shows my brother walking up to the officers, them having a very normal conversation, and when my brother asked for his son, the officer told him “No.” My brother continued to ask, and the officer put him in cuffs and put him in the car for “protection of the officers.” That was it. No one even raised their voices. Now. Because this is still in flight, and my brother has plans to sue for wrongful arrest or something…which he’ll lose, I won’t say which department this is, but will post all the details after the case and suite are done. But here is the thing. Do you know what happened to the three police officers who made up the assault and aggravated battery on a police officer charges with the up to 20 year prison sentence? Nothing. Do you know what would have happened to my brother if those ring cameras didn’t kick in? I’m guessing he’d get about 7 years. What’s your guess? That’s the definition of a police state. They can just make something up to throw you in prison…and in the 1 in a 1000 chance you are able to prove your innocence, nothing happens. I still nearly tear up at the thought of how close he came. He’s a father of 4 who works for Mitsubishi building generators as a supervisor. And he nearly lost his freedom…for what. I yelled at him “You know never to engage with the police. You know better you fool.” All he could say is…”but my son was over there.” 30K for a lawyer (gone). 5K for the 50K bond (gone) all because you approached police. I’ll update the results when I can. But more than likely…nothing will happen." Dorand Tortuga, 2024



I am positive you can find stories like this all over the internet. And frankly in a country like the United States these stories should NEVER happen. But in a functioning and health SOCIETY it is the bolded part that will never happen. There wouldn't be discussions of America being a police state if accountability was actually something that happenned when Truly aggregious policework occurred.

They are willing to punish an officer who murders someone off duty but they aren't willing to punish an officer (or plural) who misuse their power to ruin an entire family.


Anyone else have any other examples of truly aggregious police work that is left unpunished?

 

[chevyontheriver]

I feel like for most people, the answer to this question is going to be very, very easy no. But I would like to put forward a story that can shed light on this matter:

View attachment 355765


"The police arrived. My brother went over because his 11 year old son was there and wanted to ensure his son was okay. The police arrested my brother, charged him with resisting arrest, assault on an officer, aggravated battery on an officer. These charges carry a two to twenty year prison sentence. When I asked my brother what happened, he told me that the charges were made up. He asked about his son, the officers (3 of them) engaged him and decided to put him in the squad car. He never touched anyone. He never resisted. Because of the charges, he has no bail, and the bond hearing was set for a month out. I asked, “Were the officer’s bodycams on?” He replied, “No.” They said all their cams were off. I thought to myself. “Oh [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].” Then I replied, “Okay, sit tight, I’ll get you a lawyer.” But to be honest…without any camera footage, my brother was cooked. Now. I love my brother, and I know his character. I know there was no way he attacked three police officers. To be honest, if he did, they’d just shoot him. He’s a big black guy who spends a lot of time at the gym. No one would have challenged his death. But, that’s not who he is. However…SOMETHING must have happened, right? It couldn’t be that he just walked up, the police then put him in the car and charged him. That’s not real. 2 to 20 years in prison. Three officers are saying he attacked them. Aggravated Battery on a police officer. All of this was a month ago…labor day weekend. No video evidence, so it’s their word and his. He’s so [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing cooked. But wait. Remember the part where I said my brother walked over to his neighbor’s house? The neighbor’s ring door camera activated, and his lawyer has not one…but three videos from ring cameras and security cameras covering the entire event. You know what actually happened? Well, I’ll say it this way. As soon as the lawyer told the prosecution that they had camera footage from the ring camera, the prosecution dropped the assault and aggravated battery charge immediately. They downgraded the resisting arrest to a misdemeanor and gave my brother a 50,000 bond, which we immediately posted. They also added another charge (a misdemeanor), and handed the entire case from the felony prosecution to the misdemeanor prosecution who wanted to settle. My brother’s lawyer said…”No.” We want this fast tracked to trial. You’ve only seen one video. I have two more. The footage shows my brother walking up to the officers, them having a very normal conversation, and when my brother asked for his son, the officer told him “No.” My brother continued to ask, and the officer put him in cuffs and put him in the car for “protection of the officers.” That was it. No one even raised their voices. Now. Because this is still in flight, and my brother has plans to sue for wrongful arrest or something…which he’ll lose, I won’t say which department this is, but will post all the details after the case and suite are done. But here is the thing. Do you know what happened to the three police officers who made up the assault and aggravated battery on a police officer charges with the up to 20 year prison sentence? Nothing. Do you know what would have happened to my brother if those ring cameras didn’t kick in? I’m guessing he’d get about 7 years. What’s your guess? That’s the definition of a police state. They can just make something up to throw you in prison…and in the 1 in a 1000 chance you are able to prove your innocence, nothing happens. I still nearly tear up at the thought of how close he came. He’s a father of 4 who works for Mitsubishi building generators as a supervisor. And he nearly lost his freedom…for what. I yelled at him “You know never to engage with the police. You know better you fool.” All he could say is…”but my son was over there.” 30K for a lawyer (gone). 5K for the 50K bond (gone) all because you approached police. I’ll update the results when I can. But more than likely…nothing will happen." Dorand Tortuga, 2024



I am positive you can find stories like this all over the internet. And frankly in a country like the United States these stories should NEVER happen. But in a functioning and health SOCIETY it is the bolded part that will never happen. There wouldn't be discussions of America being a police state if accountability was actually something that happenned when Truly aggregious policework occurred.

They are willing to punish an officer who murders someone off duty but they aren't willing to punish an officer (or plural) who misuse their power to ruin an entire family.


Anyone else have any other examples of truly aggregious police work that is left unpunished?

He should have known better than to engage the police officers at all while in a state of being Black. He should have known. But maybe what he did saved his son's life. Those same officers could have shot his son because they thought he pulled a gun on them or something.

I am less and less inclined to think the police are looking out for the citizens. They do have a thankless job but they seem to be less and less on the side of plain people. I have met a few who have been sterling folks but that isn't a given in any encounter,

 

[rambot]

He should have known better than to engage the police officers at all while in a state of being Black. He should have known. But maybe what he did saved his son's life. Those same officers could have shot his son because they thought he pulled a gun on them or something.

I am less and less inclined to think the police are looking out for the citizens. They do have a thankless job but they seem to be less and less on the side of plain people.

I'm not convinced it's a THANKLESS job. I think a lot of people still do look up to the police. And I don't ascribe to ACAB....BUT bad cops don't get punished sufficiently.

I have met a few who have been sterling folks but that isn't a given in any encounter,

 

[Desk trauma]

I'm not convinced it's a THANKLESS job. I think a lot of people still do look up to the police. And I don't ascribe to ACAB....BUT bad cops don't get punished sufficiently.

If the settlements for their misconduct came from the offending officers pension fund rather than from the taxpayers they would likely stop covering for the bad ones.

 

[rambot]

If the settlements for their misconduct came from the offending officers pension fund rather than from the taxpayers they would likely stop covering for the bad ones.

I an EXTRAORDINARILY confident that there are a LOT of possible solutions and that this is a really good one.

 

[chevyontheriver]

If the settlements for their misconduct came from the offending officers pension fund rather than from the taxpayers they would likely stop covering for the bad ones.

If the settlements were not so extraordinarily limited and the victims could get multiple millions of dollars it might help.

Realistically there wouldn't be much of a way of accessing pension funds anyway.

Passing the costs on to the taxpayers is rude and far too easy to do for the bureaucrats. I think the prospect of bankrupting a city and forcing the sale of assets might just make city officials responsible to the voters. So I'm in favor of big big big court required payouts. Let the bureaucrats and lawyers chew on the risk and political fallout of having to shut down the water department and maybe they would expect better of their police. It's brinksmanship I know but this same approach is working in the Catholic Church. Not without pain.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I feel like for most people, the answer to this question is going to be very, very easy no. But I would like to put forward a story that can shed light on this matter:

View attachment 355765


"The police arrived. My brother went over because his 11 year old son was there and wanted to ensure his son was okay. The police arrested my brother, charged him with resisting arrest, assault on an officer, aggravated battery on an officer. These charges carry a two to twenty year prison sentence. When I asked my brother what happened, he told me that the charges were made up. He asked about his son, the officers (3 of them) engaged him and decided to put him in the squad car. He never touched anyone. He never resisted. Because of the charges, he has no bail, and the bond hearing was set for a month out. I asked, “Were the officer’s bodycams on?” He replied, “No.” They said all their cams were off. I thought to myself. “Oh [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].” Then I replied, “Okay, sit tight, I’ll get you a lawyer.” But to be honest…without any camera footage, my brother was cooked. Now. I love my brother, and I know his character. I know there was no way he attacked three police officers. To be honest, if he did, they’d just shoot him. He’s a big black guy who spends a lot of time at the gym. No one would have challenged his death. But, that’s not who he is. However…SOMETHING must have happened, right? It couldn’t be that he just walked up, the police then put him in the car and charged him. That’s not real. 2 to 20 years in prison. Three officers are saying he attacked them. Aggravated Battery on a police officer. All of this was a month ago…labor day weekend. No video evidence, so it’s their word and his. He’s so [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing cooked. But wait. Remember the part where I said my brother walked over to his neighbor’s house? The neighbor’s ring door camera activated, and his lawyer has not one…but three videos from ring cameras and security cameras covering the entire event. You know what actually happened? Well, I’ll say it this way. As soon as the lawyer told the prosecution that they had camera footage from the ring camera, the prosecution dropped the assault and aggravated battery charge immediately. They downgraded the resisting arrest to a misdemeanor and gave my brother a 50,000 bond, which we immediately posted. They also added another charge (a misdemeanor), and handed the entire case from the felony prosecution to the misdemeanor prosecution who wanted to settle. My brother’s lawyer said…”No.” We want this fast tracked to trial. You’ve only seen one video. I have two more. The footage shows my brother walking up to the officers, them having a very normal conversation, and when my brother asked for his son, the officer told him “No.” My brother continued to ask, and the officer put him in cuffs and put him in the car for “protection of the officers.” That was it. No one even raised their voices. Now. Because this is still in flight, and my brother has plans to sue for wrongful arrest or something…which he’ll lose, I won’t say which department this is, but will post all the details after the case and suite are done. But here is the thing. Do you know what happened to the three police officers who made up the assault and aggravated battery on a police officer charges with the up to 20 year prison sentence? Nothing. Do you know what would have happened to my brother if those ring cameras didn’t kick in? I’m guessing he’d get about 7 years. What’s your guess? That’s the definition of a police state. They can just make something up to throw you in prison…and in the 1 in a 1000 chance you are able to prove your innocence, nothing happens. I still nearly tear up at the thought of how close he came. He’s a father of 4 who works for Mitsubishi building generators as a supervisor. And he nearly lost his freedom…for what. I yelled at him “You know never to engage with the police. You know better you fool.” All he could say is…”but my son was over there.” 30K for a lawyer (gone). 5K for the 50K bond (gone) all because you approached police. I’ll update the results when I can. But more than likely…nothing will happen." Dorand Tortuga, 2024



I am positive you can find stories like this all over the internet. And frankly in a country like the United States these stories should NEVER happen. But in a functioning and health SOCIETY it is the bolded part that will never happen. There wouldn't be discussions of America being a police state if accountability was actually something that happenned when Truly aggregious policework occurred.

They are willing to punish an officer who murders someone off duty but they aren't willing to punish an officer (or plural) who misuse their power to ruin an entire family.


Anyone else have any other examples of truly aggregious police work that is left unpunished?

I am sure we can find a lot of similar stories with no sources on the internet.

 

[RileyG]

He should have known better than to engage the police officers at all while in a state of being Black. He should have known. But maybe what he did saved his son's life. Those same officers could have shot his son because they thought he pulled a gun on them or something.

I am less and less inclined to think the police are looking out for the citizens. They do have a thankless job but they seem to be less and less on the side of plain people. I have met a few who have been sterling folks but that isn't a given in any encounter,

Well said.

 

[Zaha Torte]

He should have known better than to engage the police officers at all while in a state of being Black. He should have known. But maybe what he did saved his son's life. Those same officers could have shot his son because they thought he pulled a gun on them or something.

I am less and less inclined to think the police are looking out for the citizens. They do have a thankless job but they seem to be less and less on the side of plain people. I have met a few who have been sterling folks but that isn't a given in any encounter,

Considering the number of daily interactions that people have with police - your claims are statistically insignificant.

We only hear about the bad.

 

[keith99]

Considering the number of daily interactions that people have with police - your claims are statistically insignificant.

We only hear about the bad.

If it is even superficially as described it is well beyond statistically significant.

3 officers with body cams and all 3 are either turned off or malfunctioning.

If turned off even one is serious misconduct. So, let's go to malfunctioning. If the odds are 1 in 10 that a cam will malfunction then the chances of all 3 malfunctioning would be 1 in 1000. But if the chances are 1 in 10 then there should be thousands of reports within the department of bodycam malfunctions. Anyone care to wager on that? Taking the side that there are thousands of reports of course. I like to win wagers.

 

[rambot]

I am sure we can find a lot of similar stories with no sources on the internet.

Yes. That is correct. There are a lot people who are mistreated by police officers in the United STates of America and it's worthwhile to have a conversation to discuss whether these behaviours are what you'd want in a police force.

It's good to see you acknowledge the problem.

Or did you suddenly NEED the mainstream media to tell you whether something is true or not?

 

[Zaha Torte]

If it is even superficially as described it is well beyond statistically significant.

3 officers with body cams and all 3 are either turned off or malfunctioning.

If turned off even one is serious misconduct. So, let's go to malfunctioning. If the odds are 1 in 10 that a cam will malfunction then the chances of all 3 malfunctioning would be 1 in 1000. But if the chances are 1 in 10 then there should be thousands of reports within the department of bodycam malfunctions. Anyone care to wager on that? Taking the side that there are thousands of reports of course. I like to win wagers.

No evidence has been offered that this story is even legitimate.

How many officer interactions happen daily in the US?

 

[Zaha Torte]

Yes. That is correct. There are a lot people who are mistreated by police officers in the United STates of America and it's worthwhile to have a conversation to discuss whether these behaviours are what you'd want in a police force.

It's good to see you acknowledge the problem.

Or did you suddenly NEED the mainstream media to tell you whether something is true or not?

What I need to even consider any story to be true is anything at all.

 

[rambot]

It always shocks me...SHOCKS ME why people are SO slow to believe victims of anything. Especially Christians.

 

[Zaha Torte]

It always shocks me...SHOCKS ME why people are SO slow to believe victims of anything. Especially Christians.

How can you claim that they are victims if there is no evidence that they are?

 

[Pommer]

I’m not going to attempt to form an opinion based on a second-hand story, (with scant details), is there public access to the ring cameras’ video?

 

[RDKirk]

Considering the number of daily interactions that people have with police - your claims are statistically insignificant.

We only hear about the bad.

Terrorism is "statistically insignificant." So are school shootings. Lots of crimes are "statistically insignificant." We don't ignore them for being "statistically insignificant."

 

[rambot]

Considering the number of daily interactions that people have with police - your claims are statistically insignificant.

We only hear about the bad.

ARe you not paying attention to what is being read?

The issue is NOT that there are bad cops.
That's stupid.
There are people bad at every job in the universe so of COURSE THERE WILL BE BAD POLICEMEN.

Come on guy. Guaranteed there were people in your place of work who you thought were subpar. IT's the nature of humanity; we are not equally good at tasks.

The issue is that there is no consequence for those who perform their jobs poorly. And given the implications involved when police make
mistakes you'd think there should be equal consequences for their misbehaviour.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Terrorism is "statistically insignificant." So are school shootings. Lots of crimes are "statistically insignificant." We don't ignore them for being "statistically insignificant."

Irrelevant to both the comment I was responding to and the point I made.

I never said that we should ignore bad cops because these cases are statistically insignificant - only that we should not start to assume that all or most police officers are racist or that they do not care about citizens or "plain people" - as mentioned by the CF member I was responding to - because the likelihood of encountering a bad cop is very low.

Your comment is not relevant to what I said unless you are arguing that all or most members of certain groups are terrorists or school shooters just because they are members of said group.

 

[Zaha Torte]

ARe you not paying attention to what is being read?

The issue is NOT that there are bad cops.
That's stupid.
There are people bad at every job in the universe so of COURSE THERE WILL BE BAD POLICEMEN.

Come on guy. Guaranteed there were people in your place of work who you thought were subpar. IT's the nature of humanity; we are not equally good at tasks.

The issue is that there is no consequence for those who perform their jobs poorly. And given the implications involved when police make
mistakes you'd think there should be equal consequences for their misbehaviour.

I never said that bad or corrupt cops should not be punished - only that you have provided no evidence that this story is real - and that it is unlikely that we will encounter such misbehavior.