In search of the mysterous Vicarius Filii Dei...

[OntheDL]

I posted this in GC and it was deleted. So I'm posting here for some thoughts...

Vicarius Filii Dei means the vicar (substituting agent) of Son of God in Latin. Its numberic value adds to 666.

What did Jesus say He'll send to represent Him after His ascension? The Holy Spirit.

Catholics have denied the Pope's title has ever been 'Vicarius Filii Dei': representative of Son of God.

There are few Catholic sources we can go to verify its validity.

Lucius Ferraris' Prompta Bibliotheca, 1858 Paris edition, volume 5, column 1828, under "PAPA" (Pope), "Article II."

"Vicarius Filii Dei" is on the 6th line from the bottom.

Lucius Ferraris recounted the donation of Constatine in which Vicarius Filii Dei appeared in reference to the Pope.

Lucius Ferraris' Prompta Bibliotheca carries Pope Gregory XVI's blessing (SANCTISSIMI D. N. GREGORII XVI P.M.) on the cover. It was later republished in Rome in 1890. And the title Vicarius Filii Dei was retained.


"The Pope is considered the man on earth who represents the Son of God, who "takes the place" of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity". ---Crossing the Threshold of Hope, Pope John Paul II. Chapter 1, page 3.

"represents the Son of God" is the direct English translation of Latin "Vicarius Filii Dei".

'What are the letters supposed to be in the pope's crown, and what do they signify, if anything?' The answer, 'The letters inscribed on the pope's mitre are these: Vicarius Filii Dei, which is Latin for, Vicar of the Son of God'. --- Our Sunday Visitors (a Catholic weekly periodicals), April 18, 1915, Vol. 3, Number 51, p3.


"ut sicut B. Petrus in terris vicarius filii Dei videtur esse constitutus, ita et Pontices..." ---Corpus Iuris Canonici, 1879, A collection of Canon Law, published by the order of Pope Gregory XIII. Translates to "Blessed Peter is seen to have been constituted vicar of the Son of God on earth, so the Pontiffs who are the representatives of that same chief of the apostles".

Vicarius Filii Dei appears on the 8th line of the paragraph.


There are many more mentions of Vicarius Filii Dei as Pope's title in Catholic publications.

"Vicar of Christ . . . Title used almost exclusively of the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and, therefore, the one in the Church who particularly takes the place of Christ; but used also of bishops in general and even of priests. First used by the Roman Synod of A.D. 495 to refer to Pope Gelasius; more commonly in Roman curial usage to refer to the Bishop of Rome during the pontificate of Pope Eugene III (1145-1153). Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) asserted explicitly that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ; further defined at the Council of Florence in the Decree for the Greeks (1439) and Vatican Council I in Pastor Aerternus (1870). The Second Vatican Council, in Lumen Gentium , n.27, calls bishops in general "vicars and legates of Christ." All bishops are vicars of Christ for their local churches in their ministerial functions as priest, prophet, and king, as the Pope is for the universal church; the title further denotes they exercise their authority in the Church not by delegation from any other person, but from Christ Himself." --- Catholic Dictionary, Peter M.J. Stravinskas, Editor, published by Our Sunday Visitor, Inc., Huntington, 1993, pp. 484-485.

Here the Pope is also called Vicarius Christi. Vicar of Christ, basically the same as Vicarius Filii Dei.

Vicarius Christi, as John Paul II put it: "The Pope is considered the man on earth who represents the Son of God, who "takes the place" of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity" in Crossing the Threshold of Hope.

"take the place" of Christ is the very definition of the Antichrist.

 

[Jimlarmore]

I was in a very heated debate about this on a theology thread on the internet infidels forum. It lasted for about a month. I did a lot of research back then on this but the specifics of most of it has escaped me. The truth or bottom line is this. There is only one miter/crown of the pope that had that inscription put on it and it is kept under lock and key. It is not available for public viewing. I can't remember the pope's name who wore it but it was back in the 18th century I think. It was a called the beehive miter and was elaborately clad with gold and jewels.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[OntheDL]

There are many, including SDA 'scholars' who questioned the validity of the pope's title.

I hope these documents removed some of the doubts.

It's not essential, but I'd like to see more info on the pope's tiara.

 

[Jimlarmore]

There are many, including SDA 'scholars' who questioned the validity of the pope's title.

I hope these documents removed some of the doubts.

It's not essential, but I'd like to see more info on the pope's tiara.

You're absolutely right my friend. The crown doesn't matter when the literature states his title is exactly what it has been for so long concerning this. You know what is amazing to me is the air of doubt among several of the so called adventists I've dialogued with on this forum.

I've been shocked at the huge sway of beliefs within the church. I'd say based on what I have witnessed so far less than half of the folks on this forum have much faith in EG White at all. I have seen even ministers say they don't accept all of the fundamental beliefs of the church here.

It almost sickened me to have to defend the literalness of the book of Genesis to more than one so called members of our church. I would expect this from formers but not actual members. It' been an eye opening experience to see all of this.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

You're absolutely right my friend. The crown doesn't matter when the literature states his title is exactly what it has been for so long concerning this. You know what is amazing to me is the air of doubt among several of the so called adventists I've dialogued with on this forum.

I've been shocked at the huge sway of beliefs within the church. I'd say based on what I have witnessed so far less than half of the folks on this forum have much faith in EG White at all. I have seen even ministers say they don't accept all of the fundamental beliefs of the church here.

It almost sickened me to have to defend the literalness of the book of Genesis to more than one so called members of our church. I would expect this from formers but not actual members. It' been an eye opening experience to see all of this.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[.chrys.]

In the grand scheme of things, does it even matter what the Pope's title is (or isn't)? Shouldn't our focus be on Christ and what He has done for us?

~Witness

 

[OntheDL]

In the grand scheme of things, does it even matter what the Pope's title is (or isn't)? Shouldn't our focus be on Christ and what He has done for us?

~Witness

Well, I think if it doesn't, I would have to remove Daniel 2,7,8,9, Revelation 12,13,17,18 and a few other chapters from the bible.

God's people are supposed to judge/discern all things especially concerning the endtimes.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

It says "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast". Don't you think we should do our diligent research and pray for understanding?

 

[OntheDL]

You're absolutely right my friend. The crown doesn't matter when the literature states his title is exactly what it has been for so long concerning this. You know what is amazing to me is the air of doubt among several of the so called adventists I've dialogued with on this forum.

I've been shocked at the huge sway of beliefs within the church. I'd say based on what I have witnessed so far less than half of the folks on this forum have much faith in EG White at all. I have seen even ministers say they don't accept all of the fundamental beliefs of the church here.

It almost sickened me to have to defend the literalness of the book of Genesis to more than one so called members of our church. I would expect this from formers but not actual members. It' been an eye opening experience to see all of this.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

The sad truth is that the vast majority of the SDA members don't study and don't know what they believe. So when the doubts come in, they are tossed every which way in the wind. And many of them don't believe the historic adventism.

The only reason why those local members don't come out and openly challenge these foundamental doctrines is because there will be consequences and repercussions.

Here on the internet, there is no accountability.

But I have seen many people who were outsiders (former Atheists and Catholics) studied and became the fiercest defenders of these testimonies.

But I do think the internet forum is good in a way it forces people to study and come off the fence.

So whosoever will...

 

[.chrys.]

Understood. Yep, in the "grand" scheme of things, it does matter. Even so in my opinion, unless our hearts are right with God in the "less grand" scheme of things, it doesn't matter.

(Sorry to have derailed the thread.)
~Witness

 

[Jon0388g]

It' been an eye opening experience to see all of this.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

VERY much so.

Jon

 

[OntheDL]

Understood. Yep, in the "grand" scheme of things, it does matter. Even so in my opinion, unless our hearts are right with God in the "less grand" scheme of things, it doesn't matter.

(Sorry to have derailed the thread.)
~Witness

Sure, it goes without saying. And as we get closer to God, He will reveal (more and more) things to us.

 

[Jimlarmore]

The sad truth is that the vast majority of the SDA members don't study and don't know what they believe. So when the doubts come in, they are tossed every which way in the wind. And many of them don't believe the historic adventism.

The only reason why those local members don't come out and openly challenge these foundamental doctrines is because there will be consequences and repercussions.

Here on the internet, there is no accountability.

But I have seen many people who were outsiders (former Atheists and Catholics) studied and became the fiercest defenders of these testimonies.

But I do think the internet forum is good in a way it forces people to study and come off the fence.

So whosoever will...

Yeah I can relate to this for sure. Since I have discussed/debated the truths in the Bible I have had to readjust some of my staunch beliefs as well. These discussion make one have to really dig into the Bible for the truths that are there. I still accept an investigative judgement but not totally the way the church presents it. Studying God's word made me become an adventist and so far I remain one because of God's word.

I look at grace a litttle differently now since I have debated it with some of the formers and new covenant folks. I still think they are slightly off base and are basically teaching OSAS, they won't admit it but that is the bottom line and the truth of the whole thing. When it comes to how they define sin and the law they miss the mark as well but I'm not as much of a law hound as I used to be because of my in depth study of the Bible on this now. I guess you could say I have almost come to a middle ground concerning the law and grace. I still believe the ten commandments are in force and they are the defining factor for sin, but the very nature of Christ's grace is more encompassing for sinners than I had previously thought.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Adventist Heretic]

I read that W.W. prescott told people to not use this argument early in the 20th centuary, because it was not on the popes miter.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

by the way does any one know where I can pick up a miter.

 

[stray bullet]

Vicarius Filii Dei means the vicar (substituting agent) of Son of God in Latin. Its numberic value adds to 666.

Catholics have denied the Pope's title has ever been 'Vicarius Filii Dei': representative of Son of God.

"represents the Son of God" is the direct English translation of Latin "Vicarius Filii Dei".

"take the place" of Christ is the very definition of the Antichrist.

It should be noted that the title 'Vicarius" has many meanings and translations. The definition you use in English is not the one intended when referring to the Pope and Christ.

Vicarius can mean either acting on behalf or substituting another. The word itself dates back to the Roman Empire, where an official might help, represent or 'substitute' one greater official in his absence.

In this sense, Christ is in Heaven and His authority is supreme. As in the case of secular vicars, the Pope (as Catholics believe) is given a portion of that authority from Christ in guiding the faith until Christ returns.

For any Christian, such a concept is the basis of our faith in reference to the apostles. Christ appointed them, gave them authority so they would guide the faithful until His return. In John 21, we see Christ telling Peter to 'feed His sheep', Peter became the 'vicar', the representative, the 'substitute' of Christ over the flock.

The Pope is not a substitute of Christ in the sense of taking over. The Anti-Christ does not put himself under the authority and direction of Christ, he will not be under Christ.

The term 'vicarius' is merely used to explain apostolic authority in relation to Christ, certainly not in opposition to Christ. The title you are speaking of was never an actual title of the Pope that I recall. Simply because someone used in in explaining the pope, and was not speaking on behalf of the Church, certainly wouldn't make it an official title.
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[stray bullet]

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[OntheDL]

It should be noted that the title 'Vicarius" has many meanings and translations. The definition you use in English is not the one intended when referring to the Pope and Christ.

Vicarius can mean either acting on behalf or substituting another. The word itself dates back to the Roman Empire, where an official might help, represent or 'substitute' one greater official in his absence.

In this sense, Christ is in Heaven and His authority is supreme. As in the case of secular vicars, the Pope (as Catholics believe) is given a portion of that authority from Christ in guiding the faith until Christ returns.

For any Christian, such a concept is the basis of our faith in reference to the apostles. Christ appointed them, gave them authority so they would guide the faithful until His return. In John 21, we see Christ telling Peter to 'feed His sheep', Peter became the 'vicar', the representative, the 'substitute' of Christ over the flock.

The Pope is not a substitute of Christ in the sense of taking over. The Anti-Christ does not put himself under the authority and direction of Christ, he will not be under Christ.

The term 'vicarius' is merely used to explain apostolic authority in relation to Christ, certainly not in opposition to Christ. The title you are speaking of was never an actual title of the Pope that I recall. Simply because someone used in in explaining the pope, and was not speaking on behalf of the Church, certainly wouldn't make it an official title.

Please note the rules of the forum that only the members of this congregation are allowed to debate and comment.

I'm trying to review the evidence here with SDAs. Having you arguing here can cause the mods to close the thread. Please respect the rule and our space.

 

[stray bullet]

Members outside the Congregation are not allowed to debate, which I was respecting.

I was only clarifying what we actually believe and what the title means.If you have a disagreement with what we actually believe and what the title means, feel free to start a topic on GT.

 

[OntheDL]

Members outside the Congregation are not allowed to debate, which I was respecting.

I was only clarifying what we actually believe and what the title means.If you have a disagreement with what we actually believe and what the title means, feel free to start a topic on GT.

I did and it was deleted. That's why I'm posting them here in hopes to discuss among ourselves. I'm not seeking your opinion. I'm looking to review the evidence with SDAs.

 

[djconklin]

by the way does any one know where I can pick up a miter.

You can get a miter saw at the hardware store ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miter_saw
http://hotproducts.alibaba.com/manufacturers-exporters/Miter_Saw.html