Insane Clown Posse = Good/Bad Influence?

[Shangrila]

I really need to vent about this and get some views on this. Its 5:18am so i might be a lil out of it but i'll try to make as much sense as possible.

Let me start off by telling everyone that I am not a Christian. For the sake of my girlfriend, Jessica, I really wish I were. She's Christian, and I love her to death. We've been together for close to 2 years but she knows that she'll never merry a non-christian. Okay, so now to my problem...

(this may be a long read but I really, really need some input on this.)

For the last 3 years, Insane Clown Posse have been my favorite band. They are the most misconcepted band in the world. Most people judge them by look and name. For those who dont know about ICP, let me give you a real quick rundown on who they are.

ICP came out around 89, and heres' their story. The 2 members that make up the ICP, Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope, claim to have one night been visited by spirits claiming that 6 powerful spirits will rise, and when all have risen, "the end will consume us all".

So in forms of albums, ICP released the 6 Jokers Cards. The first one called Carnival Of Carnage. Basically, it was an album talking about death, killing, etc. Real violent stuff.

Each Jokers Card was similar, but slowly shifted its view. While the first Jokers Card was pure violence and hatred, the next 5, while still violent, focused more on morals and whats right and wrong. Subliminally, ICP was teaching its fans what was right and what was wrong.

ICP's songs are very imaginitive. One song, called "Halls Of Illusions", talks about a ride in the Dark Carnival that straps you down onto a coaster, and pulls you through a long hallway depicting what "could have been" if you werent such a bad person while living. Then it shows how it actually is, and is so tortured.


(By the way, they call their fans Juggalos and Juggalettes)




Blah blah blah, i know you want me to get to the point. Basically, ICPs last Jokers Card, called The Wraith was released and it was nothing like the other Jokers Cards. On the last song of the CD, they say a couple of powerful lyrics. I insist on downloading "The Unveiling" by ICP to feel the power they deliver when saying this.



"Now we been told this Carnival sh*t has touched on many lives,
people have f*ckin sworn to us they too can feel it inside,
what is it that draws you in, this magic that compells you?
We've been waiting 6 f*ckin Jokers Cards to finally tell you,
The messages and hints were there, although most never picked up on'em,
we snuck'em in subliminally, with that wicked sh*t around'em,
we mention more and more of this on every jokers card,
the bottom line always the same, you dont have to look hard,
We wickedly kick it, inflict it, you get it, and freak it, we dont preach it flat out,
cuz some people dont wanna get with ya, they quick to forget you without the make up and get-up,
So we rose the Hatchet do or die, and now Juggalos standing tall,
Afterall 6 have risen, the end of time will consume us all!
It aint got nuthin to do with us! It aint Psychopathic Records!
All we doin' is pointin' sh*t out for you, we in this together!
Who invented Juggalos and Juggalettes and f*ckin Faygo showers?
What about that feeling you get when bumpin our sh*t, whos behind the Juggalo Power?!
This aint no f*ckin fanclub! It aint about makin a buck!
Dont buy our f*ckin action figures, b*tch, I dont give a F*CK!
Truth is we follow God! We've always been behind him!
AND MAY ALL JUGGALOS FIND HIM!"


OOOkay i know you really want me to end this post. Now that you've (hopefully) read everything, i can ask for some help. My girlfriend thinks ICP are bad influences on me, and although teach a good message, has alot of death and violence written all over it. This is where we argue to no end. I know that ICP has alot of violence, but its all "cartoonish". I ignore the violence behind it see the message of what it is.

What are your guys opinions behind ICP and/or the situation i'm in?

(please no "ICP sucks" replies, i've gotten that anywhere else and i'm really hoping that you guys are helpful people. Thanks for your time and allowing me to vent. Whew.

 

[Axver]

Honestly, I've never heard the band so I can't really judge them or anything. However, just because something discusses death and violence, that does NOT make it bad. I'm sick of reading reviews of songs by professing Christians, saying "this is bad because it talks about violence and death". This may come as a revelation to some, but life is not a bed of roses, it's not some happy-happy tra-la-la experience of enjoyment. There's bad stuff out there and it shouldn't just be ignored and pushed away like it doesn't exist.

Right, just thought I'd point that out. And also, before anyone has a go at ICP (why is it whenever I read that, I thought of the Indochinese Communist Party? Thanks a lot, history class) or any other band for swearing, there is no conclusive proof that swearing is sinful or wrong when used correctly (in fact one article I wrote that I put in my LiveJournal I feel shows that swearing is NOT a sin). Now I think in that quote Shangrila provided they went a bit overboard and swore gratuitously, which I disagree with, but really, it's nothing to get heated up about and one shouldn't condemn a band just on that basis.

 

[sr. scholls]

Honestly...I think the band is lame. Sorry...it's not their name or masks or whatever...just honestly do not like their music. There's better secular music out there...

 

[Shangrila]

"Honestly...I think the band is lame. Sorry...it's not their name or masks or whatever...just honestly do not like their music. There's better secular music out there..."

Oh i know, it is tacky. But I like it cuz its so different, and it represents me the best out of all kinds of music. ICPs music is very, very different. Songs like BLAAMMM! and Mad Professor are prime examples of what a common ICP song sounds like. Weird stuff, but interesting.

(BTW, i dont know what secular means....*blushes*)

ICP gives a good message, but through evil ways. The first Jokers Card had no good message behind it, just pure evil. This was to appeal to that audience, and try to change them for the better with later Joker Cards.

Anyone agree on their method?

 

[wonder111]

well I can't say anything about the band, I've seen interviews but don't know their music. All i can say is that God's people are sometimes in the strangest places, where you LEAST expect them. People need to be reached all over, so who knows. Even in the bible, preachers had to become like the people they were trying to reach. (although that obviously doesn't mean doing everything they do)

 

[Deacon]

Uh.....this group....is horrible.....my best frined listens to them when he is mad....but some of htere songs....are just WRONG....but thats me.

 

[sr. scholls]

Sorry...don't mean to sound mean or anything. Really..it's just how I feel. Most bands I don't care for I'm just indifferent about...but this one. Meh...I dunno..it never appealed to me. I've listened to a few of their cd's and it just did not touch me like other music does. It revolted me, but I guess that's the point of it.



Oh...secular music? Heh, it's alright not to know what that is, alot of people don't. Basically it's any music that doesn't represent God or Christians. I do have a bit of a soft spot for it though.

 

[sr. scholls]

And I'm sure that alot of music I listen to you probably think is weird...so it's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Shangrila]

"Uh.....this group....is horrible.....my best frined listens to them when he is mad....but some of htere songs....are just WRONG....but thats me"

Its cool man, its kind of useless debating who sucks and who rocks. ICP's music has a very unique sound, which wont appeal to most people. Except for some songs. "Homies" is gotta be one song by them that EVERYONE has admitted to liking to, so thats cool.

"Oh...secular music? Heh, it's alright not to know what that is, alot of people don't. Basically it's any music that doesn't represent God or Christians. I do have a bit of a soft spot for it though. "

Thanks dude, was kinda curious what it was, hehe

 

[wonder111]

many artists including Lauren Hill believe that secular music can still be for God. It just isn't classified under the Christian music genre

 

[Kelly]

I've never been into them, so I never knew the whole Joker cards aspect, nor the turn from violence to morality in their lyrics. That's really interesting Shangrilla.

People are so quick to judge others and especially their musical tastes. If ICP has really found God, then that's great. I hope they are being honest and not just going for shock value in those lyrics you posted. If it gets one Juggalo to open a bible then that's great.

Color me hopeful but hesitant.

 

[stevieok]

ICP are rubbish man.

They're also very immature....subliminally teaching morals, yeah right!

Do your thang though.

 

[Shangrila]

"....subliminally teaching morals, yeah right!"

Can u prove otherwise?

 

[Faranor]

where do ICP come from? Do they dress up as clowns and stuff on concerts? I think I've seen them in a documentary about "rebellious" music (together with Marilyn Manson and a couple of other). They were talking sh*t about record companies and how much they hated them. But a few months later they were signed on to a major record label...

But I haven't heard the music so I won't comment that. If you only take it as music, there shouldn't be a problem.. But it seems your gf doens't agree with me...

 

[sr. scholls]

Bah. Happy vibes!

 

[oneiric]

Noise pollution.

 

[Inspired]

Ok here's my

I am a Christian see nothing wrong with listening to secular music.

I have listened to ICP, it's not their music or concept I have a problem with, it's their lack of respect. As a rule I don't normally listen to music I wouldn't fell comfortable listening to in my grandmother was in the truck with me, ya know?

I just don't see the need in all the cursing in order to get the message across.

 

[oneiric]

Secular music is fine, but ICP is poop.

 

[babyjenny1976]

Ok.. heres my thoughts .. although i may have to come back and edit it later after i think a bit more! LOL

I was first introduced to ICP thru my brothers (whos 9 yrs younger than me) Friend. Then my brother started listening and it really started bothering me. We were raised in a Christian home. Why would my bro want to listen to what i thought at the time was horrible devil motivated music??!!?!? Well i started listening to it and researching the group... with open eyes and a supious heart. I had to know what it was they got out of it. I started looking that the people who where buying the cds people like my my bros friend who werenot raised in a chirstian home... far from it as a matter of a fact. I started looking at how they talked with the cursing like it was second nature. Well i found that the joker cards were getting progressively more message minded.. then the last jokers card or what we thought was the last one came out "The Wraith" The message on there seemed to be one of a higer power seemingly GOD. ok.. i'm gonna stop rambling now and get to my point. My point is ICP allowed me an insite in to a world of people that i might not have been able to relate to about Christ. The "Family" of Juggalos and Juggalettes are amazing. There are alot of people who i would normally not have talked to simply based on fear judge by their looks. But using ICP as a starting point i have had many conversations with people who i hope can see by my witness more of work of Christ. Not all fans of ICP see the The message of the higher power seemingly CHrist. But for the few that do and the few that come to know him becuase of it i feel that its a good thing. Like someone said earlyier you may be suprised where you find Gods people. And i would have to agree.
Boy i hope that makes sense! Its definately not one of my better posts but i hope it makes some sense.
Jenny

 

[Shangrila]

Jenny, ur'e posts are dead on. Good job

See what I liked about your statements is you can actually relate to both sides (Christian/Juggalo). And you're right, the family like bond between us is incredible. The trust, the love, the willingness to help each other out is very Christ-like. And yes, we do cuss alot, but in todays world it is kinda hard on its own, right?

I'm gonna print out that response and show it to her. Thanks Jenny!